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As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
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Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
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one person two natures

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  • Howie
    replied
    Originally posted by utilyan View Post
    Is this the right parable?

    When the prodigal son returned the father grabbed a whip and beat the elder brother to death to quench his blood thirsty wrath.



    Folks need to turn away from their pagan gods and human sacrifice.
    I hope you do that soon.

    Leave a comment:


  • Howie
    replied
    Originally posted by tester View Post

    John 12:41
    Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him
    —————

    that was easy
    Yeah. It's getting easier for me to ignore her, and the rest of them.

    Leave a comment:


  • utilyan
    replied
    Is this the right parable?

    When the prodigal son returned the father grabbed a whip and beat the elder brother to death to quench his blood thirsty wrath.



    Folks need to turn away from their pagan gods and human sacrifice.

    Leave a comment:


  • tester
    replied
    Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

    ?? The Trinity is central to the gospel! Are you speaking with any theological background because it really sounds like you are 'mouthing off' for the sake of it? How do you answer to a seeker who quotes the OT Isaiah 43 11 "I, I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior." or Isaiah 45 5I am the LORD, and there is no other; there is no Godbut Me. I will equip you for battle, though you have not known Me,

    How do you explain to someone how it can be that Jesus is God?
    John 12:41
    Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him
    —————

    that was easy

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Curious Joe View Post

    They certainly would tell you that St Mark knew the Gospel.
    And their water baptism of babies is not just a few droplets on the head.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7k-XcSfXtg

    Leave a comment:


  • Howie
    replied
    Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

    ?? The Trinity is central to the gospel! Are you speaking with any theological background because it really sounds like you are 'mouthing off' for the sake of it? How do you answer to a seeker who quotes the OT Isaiah 43 11 "I, I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior." or Isaiah 45 5I am the LORD, and there is no other; there is no Godbut Me. I will equip you for battle, though you have not known Me,

    How do you explain to someone how it can be that Jesus is God?
    Thanks for your comments, Mercedes.

    Leave a comment:


  • tester
    replied
    Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

    You said that Jesus divine nature didn't die on the Cross. It was off somewhere else at the time. If only God is sinless then Jesus must be God who died for our sin. Instead of insulting the 'theological illiterate' as the nonChristians do.... why not teach me like a true Christian would do. If Jesus sinlessless was an attribute only of His human nature then it means that human beings are already capable of complete sinlessness by their human nature. My understanding has always been confident that Jesus death on the Cross opened up human beings to be partakers of the divine nature.

    2 Pet 1 3 His divine power has given us everything needed for life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Thus he has given us, through these things, his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of lust, and may become participants of the divine nature.

    If God with us did not die so that we might have life as per the above verse.... why was the sacrifice needed at all?

    Could you make your answer properly theologically literate because I have done some theology over the years myself to compliment bible studies and I don't recognise the game of juxtaposing this and that questions. I learnt in Logic class that that was the basis of all good fallacy.
    You said that Jesus divine nature didn't die on the Cross.
    >yes, because the divine cannot die


    It was off somewhere else at the time.
    >I never said that ,, i don't believe it , and it is a false non-sequitur

    If only God is sinless then Jesus must be God who died for our sin.
    >yes Jesus is God, Yes, Jesus is sinless, God cannot die

    Instead of insulting the 'theological illiterate' as the nonChristians do.... why not teach me like a true Christian would do.
    If Jesus sinlessless was an attribute only of His human nature
    >I never said that ,, i don't believe it , and it is false
    >sinlessless was an attribute of His human nature and of His Divine nature

    then it means that human beings are already capable of complete sinlessness by their human nature.
    >no : your presupposition (see above) is false: and your conclusion is false

    My understanding has always been confident that Jesus death on the Cross opened up human beings to be partakers of the divine nature.
    >that is one of the results of the the Atonement
    >that is not the only result and definitely not the main result

    2 Pet 1 3 His divine power has given us everything needed for life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Thus he has given us, through these things, his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may escape from the corruption that is in the world because of lust, and may become participants of the divine nature.


    >>Peter tells us:
    >"He was put to death in the body, but made alive in the spirit, in which He also went and preached to the spirits in prison"
    >Was it a person who was alive or dead that preached to the spirits in prison?
    (please answer)

    If God with us did not die so that we might have life as per the above verse.... why was the sacrifice needed at all?
    > to pay the penalty so we did not have to
    Last edited by tester; 07-15-18, 09:25 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Howie View Post
    That'a not a proof it's not defined in Scripture

    I don't evangelize with the Trinity, but with the Gospel.

    Moreover, I've never met a Catholic who strays from the meme that the incarnation, the Trinity or much of anything else is found in scripture, so what?
    ?? The Trinity is central to the gospel! Are you speaking with any theological background because it really sounds like you are 'mouthing off' for the sake of it? How do you answer to a seeker who quotes the OT Isaiah 43 11 "I, I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior." or Isaiah 45 5I am the LORD, and there is no other; there is no Godbut Me. I will equip you for battle, though you have not known Me,

    How do you explain to someone how it can be that Jesus is God?

    Leave a comment:


  • Curious Joe
    replied
    Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

    You accept the Coptic Orthodox Christians are 'born again'?
    They certainly would tell you that St Mark knew the Gospel.

    Leave a comment:


  • utilyan
    replied
    Originally posted by mica View Post

    God looked upon the sins of the world - with love?

    why don't you look up scriptures for these things? you sure can't depend on the RCC to teach it to you.

    "God looked upon the sins of the world - with love?"

    Yes he did.

    That is Basic Christianity to look on the sins of the world with love.

    Without love you wouldn't even spot any sin at all.


    "why don't you look up scriptures for these things?"

    I sure will:


    Luke 6

    35“But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men. 36“Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.


    You can't destroy evil with hate.


    While you were yet sinners Christ died for you.


    1 peter 3

    8To sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kindhearted, and humble in spirit; 9not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead; for you were called for the very purpose that you might inherit a blessing.


    God is not a angry abusive chimp. He doesn't throw a fit at evil. He provides a perfect solution. God is not the one who has a problem, You are the one who has a problem.


    When we sin our God doesn't throw a fit and beats on Jesus over it. When we sin we don' blame God for not electing us or some other sorry excuse like being totally depraved.

    We recognize God always loves us, and ALWAYS loves Jesus. Not ever HATE Jesus like yours which BTW is a sin.

    When we sin we have no excuse, the fault is our and we don't blame God for it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Howie
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeT View Post


    First, the site is monergistic where I hold to a synergistic relationship with God. But, that's ok, truth exists wherever we find it.

    I toke a brief look at the comments. The author used an a priori argument (he states it outright) - in other words he starts with an assumption that Trinity is in Scripture. If you are going to show that Scripture contains proof of the Trinity it needs to be a posteriori hypothesis, one that the actual language of Scripture justifies the Trinity empirically, that is with evidence of verse that creates a doctrine of the Trinity. It doesn't happen in Scripture. To my knowledge all the proofs are based on the presumption that there is a Trinity taught in Scripture because it is a matter of faith taught by the Catholic Church. A hypothesis using a priori arguments can as easily be used to support Monarchianism, as well as Adoptionism, Apollinarism, Arianism, and Nestorianism along with any number of heresies.

    JoeT
    16 pages, Joe.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mark Rome
    replied
    Originally posted by Howie View Post
    First time you've typed "Christological" in our exchange. ^
    Please refer to post #337. You need to pay more attention.

    Leave a comment:


  • Howie
    replied
    Originally posted by JoeT View Post



    Let me say as your cohorts always respond - "but where is that in the Bible"? After all wasn't that my question?

    JoeT
    No. You challenged me to disprove your assertion.

    Moreover, I provided you with a link to writings on the Trinity. You ignored them, as I predicted. Had you read even one. You would have found your requested scriptural proof, but you didn't, because you din't really care to find scriptural proof.

    Leave a comment:


  • Howie
    replied
    Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

    If the Trinity is clearly defined in Scripture how do you account for all the controversy and debate about it from the earliest days?
    That'a not a proof it's not defined in Scripture

    Originally posted by Mercedes
    These controversies are recorded and preserved by the Church to guard against disunity on the principle. How is it that it is so clear to you but not to the learned theologians involved. I know that you mock Mark Romes qualifications and claim to know everything with only a bible to go by, but if you are going to evangelise on that basis you have to be prepared to explain the natural questions the ignorant 'unsaved' ask about the meaning of Trinity.
    I don't evangelize with the Trinity, but with the Gospel.

    Moreover, I've never met a Catholic who strays from the meme that the incarnation, the Trinity or much of anything else is found in scripture, so what?

    Leave a comment:


  • Howie
    replied
    Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

    Where did I say it wasn't a Christological term?
    First time you've typed "Christological" in our exchange. ^

    Originally posted by Mark Rome
    The term hypostasis wasn't just made up at Chalcedon.
    Of course it wasn't. It's a common Greek word.

    Originally posted by Mark Rome
    ]Once again, for the last time because I hate repeating myself, hypostasis came much earlier in regards to the Trinity. This is how we understand the Persons of the Trinity.
    I hope ypu keep your word, Mark. I expext to hear more from you about this.


    Leave a comment:

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