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Circumcision vs Roman Catholic Baptism

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  • Raynebeau
    started a topic Circumcision vs Roman Catholic Baptism

    Circumcision vs Roman Catholic Baptism

    The Jews under the OT taught that an individual entered into God's spiritual covenant and became a child of God through the rite of physical circumcision. This was a teaching repudiated by the apostle Paul, who taught that though one may be circumcised physically and made part of the visible nation, that did not guarantee a spiritual circumcision or part in God's spiritual kingdom. This is why Paul says that not all Israel (those who are physically circumcised) are true Israel (those who have been circumcised spiritually in their hearts). Paul points out that new life is not the result of a physical rite, but of faith. Abraham was justified and regenerated before circumcision was instituted. Physical circumcision was meant to signify circumcision of the heart by the Holy Spirit. Just as the Roman Catholic Church teaches that baptism by water is the means of regeneration and forgiveness of sins. This is simply another error taught by the RCC just the same as that of the Jews under the OT dispensation when they were taught that an individual entered into God's spiritual covenant and became a child of God through the rite of physical circumcision.

  • ramcam2
    replied
    Originally posted by mica View Post
    no they aren't. post the verse (copy and paste from a bible) for the verse you are referencing.

    KJV...John 3: 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    Leave a comment:


  • mica
    replied
    Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post
    here are your words.....


    ...the Holy Spirit baptizes us into Christ. That's when one is born again.
    water baptism follows...



    and here are the words in the bible....
    a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost


    the bible is very clear..... born again of water and the holy ghost,

    not holy spirit baptizes, then born again, and water baptism follows.
    no they aren't. post the verse (copy and paste from a bible) for the verse you are referencing.


    Leave a comment:


  • ramcam2
    replied
    Originally posted by mica View Post
    who's changing words in the bible? look it up. and don't add words to it.

    yes, it is explicit... and it doesn't say what you've posted above.


    here are your words.....


    ...the Holy Spirit baptizes us into Christ. That's when one is born again.

    water baptism follows...



    and here are the words in the bible....

    a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost



    the bible is very clear..... born again of water and the holy ghost,

    not holy spirit baptizes, then born again, and water baptism follows.

    Leave a comment:


  • Open Heart
    replied
    Originally posted by mica View Post
    that sounds very catholic.
    Since when? Please document your answer from authoritative Catholic sources such as the Catechism.

    Leave a comment:


  • Open Heart
    replied
    Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
    The Jews under the OT taught that an individual entered into God's spiritual covenant and became a child of God through the rite of physical circumcision. This was a teaching repudiated by the apostle Paul, who taught that though one may be circumcised physically and made part of the visible nation, that did not guarantee a spiritual circumcision or part in God's spiritual kingdom. This is why Paul says that not all Israel (those who are physically circumcised) are true Israel (those who have been circumcised spiritually in their hearts). Paul points out that new life is not the result of a physical rite, but of faith. Abraham was justified and regenerated before circumcision was instituted. Physical circumcision was meant to signify circumcision of the heart by the Holy Spirit. Just as the Roman Catholic Church teaches that baptism by water is the means of regeneration and forgiveness of sins. This is simply another error taught by the RCC just the same as that of the Jews under the OT dispensation when they were taught that an individual entered into God's spiritual covenant and became a child of God through the rite of physical circumcision.
    Physical circumcision was never meant to signify being spiritually saved. It means one thing: being brought into the Original Covenant God made with Israel (Obey my commandments/I will be your God and here is the Promised Land). If a circumcised person sins, they are still a Jew; they are simply a Jewish sinner.

    Baptism is similar in that it brings us into covenant with God, but this time it is the New Covenant, meaning that Christ died for our sins and if we repent and believe we will have eternal life. As circumcision made Jews part of Israel, baptism makes us part of Ekklesia. However, there is no guarantee that such salvation, once gained, will be maintained. We must persevere to the end. There will be those who will fall into serious sin and never repent, despite their baptism, and they will be lost to heaven.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mark Rome
    replied
    Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post

    Her comments demonstrate she has no real faith. Shes bound to legalism, not Christ.
    What would you tell this woman who called? Would her persistent sin keep her out of the Kingdom if she doesn't repent?

    Leave a comment:


  • logix
    replied
    Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post

    Are you saying you can fornicate as much as you want? Thats sad.
    No. Fornication is a mortal sin in Catholicism. Does your denomination teach that believers who fornicate go to heaven?

    Leave a comment:


  • Nondenom40
    replied
    Originally posted by logix View Post

    Are you saying she doesn't have real faith because she doesn't think she can sin as much as she wants without jeopardizing her salvation?

    You think a woman with "real faith" would not worry that her fornication would keep her from going to heaven, right?
    Are you saying you can fornicate as much as you want? Thats sad.

    Leave a comment:


  • logix
    replied
    Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post

    Her comments demonstrate she has no real faith. Shes bound to legalism, not Christ.
    Are you saying she doesn't have real faith because she doesn't think she can sin as much as she wants without jeopardizing her salvation?

    You think a woman with "real faith" would not worry that her fornication would keep her from going to heaven, right?

    Leave a comment:


  • Geralt_De_Sales
    replied
    Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
    The Jews under the OT taught that an individual entered into God's spiritual covenant and became a child of God through the rite of physical circumcision. This was a teaching repudiated by the apostle Paul, who taught that though one may be circumcised physically and made part of the visible nation, that did not guarantee a spiritual circumcision or part in God's spiritual kingdom. This is why Paul says that not all Israel (those who are physically circumcised) are true Israel (those who have been circumcised spiritually in their hearts). Paul points out that new life is not the result of a physical rite, but of faith. Abraham was justified and regenerated before circumcision was instituted. Physical circumcision was meant to signify circumcision of the heart by the Holy Spirit. Just as the Roman Catholic Church teaches that baptism by water is the means of regeneration and forgiveness of sins. This is simply another error taught by the RCC just the same as that of the Jews under the OT dispensation when they were taught that an individual entered into God's spiritual covenant and became a child of God through the rite of physical circumcision.
    1 Peter 3:21
    And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves younot as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

    Colossians 2:11-12
    11 In him also you were circumcised with a spiritual circumcision,[d] by putting off the body of the flesh in the circumcision of Christ; 12 when you were buried with him in baptism, you were also raised with him through faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead. 13

    Romans 6:4
    Therefore we have been buried with him by baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.

    Sorry, what was that about what the Church teaches? Oh wait, I know some people who have something to say about baptism too:

    “And with reason; for as we are all from earth and die in Adam, so being regenerated from above of water and Spirit, in the Christ we are all quickened.” Athanasius, Discourse Against the Arians, III:33 (A.D. 360).

    “It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated through the agency of another’s will when that infant is brought to Baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn…’Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit.’ The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was in one Adam.” Augustine, To Boniface, Epistle 98:2 (A.D. 408).

    Look, I'm sorry that your interpretation doesn't match the Scripture or historical Christianity, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut baptism regenerates.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nondenom40
    replied
    Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

    True faith means one doesn't sin? Those with "true faith" never live in sin?
    True faith means I can confess where I'm sitting. There is zero necessity to run to a priest or schedule my repentance. Any true believer knows they can go straight to God. She's been brainwashed into thinking your man made sacraments are necessary, not her relationship with Jesus.

    Go ahead, twist that.
    Last edited by Nondenom40; 07-13-18, 02:42 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nondenom40
    replied
    Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post

    This is what I asked you to clarify, "You're heart just goes out to her because she needs true salvation, not a ball and chain and the legalism of the rcc."

    Seems you don't want to explain true salvation for a Christian woman who is living in sin. I suggest to not get a call in talk show.
    This was your first twisting of my post.
    Originally posted by Mark Rome View Post
    Your heart goes out to her because she doesn't realize that she can continue in sin and still be saved? Hmm.
    Which of course is nowhere near what I said.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mark Rome
    replied
    Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post

    Her comments demonstrate she has no real faith. Shes bound to legalism, not Christ.
    True faith means one doesn't sin? Those with "true faith" never live in sin?

    Leave a comment:


  • Mark Rome
    replied
    Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post

    This is me clarifying myself.

    This is you changing the subject.
    This is what I asked you to clarify, "You're heart just goes out to her because she needs true salvation, not a ball and chain and the legalism of the rcc."

    Seems you don't want to explain true salvation for a Christian woman who is living in sin. I suggest to not get a call in talk show.

    Leave a comment:

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