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Not Following Up On The Penance Given

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Atemi View Post

    If you died this very moment, do you believe you are guaranteed eternal life because you are in the kingdom of Christ, are redeemed and forgiven?

    Or do you believe you may actually still go to Hell forever because you may still be under the power of darkness?

    ...
    Yes.

    No.



    1 Thessalonians 4:14
    For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died.
    “Have Jesus always for your patron, His Cross for a mast on which you must spread your resolutions as a sail. Your anchor shall be a profound confidence in Him, and you shall sail prosperously.” ― St. Francis de Sales

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Geralt_De_Sales View Post
      Yes.
      So you believe you are guaranteed eternal life and you merited Heaven because of your good works if you died this moment?

      No.
      It is not possible that you could be judged unworthy and condemned to Hell by God if you died this very moment?

      ...
      "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."- John F. Kennedy

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Atemi View Post

        So you believe you are guaranteed eternal life and you merited Heaven because of your good works if you died this moment?
        Nope! I believe because Jesus Christ saved me by his life, death and Resurrection. Whatever good I do in this life comes from Him.
        If I abide in Christ, I am promised eternal life.


        Originally posted by Atemi
        It is not possible that you could be judged unworthy and condemned to Hell by God if you died this very moment?
        No one is "worthy" to go to Heaven. It's not about being worthy or unworthy. Look at Matthew 25:31-46 and tell me; how were the sheep judged?

        “Have Jesus always for your patron, His Cross for a mast on which you must spread your resolutions as a sail. Your anchor shall be a profound confidence in Him, and you shall sail prosperously.” ― St. Francis de Sales

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Geralt_De_Sales View Post
          So you believe you are guaranteed eternal life and you merited Heaven because of your good works if you died this moment?

          Nope!
          But Catholic teaching is that sinners must merit Heaven with their works.

          Why do you deny Catholic teaching?

          I believe because Jesus Christ saved me by his life, death and Resurrection.
          So every time your fellow Catholics mock Christ followers here for "judging themselves saved"....you never say a word.

          Why would you remain silent in the face of such a falsehood from your fellow church members?

          If I abide in Christ, I am promised eternal life.
          Agreed.

          Have you judged yourself to be abiding in Christ right now so as to be guaranteed eternal life if you died this moment?

          ...

          "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."- John F. Kennedy

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Atemi View Post

            The Roman Catholic Church officially denies this to be true when it comes to your priests.

            So why post it as if you believe it or something?
            1456 Confession to a priest is an essential part of the sacrament of Penance: "All mortal sins of which penitents after a diligent self-examination are conscious must be recounted by them in confession, even if they are most secret and have been committed against the last two precepts of the Decalogue; for these sins sometimes wound the soul more grievously and are more dangerous than those which are committed openly." When Christ's faithful strive to confess all the sins that they can remember, they undoubtedly place all of them before the divine mercy for pardon. But those who fail to do so and knowingly withhold some, place nothing before the divine goodness for remission through the mediation of the priest, "for if the sick person is too ashamed to show his wound to the doctor, the medicine cannot heal what it does not know."
            Maybe do research before trying to argue? I would recommend it!


            Originally posted by Atemi
            That is true, but your priests are not God, no matter the lies they have told you.
            We don't believe they are God. There is only One God, who forgives us of our sins.
            “Have Jesus always for your patron, His Cross for a mast on which you must spread your resolutions as a sail. Your anchor shall be a profound confidence in Him, and you shall sail prosperously.” ― St. Francis de Sales

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Atemi View Post

              But Catholic teaching is that sinners must merit Heaven with their works.

              Why do you deny Catholic teaching?
              It's not my fault that you, again, don't know what Catholics teach.

              Originally posted by Catechism of the Catholic Church
              2008 The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man's free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man's merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.
              Originally posted by Atemi
              So every time your fellow Catholics mock Christ followers here for "judging themselves saved"....you never say a word.

              Why would you remain silent in the face of such a falsehood from your fellow church members?
              It's not false. Do you abide in Christ by keeping his commandments?

              Originally posted by Atemi
              Agreed.

              Have you judged yourself to be abiding in Christ right now so as to be guaranteed eternal life if you died this moment?
              5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive commendation from God.

              4 Whoever says, “I have come to know him,” but does not obey his commandments, is a liar, and in such a person the truth does not exist; 5 but whoever obeys his word, truly in this person the love of God has reached perfection. By this we may be sure that we are in him: 6 whoever says, “I abide in him,” ought to walk just as he walked.

              Do you keep the commandments of Christ?


              “Have Jesus always for your patron, His Cross for a mast on which you must spread your resolutions as a sail. Your anchor shall be a profound confidence in Him, and you shall sail prosperously.” ― St. Francis de Sales

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Geralt_De_Sales View Post

                Not at all. Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross and forgiveness of sins are inextricably linked, according to Colossians 1:
                And if the Roman Catholic adds enough of THEIR OWN EFFORT AND "GOOD WORKS" to the "finished work" of Jesus, they MIGHT make it into heaven. After being "purified" in purgatory sufficiently, of course

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                  And if the Roman Catholic adds enough of THEIR OWN EFFORT AND "GOOD WORKS" to the "finished work" of Jesus, they MIGHT make it into heaven. After being "purified" in purgatory sufficiently, of course
                  Bob, none of our effort or works are "added" to the finished work of Jesus. Rather, they are a part of the finished work:

                  John 15:5
                  I am the vine, you are the branches. Those who abide in me and I in them bear much fruit, because apart from me you can do nothing.

                  John 15:10
                  If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love.

                  As to your purgatory remark; it is simply the completion of being sanctified. Do you believe that when you die, you will be 100% sanctified? Or are you human, and need the grace of God to sanctify you before being received in Heaven?

                  “Have Jesus always for your patron, His Cross for a mast on which you must spread your resolutions as a sail. Your anchor shall be a profound confidence in Him, and you shall sail prosperously.” ― St. Francis de Sales

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Geralt_De_Sales View Post
                    Do you believe that when you die, you will be 100% sanctified?
                    OF COURSE I DO. There's ABSOLUTLY NOTHING in the Biblical record indicating any necessity of Postmortem torture to make you "Good enough" to enter heaven. Purgatorial Sanctification is nothing but a pagan extortion plan to spring on the grieving family of the dearly departed. Just another of Rome's Cash Cow extortions. It's PURE BLASPHEMY.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Geralt_De_Sales View Post
                      But Catholic teaching is that sinners must merit Heaven with their works.

                      Why do you deny Catholic teaching?


                      It's not my fault that you, again, don't know what Catholics teach.
                      Let me quote a Catholic authority on RC teaching with your sect's official imprimatur:

                      "It is universally accepted dogma of the Catholic Church that man, in union with the grace of the Holy Spirit must merit heaven by his good works...Through these and similar works we can actually merit heaven as our reward...We have shown that according to Holy Scripture the Christian can actually merit heaven for himself by his good works"

                      "Heaven must be fought for; we have to earn heaven"
                      (Dogmatic Theology for the Laity, Rev. Matthias Premm, pp. 261-264, Imprimatur)

                      Please note that none of your posts come with that same imprimatur.

                      So every time your fellow Catholics mock Christ followers here for "judging themselves saved"....you never say a word.

                      Why would you remain silent in the face of such a falsehood from your fellow church members?


                      It's not false.
                      How come you can judge yourself saved but others cannot?

                      Do you keep the commandments of Christ?
                      I fail all the time and I am not perfect as Christ commanded. Thank the Lord He saves sinners!

                      Do you think you keep the commandments ENOUGH to merit Heaven with your works?

                      ...




                      "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."- John F. Kennedy

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Atemi View Post

                        Let me quote a Catholic authority on RC teaching with your sect's official imprimatur:

                        "It is universally accepted dogma of the Catholic Church that man, in union with the grace of the Holy Spirit must merit heaven by his good works...Through these and similar works we can actually merit heaven as our reward...We have shown that according to Holy Scripture the Christian can actually merit heaven for himself by his good works"

                        "Heaven must be fought for; we have to earn heaven"
                        (Dogmatic Theology for the Laity, Rev. Matthias Premm, pp. 261-264, Imprimatur)

                        Please note that none of your posts come with that same imprimatur.
                        Two things; one, are you familiar with what an imprimatur is? If so, can you explain it?
                        And two, those good works come from Christ, so yes they can merit Heaven. This is why we see the sheep judged by their works in Matthew 25:31-46.

                        Originally posted by Atemi
                        How come you can judge yourself saved but others cannot?
                        On the contrary, they can and do. However, we also know that we don't live "in this very second you die" moments, we live in the future. That's why the Bible clearly says we are saved, are being saved, and will be saved......as long as we abide in Christ, or we'll be cut off and won't be saved.

                        Originally posted by Atemi
                        I fail all the time and I am not perfect as Christ commanded. Thank the Lord He saves sinners!
                        Agreed! Now you're getting the Catholic view of salvation.

                        Originally posted by Atemi
                        Do you think you keep the commandments ENOUGH to merit Heaven with your works?
                        Yes, because Christ is enough. All good works are done by Him and were set for us to do by Him (Ephesians 2:10).

                        “Have Jesus always for your patron, His Cross for a mast on which you must spread your resolutions as a sail. Your anchor shall be a profound confidence in Him, and you shall sail prosperously.” ― St. Francis de Sales

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Geralt_De_Sales View Post
                          And two, those good works come from Christ, so yes they can merit Heaven. This is why we see the sheep judged by their works in Matthew 25:31-46.
                          I said it was Catholic teaching that sinners merit Heaven with their works, and you DENIED that as false!

                          LOL.

                          Me: "But Catholic teaching is that sinners must merit Heaven with their works."

                          You: "It's not my fault that you, again, don't know what Catholics teach."

                          So first you say I don't know Catholic teaching....but THEN...you agree with what I said that sinners merit Heaven with their works.

                          So which time were you telling the truth and which time were you lying?

                          That's why the Bible clearly says we are saved, are being saved, and will be saved......as long as we abide in Christ, or we'll be cut off and won't be saved.
                          Hahahahahahaha.

                          We are being are saved, are being saved, and....maybe sorta possibly will be saved?

                          LOL!

                          I fail all the time and I am not perfect as Christ commanded. Thank the Lord He saves sinners!

                          Agreed! Now you're getting the Catholic view of salvation.
                          So you DO NOT keep Christ's commandment to be perfect?

                          ...
                          "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."- John F. Kennedy

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Atemi View Post

                            I said it was Catholic teaching that sinners merit Heaven with their works, and you DENIED that as false!

                            LOL.
                            Yes, I did. Look below:

                            2008 The merit of man before God in the Christian life arises from the fact that God has freely chosen to associate man with the work of his grace. The fatherly action of God is first on his own initiative, and then follows man's free acting through his collaboration, so that the merit of good works is to be attributed in the first place to the grace of God, then to the faithful. Man's merit, moreover, itself is due to God, for his good actions proceed in Christ, from the predispositions and assistance given by the Holy Spirit.

                            Originally posted by Atemi
                            Me: "But Catholic teaching is that sinners must merit Heaven with their works."

                            You: "It's not my fault that you, again, don't know what Catholics teach."

                            So first you say I don't know Catholic teaching....but THEN...you agree with what I said that sinners merit Heaven with their works.

                            So which time were you telling the truth and which time were you lying?
                            I don't believe you've addressed my above arguments. So yes, you do not know Catholic teaching. Please address my arguments before continuing.

                            Originally posted by Atemi
                            Hahahahahahaha.

                            We are being are saved, are being saved, and....maybe sorta possibly will be saved?

                            LOL!
                            As usual, you are incorrect. We are saved, are being saved, and will be saved, provided we abide in Christ. Otherwise, we are cut off and will not be saved.

                            Originally posted by Atemi
                            So you DO NOT keep Christ's commandment to be perfect?
                            As you rightly said, thank God Christ came to save sinners!
                            “Have Jesus always for your patron, His Cross for a mast on which you must spread your resolutions as a sail. Your anchor shall be a profound confidence in Him, and you shall sail prosperously.” ― St. Francis de Sales

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Geralt_De_Sales View Post
                              I said it was Catholic teaching that sinners merit Heaven with their works, and you DENIED that as false!

                              LOL.


                              Yes, I did.
                              I know you did. That is why I said it!

                              LOL.

                              But you ALSO said sinners merit Heaven with their works!

                              "And two, those good works come from Christ, so yes they can merit Heaven."

                              So is it...

                              1. Sinners merit Heaven with their works?

                              OR

                              2. Sinners DO NOT merit Heaven with their works?


                              Is this too hard for you?

                              Me: "But Catholic teaching is that sinners must merit Heaven with their works."

                              You: "It's not my fault that you, again, don't know what Catholics teach."

                              So first you say I don't know Catholic teaching....but THEN...you agree with what I said that sinners merit Heaven with their works.

                              So which time were you telling the truth and which time were you lying?


                              I don't believe you've addressed my above arguments.
                              You did not make any "arguments."

                              Which time were you not telling the truth, Gerault?

                              We are being are saved, are being saved, and....maybe sorta possibly will be saved?

                              As usual, you are incorrect. We are saved, are being saved, and will be saved, provided we abide in Christ.
                              You just repeated what I said.

                              Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

                              Otherwise, we are cut off and will not be saved.
                              So you maybe possibly will be saved....just as I said.

                              Got it.

                              So you DO NOT keep Christ's commandment to be perfect?

                              As you rightly said, thank God Christ came to save sinners!
                              If you do not keep Christ's commandment, why did you just post that you keep His commandments enough to merit Heaven?

                              How on earth did you conclude that willfully NOT keeping His commandment is enough to merit Heaven?

                              Wow!

                              ...




                              "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."- John F. Kennedy

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Atemi View Post

                                I know you did. That is why I said it!

                                LOL.

                                But you ALSO said sinners merit Heaven with their works!

                                "And two, those good works come from Christ, so yes they can merit Heaven."

                                So is it...

                                1. Sinners merit Heaven with their works?

                                OR

                                2. Sinners DO NOT merit Heaven with their works?


                                Is this too hard for you?
                                CCC 2007 "With regard to God, there is no strict right to any merit on the part of man. Between God and us there is an immeasurable inequality, for we have received everything from him, our Creator." http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P70.HTM

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