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Does this make any sense at all?

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  • Does this make any sense at all?

    According to The Twentieth Century Encyclopedia of Catholicism regarding the sacraments of penance and matrimony:

    "Absolution must be given orally, and not in writing, or by the use of signs. Hence a priest who is entirely dumb cannot validly absolve. The will of Christ, as interpreted by the [Roman Catholic] Church, is that the form of the sacrament should be expressed in words. This is one of several ways in which the sacraments of penance and matrimony differ radically, since the form of the latter may be validly expressed by signs."

    Volume 51
    Section 5: The Life of Faith


    RC's do know God, but the Bible indicates that it is a knowledge in condemnation, a knowledge enabling them to know things about themselves and the world around them, even though they suppress the truth of God which makes such knowledge possible.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
    According to The Twentieth Century Encyclopedia of Catholicism regarding the sacraments of penance and matrimony:

    "Absolution must be given orally, and not in writing, or by the use of signs. Hence a priest who is entirely dumb cannot validly absolve. The will of Christ, as interpreted by the [Roman Catholic] Church, is that the form of the sacrament should be expressed in words. This is one of several ways in which the sacraments of penance and matrimony differ radically, since the form of the latter may be validly expressed by signs."

    Volume 51
    Section 5: The Life of Faith

    Makes no sense. All made up. Never was such a thing going on in NT times. It was invented purely to control Catholics.

    They are now stuck.

    Jesus came to unstick us, make us free. He said he would make us free and not stick us. Poor Catholics are stuck and not

    the rest of us. Does anyone wonder why we reject the Catholic church?


    Dictionary of Biblical Theology
    Xavier Leon-Dufour p 88

    "The practice of disclosing ones sins to a man who has received the power
    to forgive them does not seem to be attested to in the NT; both fraternal
    correction and community admonitions are intended to make the guilty one
    acknowledge his external faults. (Mt 18:15) The mutual confession
    recommended in Jm 5:15 is perhaps inspired by a Jewish practice, and 1Jn 1:9
    does not give the precise form that the necessary admonition has to take."

    "This work will prove of inestimable value to anyone who reads the bible"
    Father Roland Murphy, Catholic Bible Quarterly

    "Trent was defining that extreme unction met the criterion of "sacrament"
    that had developed in the Middle Ages. It did not define that the annointing
    of the sick was understood as a sacrament in the 1st century; and indeed
    we have no evidence that the term sacrament was used that early. Similarly,
    it was defining that this sacred action should be administered by those
    who in the 16th-century church (and long before) constituted clergy, namely,
    ordained priests, and not simply senior members of the lay community.
    Trent did not define (although those present at the council may have assumed)
    that when James was written there were clearly established roles of bishop.
    priests, and rites of ordination."
    An Introduction to the New Testament, Raymond E. Brown, Imprimatur

    No ordained priests in NT days. Why should we believe their stuff that makes no sense?

    JohnR

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by highrigger View Post
      "This work will prove of inestimable value to anyone who reads the bible"
      Father Roland Murphy, Catholic Bible Quarterly
      so then take Father Murphy's advice and read the Bible, too, otherwise the work you reference will be of no value
      Though the godless poured poison in to your veins, your heart still beats with love for Christ,
      O bishop Theodore, martyred father, who now raise your prayers before the Throne of God.

      [Kontakion of Blessed Theodore (Byzantine-Ruthenian usage)]

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
        According to The Twentieth Century Encyclopedia of Catholicism regarding the sacraments of penance and matrimony:

        "Absolution must be given orally, and not in writing, or by the use of signs. Hence a priest who is entirely dumb cannot validly absolve. The will of Christ, as interpreted by the [Roman Catholic] Church, is that the form of the sacrament should be expressed in words. This is one of several ways in which the sacraments of penance and matrimony differ radically, since the form of the latter may be validly expressed by signs."

        Volume 51
        Section 5: The Life of Faith

        I hadn't known that but it makes complete sense to me. Hearing the words of absolution in confession in indescribable. It's like being granted freedom from imprisonment.
        The crones love their cliques!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
          According to The Twentieth Century Encyclopedia of Catholicism regarding the sacraments of penance and matrimony:

          "Absolution must be given orally, and not in writing, or by the use of signs. Hence a priest who is entirely dumb cannot validly absolve. The will of Christ, as interpreted by the [Roman Catholic] Church, is that the form of the sacrament should be expressed in words. This is one of several ways in which the sacraments of penance and matrimony differ radically, since the form of the latter may be validly expressed by signs."

          Volume 51
          Section 5: The Life of Faith

          To tell you the truth-- I learned something! I didn't know that a priest could only validly absolve by saying the words and could not sign them, etc.

          To answer your question-- yes it makes sense, but I don't really care. Of all the things that keep me up at night--this ain't one of them. There are far more important questions we could be debating.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
            According to The Twentieth Century Encyclopedia of Catholicism regarding the sacraments of penance and matrimony:

            "Absolution must be given orally, and not in writing, or by the use of signs. Hence a priest who is entirely dumb cannot validly absolve. The will of Christ, as interpreted by the [Roman Catholic] Church, is that the form of the sacrament should be expressed in words. This is one of several ways in which the sacraments of penance and matrimony differ radically, since the form of the latter may be validly expressed by signs."

            Volume 51
            Section 5: The Life of Faith

            How does a deaf priest say mass? Can Christ be called down from heaven and into the bread in sign? Does Christ know sign?
            Have I now become your enemy because I tell you the truth ? Gal 4:16

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Calsgal View Post

              How does a deaf priest say mass? Can Christ be called down from heaven and into the bread in sign? Does Christ know sign?
              Should we all pray in Aramaic?
              Though the godless poured poison in to your veins, your heart still beats with love for Christ,
              O bishop Theodore, martyred father, who now raise your prayers before the Throne of God.

              [Kontakion of Blessed Theodore (Byzantine-Ruthenian usage)]

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

                I hadn't known that but it makes complete sense to me. Hearing the words of absolution in confession in indescribable. It's like being granted freedom from imprisonment.
                What is indescribable is knowing that If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

                I find it odd that Catholics long for and need a "feeling" they get from a mere man to feel like they were granted 'freedom from imprisonment".....and to describe that is indescribable is sad to me.

                FYI, we have already been freed and are no longer 'slaves to sin'....by Christ Himself.





                ~~~My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My Father's hand~~~

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by 4Him View Post

                  What is indescribable is knowing that If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

                  I find it odd that Catholics long for and need a "feeling" they get from a mere man to feel like they were granted 'freedom from imprisonment".....and to describe that is indescribable is sad to me.

                  FYI, we have already been freed and are no longer 'slaves to sin'....by Christ Himself.




                  I believe it is a sadness that you think something of Gods ways can be 'indescribable' and very sad that you don't experience forgiveness as happiness and rejoicing in freedom.

                  Philippians 4 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your gentleness be known to everyone. The Lord is near. 6 Do not worry about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. 7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

                  Gods peace surpasses my understanding and is therefore indescribable and yet I'm filled with the experience of rejoicing and thanksgiving..

                  Don't be sad for me. I have confidence in the Scriptures explanation.
                  The crones love their cliques!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

                    I believe it is a sadness that you think something of Gods ways can be 'indescribable'
                    Since we aren't told to confess our sins to any priest, {He is our high priest), I don't believe Catholic confession is God's way.

                    and very sad that you don't experience forgiveness as happiness and rejoicing in freedom.
                    Oh, but I do! And I don't need a mere man to tell me I'm forgiven to have that experience.

                    Philippians 4 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your gentleness be known to everyone. The Lord is near. 6 Do not worry about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. 7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
                    One of my favorite verses.


                    Gods peace surpasses my understanding and is therefore indescribable and yet I'm filled with the experience of rejoicing and thanksgiving..

                    Don't be sad for me. I have confidence in the Scriptures explanation.
                    There is no scriptural explanation for Catholic confession. We have one mediator between God and man, and that is Jesus Christ.
                    ~~~My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My Father's hand~~~

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 4Him View Post

                      Since we aren't told to confess our sins to any priest, {He is our high priest), I don't believe Catholic confession is God's way.



                      Oh, but I do! And I don't need a mere man to tell me I'm forgiven to have that experience.



                      One of my favorite verses.



                      There is no scriptural explanation for Catholic confession. We have one mediator between God and man, and that is Jesus Christ.
                      There's an explaination!

                      1. It is the priest who makes atonement for sin. (Lev. 19:20-22)
                      2. "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you." (John 20:21-23)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
                        I believe it is a sadness that you think something of Gods ways can be 'indescribable' and very sad that you don't experience forgiveness as happiness and rejoicing in freedom.

                        [I]Philippians 4 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your gentleness be known to everyone. The Lord is near. 6 Do not worry about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.
                        note - prayer / requests are to be made known - to God. no one else is named.

                        7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

                        Gods peace surpasses my understanding and is therefore indescribable and yet I'm filled with the experience of rejoicing and thanksgiving..

                        Don't be sad for me. I have confidence in the Scriptures explanation.
                        that peace and the freedom from the prison of this world, comes when one is born again.

                        confessing sins to man, is not biblical.




                        "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                        The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Romishpopishpapist View Post

                          To tell you the truth-- I learned something! I didn't know that a priest could only validly absolve by saying the words and could not sign them, etc.
                          How is that Roman Catholic doctrine consistent in any way with the teaching of the rest of God's word?

                          RC's do know God, but the Bible indicates that it is a knowledge in condemnation, a knowledge enabling them to know things about themselves and the world around them, even though they suppress the truth of God which makes such knowledge possible.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Curious Joe View Post

                            so then take Father Murphy's advice and read the Bible, too, otherwise the work you reference will be of no value
                            I do read the BIble and I value his opinion. Catholics should listen to him.

                            JohnR

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              3. "Mass" derives from the Latin word "missa", which simply means to be "sent". So Mass is also called the "Sacrifice of the Mass", because it is the sacrifice of the one sent to be a propitiation for the sins of the people - the sacrifice that is offered to God at every Mass.

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