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The Vatican's pathetic statement on the McCarrick Investigation

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Mysterium Fidei View Post

    Catherine of Sienna was speaking of a pope who might be personally sinful. As horrible as Bergoglio's actions, or non actions, as the case may be, are, this is not what makes him an anti-pope. There have been popes in the past that were debauched and personally sinful, but they did not promulgate heresy to the universal Church.
    I agree. That's why none of your posts accusing the pope of sin are convincing anyone that he isn't the rightful pope.

    I think there was even a pope who was a serial killer but he was still the head of the church and Christians still had a duty to submit to his authority.


    What makes Bergoglio an anti-pope is that he promulgates heresy to the universal Church, which violates Christ's promise that He would be with His Church; "all days, even to the consummation of the world".
    You're right that heresy, not personal sins, is the real issue when determining whether Pope Francis is the rightful head of the church.

    You really need to prove that Pope Francis promulgated heresy if you want to convince us to leave what you call the "Novus Ordite Sect" and follow the church headed by the person you believe is the lawful pope instead. Who is that again? What's the name of the pope to which you submit to as the head of the Catholic Church?

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

      “Monsignor Jean-François Lantheaume, then first Counsellor of the Nunciature in Washington and Chargé d’Affaires ad interim after the unexpected death of Nuncio Sambi in Baltimore, told me when I arrived in Washington — and he is ready to testify to it — about a stormy conversation, lasting over an hour, that Nuncio Sambi had with Cardinal McCarrick whom he had summoned to the Nunciature. Monsignor Lantheaume told me that ‘the Nuncio’s voice could be heard all the way out in the corridor.’”
      This is not evidence, this is rumor and innuendo. This information is being reported third hand. When this Monsignor testifies under oath in a court of law or canonical court, and or puts his testimony in writing to be submitted to formal review, etc, then it becomes evidence. Until such time--this is third hand information and is worthless.

      CNA contacted Msgr. Lantheaume and requested an interview with him to discuss the account attributed to him by Archbishop Viganò. Lantheaume, who has now left the Vatican diplomatic corps and serves in priestly ministry in France, declined to give an interview, and said he had no intentions of speaking further on the matter.
      Well isn't that interesting? What do we have now? NOTHING. A whole lot of NOTHING. Just more accusations from another coward that isn't willing to back them up.

      “Viganò said the truth. That’s all,” he wrote to CNA.

      http://catholicherald.co.uk/news/201...aid-the-truth/
      Well, golly! I guess that settles the matter! Some has been archbishop has made a bunch of crazy accusations that he offers no proof for. The same has been then goes into hiding and refuses to talk to the press. At least the people accusing Kavanaugh were willing to come forward and testify. Sure they had no case or evidence---but at least they came forward and testified. They didn't run and hide like Vigano. What does that say about Vigano? That's right: nothing good. The man is a COWARD. Consider--he went public to sources he knew would give him an uncritical hearing and not challenge him.

      I repeat: when the has been actually produces real evidence for his accusations, then he deserves a hearing. Until such time as that happens, he should shut his mouth and stop causing division and strife during a time when we desperately need to be sticking together. During this time we cannot start fighting among ourselves. We must stick together and unite.

      Archbishop Carlo Viganò’s claim that Pope Benedict gave sanctions to now ex-Cardinal McCarrick, one of which included that he was to “leave the seminary,” appears to be backed by new evidence that McCarrick did indeed abruptly leave the seminary in which he lived in 2008.

      Speaking to Catholic News Agency (CNA), two sources said that they were present when the Apostolic Nuncio in Washington, Archbishop Pietro Sambi, informed McCarrick that he had to leave.
      Who are these sources? When did this conversation take place? I don't mean the year, I mean the specific date and time. Who witnessed this? Is there a record of this?

      “Two sources present at a 2008 meeting between McCarrick and Sambi told CNA that the nuncio instructed McCarrick to leave the seminary at that time. According to those sources, Sambi told McCarrick his departure was the direct instruction of Pope Benedict XVI,” reported Ed Condon of CNA.
      Again, who are these "sources?" When did this conversation take place? Who were the witnesses? Is there a formal record of this?

      They keep quoting from "sources." Sorry--not evidence. When the sources are named and specifics are given, that is one thing.
      Last edited by Romishpopishpapist; 10-10-18, 08:16 PM.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by logix View Post
        My post was meant to be limited in scope and was not an endorsement of a literal interpretation of every word the saint uttered as some here appear to think.
        So when you post an endorsement of the false doctrine that Satan himself should be obeyed if he was your pope....you really meant to reject that same false doctrine?

        How did we all miss that?

        ROFL!

        ...
        "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."- John F. Kennedy

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        • #34
          Originally posted by logix View Post
          I think there was even a pope who was a serial killer but he was still the head of the church and Christians still had a duty to submit to his authority.
          Yes. We know you devout Catholics would willingly submit to Satan himself. You have made that clear. Following and obeying a serial killer is a day in the park for Roman Catholics.

          But Scripture says Christ followers are to EXPEL such wicked men from their presence....NOT submit to them....never mind that any such monsters have "authority"!

          Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

          Whose best interests are served if Christians submit to the devil? I wonder who would teach Roman Catholics that, and who would teach everyone else that through the corrupt religion of RCism?

          I wonder...

          ...

          "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."- John F. Kennedy

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Atemi View Post
            Yes. We know you devout Catholics would willingly submit to Satan himself. You have made that clear. Following and obeying a serial killer is a day in the park for Roman Catholics.
            As shocking as this is, I can't help being reminded of...

            "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies." (John 8:44)

            How fitting, then, that Catholicism is the mother of lies.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by logix View Post

              I agree. That's why none of your posts accusing the pope of sin are convincing anyone that he isn't the rightful pope.

              I think there was even a pope who was a serial killer but he was still the head of the church and Christians still had a duty to submit to his authority.




              You're right that heresy, not personal sins, is the real issue when determining whether Pope Francis is the rightful head of the church.

              You really need to prove that Pope Francis promulgated heresy if you want to convince us to leave what you call the "Novus Ordite Sect" and follow the church headed by the person you believe is the lawful pope instead. Who is that again? What's the name of the pope to which you submit to as the head of the Catholic Church?
              As Catholics, our hope of assurance comes from Jesus promise to Peter the Rock and the advocacy of the Holy Spirit. We believe that the Church and the Pope can never teach error with regards to matters of faith and morals. I have taught this to my kids since they were young and today as adults because if current circumstances should drive all Catholics out into the wilderness outside of our Church then the Church would have disappeared long ago. Even before it began because of how sinful the Apostle Judas was. I would still have attended the Last Supper even if I had known about the sinfulness of Judas.
              The crones love their cliques!

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
                As Catholics, our hope of assurance comes from Jesus promise to Peter the Rock and the advocacy of the Holy Spirit. We believe that the Church and the Pope can never teach error with regards to matters of faith and morals. I have taught this to my kids since they were young and today as adults because if current circumstances should drive all Catholics out into the wilderness outside of our Church then the Church would have disappeared long ago. Even before it began because of how sinful the Apostle Judas was. I would still have attended the Last Supper even if I had known about the sinfulness of Judas.
                Devout Catholics would still be Catholics no matter how evil their sect gets...and would even willfully submit to Satan himself for the cause of their precious Mother Church.

                Catholics should not boast about their great tolerance for any evil. It admits too much.

                ...

                "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."- John F. Kennedy

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
                  I would still have attended the Last Supper even if I had known about the sinfulness of Judas.
                  Do you consider yourself less sinful than Judas?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Johan View Post
                    I would still have attended the Last Supper even if I had known about the sinfulness of Judas.

                    Do you consider yourself less sinful than Judas?
                    They do.

                    Devout Catholics think that if they attended the Last Supper, they would be doing everyone else there a favor.

                    As better people, such devout Catholics would happily give any lesser Apostles present helpful advice on meeting Catholic moral excellence.

                    ...
                    "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."- John F. Kennedy

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Johan View Post

                      Do you consider yourself less sinful than Judas?
                      I know that some sins are more grievous and soul destroying than others and I assume you believe that as well being part of the outraged voice against paedophilia sins.
                      The crones love their cliques!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
                        Do you consider yourself less sinful than Judas?

                        I know that some sins are more grievous and soul destroying than others and I assume you believe that as well being part of the outraged voice against paedophilia sins.
                        You made sure not to answer the question.

                        ...
                        "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."- John F. Kennedy

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
                          I know that some sins are more grievous and soul destroying than others and I assume you believe that as well being part of the outraged voice against paedophilia sins.
                          As Atemi noted, you did not answer my question. Yes, some sins are more heinous than others, but what do you mean by "soul destroying"? And are you less sinful than Judas was?

                          Jesus answered, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them - do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish." (Luke 13:2-5)

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by logix View Post

                            My post was meant to be limited in scope and was not an endorsement of a literal interpretation of every word the saint uttered as some here appear to think.
                            I know what you meant, as well as everyone else. But many catholics are known for their avoidance of questions by pretending they fail to understand or go off on another tangent.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Atemi View Post

                              Devout Catholics would still be Catholics no matter how evil their sect gets...and would even willfully submit to Satan himself for the cause of their precious Mother Church.

                              Catholics should not boast about their great tolerance for any evil. It admits too much.

                              ...
                              I have zero tolerance for evil. The point is that no matter how evil a pope may appear to be, the Holy Spirit protects his teaching from error. Therefore, Christians must submit to him as Christ taught. Jesus, despite judging the Pharisees for their sin, still told people to "do whatever they tell you" as their sin is not an excuse for disobedience.

                              Hear the words of Jesus:

                              "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

                              Likewise, since Pope Francis sits in the Chair of Peter, Christians obey everything he says. Also, like the Pharisees, Christians must not follow any sinful behavior they observe the Pope committing that since Jesus said "But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach." So despite obeying everything the pope says, there is no tolerance or following of evil.
                              Last edited by logix; 10-11-18, 09:26 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by logix View Post

                                Hear the words of Jesus:

                                "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
                                Then logix;
                                why do you not do so ???
                                at judgement you will be asked to give an account of yourself
                                and by your very words,
                                here
                                So you must be careful to do everything they tell you
                                you condem yourself,
                                you cannot claim any sort of
                                BuuuuBuuu Buuutttttt; "I diddddn't know"
                                //

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