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Pope says that Satan (Vigano)is causiing the division in the church

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  • Pope says that Satan (Vigano)is causiing the division in the church

    https://www.newsweek.com/pope-franci...church-1158822

    https://www.reuters.com/video/2018/1...eoId=471541964

    https://www.independent.ie/world-new...-37395467.html

    Philip Pullella

    October 8 2018 12:59 PM

    ·

    ·

    The devil is alive and well and working overtime to undermine the Roman Catholic Church, Pope Francis says.

    In fact, the pope is so convinced that Satan is to blame for the sexual abuse crisis and deep divisions racking the Church that he has asked Catholics around the world to recite a special prayer every day in October to try to beat him back.

    "(The Church must be) saved from the attacks of the malign one, the great accuser and at the same time be made ever more aware of its guilt, its mistakes, and abuses committed in the present and the past," Francis said in a message on Sept. 29.

    Since he was elected in 2013, Francis has made clear that he believes the devil to be real. In a document in April on holiness in the modern world, Francis mentioned the devil more than a dozen times.

    "We should not think of the devil as a myth, a representation, a symbol, a figure of speech or an idea. This mistake would lead us to let down our guard, to grow careless and end up more vulnerable," he wrote in the document.

    The Church has recently been hit by one sexual abuse scandal after another, from Germany, to the United States, to Chile. At the same time, a deepening polarisation between conservatives and liberals in the Church has played out on social media.

    Francis' use of the term "the great accuser" to describe Satan hit a raw nerve with one of the pope's harshest conservative critics, Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò, the Vatican's former ambassador to Washington.

    CHURCH DIVISIONS

    In an 11-page statement published on Aug. 26, Viganò launched an unprecedented broadside by a Church insider against the pope and a long list of Vatican and U.S. Church officials.

    He accused Francis of knowing about sexual misconduct by a former US cardinal with male adult seminarians but not doing anything about it.

    Viganò, concluding that his former boss had singled him out as the devil in disguise, complained in his next statement that Francis "compared me to the great accuser, Satan, who sows scandal and division in the Church, though without ever uttering my name".

    On Sunday, a top Vatican official issued a scathing open letter accusing Viganò of mounting a "political frame job devoid of real foundation" and contesting his accusations against the pope point by point.

    Francis is so convinced that Satan is ultimately to blame for both the sexual abuse scandals and the divisions within the Church that he has enlisted the aid of spiritual big gun - St. Michael the Archangel. Michael is mentioned several times in the Bible as the leader of the angels who ousted Lucifer, the fallen angel, from paradise.

    Catholics are being asked to recite the rosary daily in October and conclude it with a prayer to St. Michael that was said after Mass until 1964 but then fell into disuse.

    The prayer reads:

    "St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our defence against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray, and do thou, O Prince of heavenly hosts, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan, and all evil spirits, who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls."

    Reuters

    It seems that Francis is looking for blame in all the wrong places. Vigano is not the devil, Pope Francis is. He is the one who covered for McCarrick, elevated McCarrick after Pope Benedict XVI sent him to a life of prayer and penance.

    The facts are that he has covered up abuse and unless Catholics who truly love God, do something about it, your sect is dead.




    It is fundamentally necessary and healthy for Christians to acknowledge that God foreknows nothing uncertainly, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His own immutable, eternal and infallible will. This bombshell knocks "free-will" flat…

    Martin Luther The Bondage of the Will

  • #2
    This is a very simple matter. The Pope is confused. Those exposing the cover up are not agents of satan. Priests who molest children are agents of satan -- and this should be obvious, but alas sometime a person's moral compass just breaks down. And those who cover up for this, and cover up for the cover up, are similarly in Satan's pocket. What is evil doesn't like the light, which is why they don't like having all this dirty laundry aired. Those of us who want things changed want it aaalllll exposed. Dig it up. All of it. It's like a vampire colony -- it will burn in the sunlight.

    The more Pope Francis tries to make himself out to be like Christ, an innocent martyr being attacked by Satan, the more angry and disgusted we get. He's not winning any converts.

    Excuse me while I go vomit.
    Open Heart, who loves the Lord.

    For nothing is hidden that will not be made manifest, nor is anything secret that will not be known and come to light.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
      This is a very simple matter. The Pope is confused. Those exposing the cover up are not agents of satan. Priests who molest children are agents of satan -- and this should be obvious, but alas sometime a person's moral compass just breaks down. And those who cover up for this, and cover up for the cover up, are similarly in Satan's pocket. What is evil doesn't like the light, which is why they don't like having all this dirty laundry aired. Those of us who want things changed want it aaalllll exposed. Dig it up. All of it. It's like a vampire colony -- it will burn in the sunlight.

      The more Pope Francis tries to make himself out to be like Christ, an innocent martyr being attacked by Satan, the more angry and disgusted we get. He's not winning any converts.

      Excuse me while I go vomit.
      OH, Thanks for your good sense and great moral compass. The Pope is 81. Perhaps age maybe affecting him? Wishful thinking, huh? Now that we have found out he hid homosexual predators in Argentina, any respect I had, is completely gone.

      You are becoming a good friend, OH. I appreciate you very much.

      It is fundamentally necessary and healthy for Christians to acknowledge that God foreknows nothing uncertainly, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His own immutable, eternal and infallible will. This bombshell knocks "free-will" flat…

      Martin Luther The Bondage of the Will

      Comment


      • #4
        He mentioned satan/devil a lot and the 'Church' - how many times did he mention Christ?


        "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

        The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by mica View Post
          He mentioned satan/devil a lot and the 'Church' - how many times did he mention Christ?

          You nailed it mica. He is despicable. A Christian should have Christ first in their lives and conduct their lives around him.
          It is fundamentally necessary and healthy for Christians to acknowledge that God foreknows nothing uncertainly, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His own immutable, eternal and infallible will. This bombshell knocks "free-will" flat…

          Martin Luther The Bondage of the Will

          Comment


          • #6
            A Polish feature film about the abuses by clergy of the Roman Catholic church is setting attendance records at the country’s box office.

            An appellate court in Poznan, Poland, Tuesday upheld a 1 million zloty ($269,000) fine on the church in a case of a priest convicted of imprisoning and raping a 13 year old girl

            https://www.bloombergquint.com/polit...and#gs._VAte7g


            all lies, hate filled anti-Catholic lies'
            lies they are , just hateful lies;
            we are the one true church, we are the one true church
            we are; we are;
            Isaiah 47:1
            Come down, and sit in the dust,
            O virgin daughter of Babylon,
            sit on the ground: there is no throne,

            O daughter of the Chaldeans:
            for thou shalt no more be called tender and delicate.

            2 Take the millstones, and grind meal:
            uncover thy locks, make bare the leg,
            uncover the thigh, pass over the rivers.

            3 Thy nakedness shall be uncovered,
            yea, thy shame shall be seen:
            I will take vengeance, and I will not meet thee as a man.

            ///
            Take the Millstones there girl; and grind out the meal,
            get all your Apologist and Let now the astrologers,
            the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up,
            and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee.

            make excuse after excuse, hid your shame

            but I will still uncover thy locks
            make bare your legs
            and uncover your thighs

            even tho you cross over the River
            even if you hide in the deepest sea
            ​​​​​​​there I will find you






            Last edited by Blackie-USMC; 10-09-18, 03:59 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Beloved Daughter View Post

              OH, Thanks for your good sense and great moral compass. The Pope is 81. Perhaps age maybe affecting him? Wishful thinking, huh? Now that we have found out he hid homosexual predators in Argentina, any respect I had, is completely gone.
              l
              You are becoming a good friend, OH. I appreciate you very much.
              With very few exceptions, all the Catholics I know feel the same way. The laity have clear heads about this. It's the clergy that have a disconnect, mostly the gay clergy. FWIW Pope Benedict forbade gays being ordained as priests, but he was ignored.
              Open Heart, who loves the Lord.

              For nothing is hidden that will not be made manifest, nor is anything secret that will not be known and come to light.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Beloved Daughter View Post

                OH, Thanks for your good sense and great moral compass. The Pope is 81. Perhaps age maybe affecting him? Wishful thinking, huh? Now that we have found out he hid homosexual predators in Argentina, any respect I had, is completely gone.

                You are becoming a good friend, OH. I appreciate you very much.
                I just want to make sure I'm not misleading you or anyone else. Right now I'm furious with the Pope for being a part of the scandal, and with the church for not following through with zero tolerance (which again is largely due to the Pope). It has really stumbled me and I'm am lapsed, meaning I am not really attending Mass and stuff because I'm really just that angry.

                But it doesn't mean I'm at all interested in becoming a Protestant. I do think that if Jesus really is the Messiah and Christian claims are true, that the Catholic Church is the true church, despite the scandals. If it turns out that the Catholic Church were not the true Church, it woud mean that there is no New Testament, no church at all with any legitimate claim, Jesus wouldn't be the Messiah, and Christianity would be bankrupt.

                Still want to be friends?
                Open Heart, who loves the Lord.

                For nothing is hidden that will not be made manifest, nor is anything secret that will not be known and come to light.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

                  I just want to make sure I'm not misleading you or anyone else. Right now I'm furious with the Pope for being a part of the scandal, and with the church for not following through with zero tolerance (which again is largely due to the Pope). It has really stumbled me and I'm am lapsed, meaning I am not really attending Mass and stuff because I'm really just that angry.

                  But it doesn't mean I'm at all interested in becoming a Protestant. I do think that if Jesus really is the Messiah and Christian claims are true, that the Catholic Church is the true church, despite the scandals. If it turns out that the Catholic Church were not the true Church, it woud mean that there is no New Testament, no church at all with any legitimate claim, Jesus wouldn't be the Messiah, and Christianity would be bankrupt.

                  Still want to be friends?
                  Your not the only catholic that thinks all or none ideology. Satan hood winks many catholics with those thoughts.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

                    I just want to make sure I'm not misleading you or anyone else. Right now I'm furious with the Pope for being a part of the scandal, and with the church for not following through with zero tolerance (which again is largely due to the Pope). It has really stumbled me and I'm am lapsed, meaning I am not really attending Mass and stuff because I'm really just that angry.

                    But it doesn't mean I'm at all interested in becoming a Protestant. I do think that if Jesus really is the Messiah and Christian claims are true, that the Catholic Church is the true church, despite the scandals. If it turns out that the Catholic Church were not the true Church, it woud mean that there is no New Testament, no church at all with any legitimate claim, Jesus wouldn't be the Messiah, and Christianity would be bankrupt.

                    Still want to be friends?
                    I'm not here to proselytize. But as I have always said I do believe that some Catholics are saved.
                    It is fundamentally necessary and healthy for Christians to acknowledge that God foreknows nothing uncertainly, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His own immutable, eternal and infallible will. This bombshell knocks "free-will" flat…

                    Martin Luther The Bondage of the Will

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

                      With very few exceptions, all the Catholics I know feel the same way. The laity have clear heads about this. It's the clergy that have a disconnect, mostly the gay clergy. FWIW Pope Benedict forbade gays being ordained as priests, but he was ignored.
                      Not all the clergy. There is new generation of good, young, committed and Godly priests out there. My own priest is one of them. These scandals tear him up inside, yet he still does his very best for God and the Church to care for his flock. With all the inexcusable crap that is going on, it can sometimes be too easy to throw the good out with the bad.
                      "Whenever I'm asked why Southern writers ...[write] about freaks, I say it is because we are still able to recognize one." O'Connor

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Beloved Daughter View Post
                        https://www.newsweek.com/pope-franci...church-1158822

                        https://www.reuters.com/video/2018/1...eoId=471541964

                        https://www.independent.ie/world-new...-37395467.html

                        Philip Pullella

                        October 8 2018 12:59 PM

                        ·

                        ·

                        The devil is alive and well and working overtime to undermine the Roman Catholic Church, Pope Francis says.

                        In fact, the pope is so convinced that Satan is to blame for the sexual abuse crisis and deep divisions racking the Church that he has asked Catholics around the world to recite a special prayer every day in October to try to beat him back.

                        "(The Church must be) saved from the attacks of the malign one, the great accuser and at the same time be made ever more aware of its guilt, its mistakes, and abuses committed in the present and the past," Francis said in a message on Sept. 29.

                        Since he was elected in 2013, Francis has made clear that he believes the devil to be real. In a document in April on holiness in the modern world, Francis mentioned the devil more than a dozen times.

                        "We should not think of the devil as a myth, a representation, a symbol, a figure of speech or an idea. This mistake would lead us to let down our guard, to grow careless and end up more vulnerable," he wrote in the document.

                        The Church has recently been hit by one sexual abuse scandal after another, from Germany, to the United States, to Chile. At the same time, a deepening polarisation between conservatives and liberals in the Church has played out on social media.

                        Francis' use of the term "the great accuser" to describe Satan hit a raw nerve with one of the pope's harshest conservative critics, Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò, the Vatican's former ambassador to Washington.

                        CHURCH DIVISIONS

                        In an 11-page statement published on Aug. 26, Viganò launched an unprecedented broadside by a Church insider against the pope and a long list of Vatican and U.S. Church officials.

                        He accused Francis of knowing about sexual misconduct by a former US cardinal with male adult seminarians but not doing anything about it.

                        Viganò, concluding that his former boss had singled him out as the devil in disguise, complained in his next statement that Francis "compared me to the great accuser, Satan, who sows scandal and division in the Church, though without ever uttering my name".

                        On Sunday, a top Vatican official issued a scathing open letter accusing Viganò of mounting a "political frame job devoid of real foundation" and contesting his accusations against the pope point by point.

                        Francis is so convinced that Satan is ultimately to blame for both the sexual abuse scandals and the divisions within the Church that he has enlisted the aid of spiritual big gun - St. Michael the Archangel. Michael is mentioned several times in the Bible as the leader of the angels who ousted Lucifer, the fallen angel, from paradise.

                        Catholics are being asked to recite the rosary daily in October and conclude it with a prayer to St. Michael that was said after Mass until 1964 but then fell into disuse.

                        The prayer reads:

                        "St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our defence against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray, and do thou, O Prince of heavenly hosts, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan, and all evil spirits, who prowl about the world seeking the ruin of souls."

                        Reuters

                        It seems that Francis is looking for blame in all the wrong places. Vigano is not the devil, Pope Francis is. He is the one who covered for McCarrick, elevated McCarrick after Pope Benedict XVI sent him to a life of prayer and penance.

                        The facts are that he has covered up abuse and unless Catholics who truly love God, do something about it, your sect is dead.



                        The main problem I have with Vigano is that to date I am not aware of any evidence he has offered to back up his accusations. Unless or until he provides real evidence of what he is claiming, Pope Francis is right: he is causing division in the Church and doing do at a time when unity is needed.

                        When Vigano made those accusations he should have had all the relevant evidence necessary to prove his claims. He should have had any and all documents or copies of official documents, dates, names, times, places, witnesses, recordings, etc. He had none of that. Oh, he assured us that the evidence exists in the Vatican and in Washington. That is not helpful. No one can access that. It is not on us to go in search of the evidence, it is on him to provide it. I am still waiting for him to provide evidence for his claims. Unless or until he can provide evidence he should shut his mouth.

                        I note by the way that I am not a fan of Pope Francis. I do not like the direction he has taken the Church, the doctrinal confusion he has sown, etc. I think his pastoral priorities are messed up. That being said, the pope's life should not be destroyed just because of ideology. Vigano needs evidence. If he cannot provide evidence he is nothing but a liar.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

                          I just want to make sure I'm not misleading you or anyone else. Right now I'm furious with the Pope for being a part of the scandal, and with the church for not following through with zero tolerance (which again is largely due to the Pope). It has really stumbled me and I'm am lapsed, meaning I am not really attending Mass and stuff because I'm really just that angry.

                          But it doesn't mean I'm at all interested in becoming a Protestant.
                          When has anyone here said they want you to be a protestant? Your eyes still are not on Christ. I don't want you to be protestant. I want you to be born again and live forever in heaven. See the difference?

                          I do think that if Jesus really is the Messiah and Christian claims are true, that the Catholic Church is the true church, despite the scandals. If it turns out that the Catholic Church were not the true Church, it woud mean that there is no New Testament, no church at all with any legitimate claim, Jesus wouldn't be the Messiah, and Christianity would be bankrupt.

                          Still want to be friends?
                          This is your fatal flaw. The rcc is not the church that was founded at pentacost. So your entire premise's are wrong. Jesus is the messiah, He did found at church. That church is the eklessia- all believers everywhere from pentacost to present day. So yes there is a n.t. the church is legit and Christianity shines in the darkness in every corner of the world. Its so sad to see catholics with such a fatalistic attitude. Your eyes are on your church, not Jesus. Equally sad.
                          Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
                            This is a very simple matter. The Pope is confused.
                            The "pope" is not confused! He is doing exactly what he was elected to do; stonewall, delay, distract, cover up and attack the victims and the whistle blower (the Great Accuser, Viganò)

                            He is the Don of the Lavender Mafia.
                            "The Holy Roman Church condemns, rejects, anathematizes and declares to be outside the Body of Christ, which is the Church, whoever holds opposing or contrary views.” Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mysterium Fidei View Post

                              The "pope" is not confused! He is doing exactly what he was elected to do; stonewall, delay, distract, cover up and attack the victims and the whistle blower (the Great Accuser, Viganò)

                              He is the Don of the Lavender Mafia.
                              and head a false church, just like pre vat II


                              "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                              The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                              Comment

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