Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

Mary... Significant archetype or Serial Pest?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Mary... Significant archetype or Serial Pest?

    John 2 On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine gave out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” 4 And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what concern is that to you and to me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.” 6 Now standing there were six stone water jars for the Jewish rites of purification, each holding twenty or thirty gallons. 7 Jesus said to them, “Fill the jars with water.” And they filled them up to the brim. 8 He said to them, “Now draw some out, and take it to the chief steward.” So they took it. 9 When the steward tasted the water that had become wine, and did not know where it came from (though the servants who had drawn the water knew), the steward called the bridegroom 10 and said to him, “Everyone serves the good wine first, and then the inferior wine after the guests have become drunk. But you have kept the good wine until now.” 11 Jesus did this, the first of his signs, in Cana of Galilee, and revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.

    12 After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother, his brothers, and his disciples; and they remained there a few days.



    Matthew 12 46 While he was still speaking to the crowds, his mother and his brothers were standing outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Look, your mother and your brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” 48 But to the one who had told him this, Jesus replied, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 And pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
    This site has interpreted these verses as an indictment against the Holy Mothers significance to Christs mission. If newbies want proof of this I will produce it but the old regulars will not be able to deny it.

    In these verses, nonCC's have found Mary to be a bully who needed to be chastised by Jesus to show how she is not a positive part of the salvation story.

    The Catholic Church however views her influence at the wedding feast at Cana as testament to a mothers recognition about her childs gifts and advice in utilising them.

    The Church also finds Jesus description of the Church as a real family in His sacrifice, even more profound than our natural family, aptly demonstrated in the contrast between His own natural family and His Spiritual family.

    The Church beholds these Scripture verses as prophetic markers of the Christian family and rejects the interpretation of some that they show Mary to be a serial pest in Jesus ministry.
    The crones love their cliques!

  • #2
    Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
    John 2 On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine gave out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” 4 And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what concern is that to you and to me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.” 6 Now standing there were six stone water jars for the Jewish rites of purification, each holding twenty or thirty gallons. 7 Jesus said to them, “Fill the jars with water.” And they filled them up to the brim. 8 He said to them, “Now draw some out, and take it to the chief steward.” So they took it. 9 When the steward tasted the water that had become wine, and did not know where it came from (though the servants who had drawn the water knew), the steward called the bridegroom 10 and said to him, “Everyone serves the good wine first, and then the inferior wine after the guests have become drunk. But you have kept the good wine until now.” 11 Jesus did this, the first of his signs, in Cana of Galilee, and revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.

    12 After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother, his brothers, and his disciples; and they remained there a few days.



    Matthew 12 46 While he was still speaking to the crowds, his mother and his brothers were standing outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Look, your mother and your brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” 48 But to the one who had told him this, Jesus replied, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 And pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
    This site has interpreted these verses as an indictment against the Holy Mothers significance to Christs mission. If newbies want proof of this I will produce it but the old regulars will not be able to deny it.

    In these verses, nonCC's have found Mary to be a bully who needed to be chastised by Jesus to show how she is not a positive part of the salvation story.

    The Catholic Church however views her influence at the wedding feast at Cana as testament to a mothers recognition about her childs gifts and advice in utilising them.

    The Church also finds Jesus description of the Church as a real family in His sacrifice, even more profound than our natural family, aptly demonstrated in the contrast between His own natural family and His Spiritual family.

    The Church beholds these Scripture verses as prophetic markers of the Christian family and rejects the interpretation of some that they show Mary to be a serial pest in Jesus ministry.
    How your "church" has interpreted these passages is immaterial. She was chosen to be the mother of Jesus Christ - that is sufficient for me.
    Last edited by Johan; 10-10-18, 02:07 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      it continues to be - all about Mary for catholics.


      "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

      The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
        In these verses, nonCC's have found Mary to be a bully who needed to be chastised by Jesus to show how she is not a positive part of the salvation story.

        The Catholic Church however views her influence at the wedding feast at Cana as testament to a mothers recognition about her childs gifts and advice in utilising them.
        You are obviously ignorant of the teachings of the early church. Isn't your position that the early church was Catholic?

        LOL.

        We know from history that it was taught in the early church that Jesus rebuked Mary at the wedding because she did not properly revere Him as she should have.

        The early church says Mary did not know her place....yet you are here telling us you know better.

        How humorous!

        ...


        "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."- John F. Kennedy

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mercedes View Post


          This site has interpreted these verses as an indictment against the Holy Mothers significance to Christs mission. If newbies want proof of this I will produce it but the old regulars will not be able to deny it.

          In these verses, nonCC's have found Mary to be a bully who needed to be chastised by Jesus to show how she is not a positive part of the salvation story.

          .[/QUOTE
          __________________________________________________ ____

          OK; prove it

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
            Mary... Significant archetype or Serial Pest?
            Nowhere does Scripture, Jesus, or his apostles state to model RCC's sinless Mediatrix and Advocate; therefore, RCC is the Serial Pest.
            1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

            Comment


            • #7
              If Mary was as central as the RCC alleges, the "mediatrix of grace", you would have thought that Paul and the other apostles would have encouraged Christians to pray the hail mary or erect statues to Mary to pray to?

              The narrative of the early church just doesn't show any devotion at all to Mary or any other canonized saints idolized by the RCC.

              Its true I guess that many, even most of the canonized saints were still alive- but some weren't like Joseph and Mary's parents who are credited with the Immaculate Conception by the RCC Magisterium.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
                John 2 On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine gave out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” 4 And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what concern is that to you and to me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.” 6 Now standing there were six stone water jars for the Jewish rites of purification, each holding twenty or thirty gallons. 7 Jesus said to them, “Fill the jars with water.” And they filled them up to the brim. 8 He said to them, “Now draw some out, and take it to the chief steward.” So they took it. 9 When the steward tasted the water that had become wine, and did not know where it came from (though the servants who had drawn the water knew), the steward called the bridegroom 10 and said to him, “Everyone serves the good wine first, and then the inferior wine after the guests have become drunk. But you have kept the good wine until now.” 11 Jesus did this, the first of his signs, in Cana of Galilee, and revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.

                12 After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother, his brothers, and his disciples; and they remained there a few days.



                Matthew 12 46 While he was still speaking to the crowds, his mother and his brothers were standing outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Look, your mother and your brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” 48 But to the one who had told him this, Jesus replied, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 And pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
                This site has interpreted these verses as an indictment against the Holy Mothers significance to Christs mission. If newbies want proof of this I will produce it but the old regulars will not be able to deny it.

                In these verses, nonCC's have found Mary to be a bully who needed to be chastised by Jesus to show how she is not a positive part of the salvation story.

                The Catholic Church however views her influence at the wedding feast at Cana as testament to a mothers recognition about her childs gifts and advice in utilising them.

                The Church also finds Jesus description of the Church as a real family in His sacrifice, even more profound than our natural family, aptly demonstrated in the contrast between His own natural family and His Spiritual family.

                The Church beholds these Scripture verses as prophetic markers of the Christian family and rejects the interpretation of some that they show Mary to be a serial pest in Jesus ministry.
                OK, So now Mary is teaching God how to use his powers?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
                  John 2 On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine gave out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” 4 And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what concern is that to you and to me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.” 6 Now standing there were six stone water jars for the Jewish rites of purification, each holding twenty or thirty gallons. 7 Jesus said to them, “Fill the jars with water.” And they filled them up to the brim. 8 He said to them, “Now draw some out, and take it to the chief steward.” So they took it. 9 When the steward tasted the water that had become wine, and did not know where it came from (though the servants who had drawn the water knew), the steward called the bridegroom 10 and said to him, “Everyone serves the good wine first, and then the inferior wine after the guests have become drunk. But you have kept the good wine until now.” 11 Jesus did this, the first of his signs, in Cana of Galilee, and revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.

                  12 After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother, his brothers, and his disciples; and they remained there a few days.



                  Matthew 12 46 While he was still speaking to the crowds, his mother and his brothers were standing outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Look, your mother and your brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” 48 But to the one who had told him this, Jesus replied, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 And pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
                  This site has interpreted these verses as an indictment against the Holy Mothers significance to Christs mission. If newbies want proof of this I will produce it but the old regulars will not be able to deny it.

                  In these verses, nonCC's have found Mary to be a bully who needed to be chastised by Jesus to show how she is not a positive part of the salvation story.

                  The Catholic Church however views her influence at the wedding feast at Cana as testament to a mothers recognition about her childs gifts and advice in utilising them.

                  The Church also finds Jesus description of the Church as a real family in His sacrifice, even more profound than our natural family, aptly demonstrated in the contrast between His own natural family and His Spiritual family.

                  The Church beholds these Scripture verses as prophetic markers of the Christian family and rejects the interpretation of some that they show Mary to be a serial pest in Jesus ministry.
                  I'd like to say that I don't consider Mary a 'bully' or a 'pest'. I also don't believe Jesus 'chastised' her here.

                  But your sect has overrated her significance. She is significant, just not to the extent you think she is.

                  Jesus didn't perform this first (or any) miracle because His mother told Him to. Jesus operated within a Divine time-frame not a human one, He did things because the Father tells Him to.

                  “I can do nothing on My own initiative. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me." John 5:30

                  'This, the first of his signs, Jesus did at Cana in Galilee, and manifested his glory. And his disciples believed in him' <----- this is why. So His disciples could see and believe Him.

                  Mary holds no other significance to Christ's ministry, and certainly not to our salvation, than what is revealed in His word.

                  "The Catholic Church" can view, find or behold anything it wants. Doesn't make it scriptural or true.

                  I'd like to know, exactly, how these things are 'revealed' to your church.
                  2 Corinthians 5:7 ~ for we walk by faith, not by sight

                  Romans 10:9 ~ that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Johan View Post

                    How your "church" has interpreted these passages is immaterial. She was chosen to be the mother of Jesus Christ - that is sufficient for me.
                    God wants us all to grow in our understanding and appreciation for His way of salvation. And that path of growth in Him is a life-long journey: a disciple is a learner, by definition. To say "Stop! I know enough already!" is to stop being a disciple, a follower, a learner of Jesus.
                    ... For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed;...
                    But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. (Rom 13)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by PeanutGallery View Post
                      Nowhere does Scripture, Jesus, or his apostles state to model RCC's sinless Mediatrix and Advocate; .....
                      Only for those who stop listening to Him. Those who continue to listen, and continue to seek Him fully, truly, humbly, hold on to this promise - the TRUE promise:
                      Jn 16:12 "I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
                      Jn 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
                      ... For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed;...
                      But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. (Rom 13)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Southsider View Post
                        If Mary was as central as the RCC alleges, the "mediatrix of grace", you would have thought that Paul and the other apostles would have encouraged Christians to pray the hail mary or erect statues to Mary to pray to?

                        The narrative of the early church just doesn't show any devotion at all to Mary or any other canonized saints idolized by the RCC.

                        Its true I guess that many, even most of the canonized saints were still alive- but some weren't like Joseph and Mary's parents who are credited with the Immaculate Conception by the RCC Magisterium.
                        The Church in her infancy had one set of urgent priorities; the Church in her childhood, another; and in her adolescence, another; the Church in her maturity, still another, and the Church in her Last Days will have still another set of urgent priorities.
                        ... For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed;...
                        But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. (Rom 13)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by illini1959 View Post

                          ....

                          I'd like to know, exactly, how these things are 'revealed' to your church.
                          The short answer is, the Holy Spirit, sent by Jesus to be our Advocate/Paraclete until the end. He was and is sent to teach:
                          Jn 16:12 "I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
                          Jn 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
                          ... For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed;...
                          But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. (Rom 13)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Thomas View Post

                            Only for those who stop listening to Him. Those who continue to listen, and continue to seek Him fully, truly, humbly, hold on to this promise - the TRUE promise:
                            Jn 16:12 "I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.
                            Jn 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
                            Where does Jesus, or his apostles teach that the Holy Spirit would speak outside the authority of God's inspired written Holy bible?
                            1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
                              John 2 On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3 When the wine gave out, the mother of Jesus said to him, “They have no wine.” 4 And Jesus said to her, “Woman, what concern is that to you and to me? My hour has not yet come.” 5 His mother said to the servants, “Do whatever he tells you.” 6 Now standing there were six stone water jars for the Jewish rites of purification, each holding twenty or thirty gallons. 7 Jesus said to them, “Fill the jars with water.” And they filled them up to the brim. 8 He said to them, “Now draw some out, and take it to the chief steward.” So they took it. 9 When the steward tasted the water that had become wine, and did not know where it came from (though the servants who had drawn the water knew), the steward called the bridegroom 10 and said to him, “Everyone serves the good wine first, and then the inferior wine after the guests have become drunk. But you have kept the good wine until now.” 11 Jesus did this, the first of his signs, in Cana of Galilee, and revealed his glory; and his disciples believed in him.

                              12 After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother, his brothers, and his disciples; and they remained there a few days.



                              Matthew 12 46 While he was still speaking to the crowds, his mother and his brothers were standing outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Look, your mother and your brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.” 48 But to the one who had told him this, Jesus replied, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 And pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers! 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
                              This site has interpreted these verses as an indictment against the Holy Mothers significance to Christs mission. If newbies want proof of this I will produce it but the old regulars will not be able to deny it.

                              In these verses, nonCC's have found Mary to be a bully who needed to be chastised by Jesus to show how she is not a positive part of the salvation story.

                              The Catholic Church however views her influence at the wedding feast at Cana as testament to a mothers recognition about her childs gifts and advice in utilising them.

                              The Church also finds Jesus description of the Church as a real family in His sacrifice, even more profound than our natural family, aptly demonstrated in the contrast between His own natural family and His Spiritual family.

                              The Church beholds these Scripture verses as prophetic markers of the Christian family and rejects the interpretation of some that they show Mary to be a serial pest in Jesus ministry.
                              What?!? I don't know any Christian bro or sis that feels this way about Mary. I think this is an overreaction and not what Christians believe regarding Mary.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X