Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

Mary... Significant archetype or Serial Pest?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by nan View Post

    What did Mary ask Jesus to do?
    Implicity she asked Him to resolve the lack of wine situation.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by nan View Post

      This devotion was gradually derived from scripture? It had to have some origin for this belief to 'grow'. Mind telling me where you find this? And who in God's word fostered such belief?

      Mary was never referred to as holy.
      I don't believe that those who accept other doctrines not explicity defined by Scripture, have a case against Mary's esteemed role on that account.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by DMBD View Post

        Contemplate scripture all one wants. Just don't add the thoughts to scripture and say this is what so and so thought because they said this. It leads to many, many false assumptions and wrong teachings.
        If you subscribe to Sola Scriptura and Faith Alone, then you are subscribing additions to what is written in Scripture and therefore you have no leg to stand on using that reasoning against Mariology.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by nan View Post

          I would be glad to apologize if I'm in error. So would you please interpret Luke 11:27-28?
          As I said before in response to Johans? Methodist pastors interpretation, I hold to Haydocks interpretation as being far more consistent with Jesus and Mary's relationship.

          Ver. 28. Menounge, imo vero, yes indeed. Our Saviour does not here wish to deny what the woman had said, but rather to confirm it: indeed how could he deny, as Calvin impiously maintained, that his mother was blessed? By these words, he only wishes to tell his auditors what great advantage they might obtain by attending to his words. For the blessed Virgin, as S. Augustine says, was more happy in having our Saviour in her heart and affections, than in having conceived him in her womb. Tirinus.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by James Swan View Post
            Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
            (beyond Luther as he had a strong devotion to Mary and her intercessory role).
            Not meaning to digress from the topic, but this is historically inaccurate.

            JS
            You are out of touch with even today's Lutheran historians then.

            Luther’s Love for St. Mary, Queen of Heaven


            Here are some of Luthers words about Mary....

            1) Mary has no equal among creation

            “She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child….

            “Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God…. None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.


            2) Mary was without sin

            “God has formed the soul and body of the Virgin Mary full of the Holy Spirit, so that she is without all sins, for she has conceived and borne the Lord Jesus.”

            3) Mary was a perpetual virgin

            “Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary’s virginal womb… This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that. […] Christ… was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him.”

            4) On the veneration of Mary

            “The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart.”

            5) Mary is the mother of all Christians

            “Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees… If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother.

            6) You can never honor Mary enough

            “[Mary is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ… She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures.”

            https://churchpop.com/2017/03/07/5-s...d-virgin-mary/

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mercedes View Post


              Ver. 28. Menounge, imo vero, yes indeed. Our Saviour does not here wish to deny what the woman had said, but rather to confirm it: indeed how could he deny, as Calvin impiously maintained, that his mother was blessed? By these words, he only wishes to tell his auditors what great advantage they might obtain by attending to his words. For the blessed Virgin, as S. Augustine says, was more happy in having our Saviour in her heart and affections, than in having conceived him in her womb. Tirinus.
              Prove that with scripture !!!!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

                You are out of touch with even today's Lutheran historians then.
                Luther’s Love for St. Mary, Queen of Heaven

                Here are some of Luthers words about Mary....
                1) Mary has no equal among creation

                “She became the Mother of God, in which work so many and such great good things are bestowed on her as pass man’s understanding. For on this there follows all honor, all blessedness, and her unique place in the whole of mankind, among which she has no equal, namely, that she had a child by the Father in heaven, and such a Child….

                “Hence men have crowded all her glory into a single word, calling her the Mother of God…. None can say of her nor announce to her greater things, even though he had as many tongues as the earth possesses flowers and blades of grass: the sky, stars; and the sea, grains of sand. It needs to be pondered in the heart what it means to be the Mother of God.
                2) Mary was without sin

                “God has formed the soul and body of the Virgin Mary full of the Holy Spirit, so that she is without all sins, for she has conceived and borne the Lord Jesus.” 3) Mary was a perpetual virgin

                “Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary’s virginal womb… This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that. […] Christ… was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him.” 4) On the veneration of Mary

                “The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart.” 5) Mary is the mother of all Christians

                “Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees… If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother. 6) You can never honor Mary enough

                “[Mary is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ… She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures.”

                https://churchpop.com/2017/03/07/5-s...d-virgin-mary/
                Who cares for Luther's opinions bar those.
                who cannot substantiate their Marian theology
                with the apostolic word of God?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by James Swan View Post

                  What exactly was Haydock reading? Haydock's comment was in regard to Luke 11:27-28. Let's then see what Calvin's commentary on Luke 11:27-28 says. I suspect that's what Haydock was referring to.

                  Does Calvin deny that Mary was "blessed"? Calvin does say the woman who cried out "Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked" wasn't intending to refer to specifically to Mary, because, Calvin speculates, the woman probably had never met Mary, therefore she said it was "the womb that bore him" that was blessed, "for we know that offspring, and particularly when endued with distinguished virtues, is declared to be a remarkable gift of God, preferable to all others."

                  Here's the kicker though. Calvin then goes on to say, "It cannot even be denied that God conferred the highest honor on Mary, by choosing and appointing her to be the mother of his Son," and also, "In a word, the highest happiness and glory of the holy Virgin consisted in her being a member of his Son, so that the heavenly Father reckoned her in the number of new creatures."

                  Calvin goes into a lengthy explanation as to why Christ corrected the saying of the woman. Note the implication of the words below in bold.

                  "This woman, in applauding Christ, had left out what was of the very highest consequence, that in him salvation is exhibited to all; and, therefore, it was a feeble commendation, that made no mention of his grace and power, which is extended to all. Christ justly claims for himself another kind of praise, not that his mother alone is reckoned blessed, but that he brings to us all perfect and eternal happiness."

                  And also:

                  "We now see the difference between Christ's reply and the woman's commendation; for the blessedness, which she had limited to his own relatives, is a favor which he offers freely to all. He shows that we ought to entertain no ordinary esteem for him, because he has all the treasures of life, blessedness, and glory, hidden in him, which he dispenses by the word, that they may be communicated to those who embrace the word by faith; for God's free adoption of us, which we obtain by faith, is the key to the kingdom of heaven."

                  Regards,

                  JS
                  James Swan, I have been chastised and mocked in this thread for not giving proper reference, citations and links to quotes and I assume this rule is across the board and not just for Catholic posters. You'll have to provide citations for us Catholics to respond.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

                    I don't believe that those who accept other doctrines not explicity defined by Scripture, have a case against Mary's esteemed role on that account.
                    the catholic religion is based on beliefs not explicitly defined by scripture. Most have no basis found within scripture - just in the minds of the old men who made up the catholic religion.


                    "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                    The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

                      Implicity she asked Him to resolve the lack of wine situation.
                      she asked nothing.


                      "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                      The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Peitho View Post

                        Good to know that ST and your Magisterium are not equal to Scripture.
                        ? ?
                        ... For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed;...
                        But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. (Rom 13)

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by nan View Post

                          Twaddle. You claimed the magisterium is not superior to the word of God. Yet your Church claims otherwise.

                          "Sacred Tradition, Sacred Scripture and the Magisterium of the Church are so connected and associated that one of them cannot stand without the others."

                          The stool topples over without the teaching authority of your Church. Thus it is on an equal footing with the word of God.
                          What is your path from "is needed, with" to "on equal footing" to "is superior to"? Is that the "Bridge to Twaddle"? Or from the "Land of Twaddle"?
                          ... For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed;...
                          But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. (Rom 13)

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Thomas View Post

                            What is your path from "is needed, with" to "on equal footing" to "is superior to"? Is that the "Bridge to Twaddle"? Or from the "Land of Twaddle"?
                            That succession of supreme pontiffs
                            who desire an opportunity to be regarded
                            just as we
                            (the apostles) are in the things of which they boast.
                            ....... are false apostles
                            (2 Co 11:12-13).



                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Thomas View Post

                              Sigh......

                              Thanks for your opinions, but I must tell you you are very wrong. You stand on sand.
                              If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true (Jn 5:31).

                              I know how to deal with opinionated Roman Catholics,
                              by exposing their deception.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

                                You are out of touch with even today's Lutheran historians then.



                                “Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees… If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother.


                                “[Mary is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ… She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures.”

                                https://churchpop.com/2017/03/07/5-s...d-virgin-mary/
                                Thank God I am not in touch with Luther nor his students
                                for it says here (according to your quote) that Mary was / is
                                the Mother of all of us

                                and
                                his mother is also our mother.
                                when scripture, and The Pharisee say different

                                https://forums.carm.org/vb5/forum/ch...-seat-of-moses


                                and The Pharisee says
                                Galatians 4:26
                                But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
                                praise the Father that I am not so deceived to beleive
                                Mary is my Mother nor the Mother of the Church

                                then your reference, Merc; goes on to say;
                                Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures.
                                but he just did "injure Christ and the Scriptures"
                                when he claims Mary as our Mother
                                Lk.6:39
                                He also told them this parable:
                                Can the blind lead the blind?
                                Will they not both fall into a pit?
                                The student is not above the teacher,
                                but everyone who is fully trained
                                will be like their teacher
                                .
                                Mercedes;
                                if you won't go to Scripture for these things
                                then at least; find yourself some different teachers;
                                lest you also fall into the same pit they fell into
                                Last edited by Blackie-USMC; 10-14-18, 07:17 AM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X