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Hope of Salvation

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  • Hope of Salvation

    I'm curious about the Catholic verses Protestant perspective on this point.

    Catholic teaching is focused on nurturing the virtue of hope. That is the desire for salvation with the expectation of obtaining it. 1 Corinthians 13 describes the limits of our human understanding...

    "12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love."

    Protestant doctrine adds or replaces the virtue of hope with that of 'assurance'. ie a certainty of salvation.

    What is the nature of that certainty in Protestantism? Is it an infallible/inerrant certainty or does there remain the sliver of possibility that the individual limited by the dimly lit mirror, may be deceiving him/herself about their eternal fate?
    The crones love their cliques!

  • #2
    Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
    Catholic teaching is focused on nurturing the virtue of hope.
    Incorrect.

    Catholic teaching is focused on nurturing the virtue of crossing your fingers and wishing upon a star.

    That is NOT Christian hope.

    That is the desire for salvation with the expectation of obtaining it.
    1. Catholics have to ask why they have not yet been saved. They blab endlessly about Christ being their Savior, when in reality, these same Catholics deny they are saved to begin with!

    LOL.

    2. Christ followers do not hope they will be saved. They believe they ARE saved. I do not desire to be a male...as that is who I am.

    3. Only those who are SAVED can have Christian hope. If one is not saved, then they have no Christian hope. They can wish upon a star as much as they want, however.

    Protestant doctrine adds or replaces the virtue of hope with that of 'assurance'. ie a certainty of salvation.
    Ahem....cough cough....it is called EXPECTATION.

    Did you forget so soon?

    And why can Christ followers EXPECT to be sanctified and glorified? Because that is what God has promised all those in Christ.

    I also HOPE in Christ's return. That is because I have assurance He is going to return and I am certain of it.

    The horror!

    Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

    If Catholics are assured Christ is returning, and they are certain He will do so, then they too have HOPE in His return.

    But....you just rejected that they are so sure.

    We believe you!

    LOL.

    What is the nature of that certainty in Protestantism?
    It is called faith in God.

    Catholics have no clue what that means, because they detest surety and certainty in the promises of the Lord.

    ...
    "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."- John F. Kennedy

    Comment


    • #3
      If a person had actual trust in God they wouldn't have to check to be sure, Nor would they rub it in your face like chicken dinner.
      They got a little more reverence for God than to ever use him as a mere insult and spite of others.


      Romans 8

      24For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
        I'm curious about the Catholic verses Protestant perspective on this point.

        Catholic teaching is focused on nurturing the virtue of hope. That is the desire for salvation with the expectation of obtaining it. 1 Corinthians 13 describes the limits of our human understanding...

        "12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love."

        Protestant doctrine adds or replaces the virtue of hope with that of 'assurance'. ie a certainty of salvation.

        What is the nature of that certainty in Protestantism? Is it an infallible/inerrant certainty or does there remain the sliver of possibility that the individual limited by the dimly lit mirror, may be deceiving him/herself about their eternal fate?
        The elephant in the room is
        that RCs present a contradiction in terms: ;
        which is that Catholic baptism saves.and OSAS is ridiculed.



        .





        Last edited by Conqueror; 11-07-18, 02:43 AM.
        Servants of satan deceive by adding uninspired writers;
        like Luke the Greek, the author of Hebrews and James
        to the foundational prophets and apostles
        (Mat 13:25, Eph 2:20).

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
          I'm curious about the Catholic verses Protestant perspective on this point.

          Catholic teaching is focused on nurturing the virtue of hope. That is the desire for salvation with the expectation of obtaining it. 1 Corinthians 13 describes the limits of our human understanding...

          "12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love."

          Protestant doctrine adds or replaces the virtue of hope with that of 'assurance'. ie a certainty of salvation.

          What is the nature of that certainty in Protestantism? Is it an infallible/inerrant certainty or does there remain the sliver of possibility that the individual limited by the dimly lit mirror, may be deceiving him/herself about their eternal fate?
          Hope is fine. We should always hope. But the love and forgiveness of God is certain for those who repent and believe the Gospel Message.

          You should not have to merely hope that God brings his love into your life.

          Jesus said "Do not be anxious for tomorrow". You can be a part of His Kingdom today.

          I feel sorry for Catholics that do not trust Jesus and can only hope that someday they will be saved. Sad

          JohnR

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by utilyan View Post
            If a person had actual trust in God they wouldn't have to check to be sure, Nor would they rub it in your face like chicken dinner.
            They got a little more reverence for God than to ever use him as a mere insult and spite of others.


            Romans 8

            24For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees?
            I agree entirely No chicken dinner from me.

            JohnR

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
              I'm curious about the Catholic verses Protestant perspective on this point.

              Catholic teaching is focused on nurturing the virtue of hope. That is the desire for salvation with the expectation of obtaining it. 1 Corinthians 13 describes the limits of our human understanding...

              "12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love."

              Protestant doctrine adds or replaces the virtue of hope with that of 'assurance'. ie a certainty of salvation.

              What is the nature of that certainty in Protestantism? Is it an infallible/inerrant certainty or does there remain the sliver of possibility that the individual limited by the dimly lit mirror, may be deceiving him/herself about their eternal fate?
              The greek word for hope simply means a joyful expectation. We have that joyful expectation of the Lords return, our glorification and subsequent eternity in heaven.




              Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
                I'm curious about the Catholic verses Protestant perspective on this point.

                Catholic teaching is focused on nurturing the virtue of hope. That is the desire for salvation with the expectation of obtaining it. 1 Corinthians 13 describes the limits of our human understanding...

                "12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love."

                Protestant doctrine adds or replaces the virtue of hope with that of 'assurance'. ie a certainty of salvation.

                What is the nature of that certainty in Protestantism? Is it an infallible/inerrant certainty or does there remain the sliver of possibility that the individual limited by the dimly lit mirror, may be deceiving him/herself about their eternal fate?
                1Co 13:13 — And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

                And now~ bringing out the contrast with the transient gifts listed in verse 8...with the permanence of faith, hope, charity in verse 13.

                abideth ~ Used in an absolute sense, with the idea of perpetuity, i.e., to remain or endure forever, to be perpetual, e.g., Christian graces, rewards, institutes. "Now there remains faith, hope, love" (The Complete Word Study)

                1Co 13:8 — Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
                Let thy mercies come also unto me, O LORD, even thy salvation, according to thy word. So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word. (Ps. 119:41-42)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by highrigger View Post

                  Hope is fine. We should always hope. But the love and forgiveness of God is certain for those who repent and believe the Gospel Message.

                  You should not have to merely hope that God brings his love into your life.

                  Jesus said "Do not be anxious for tomorrow". You can be a part of His Kingdom today.

                  I feel sorry for Catholics that do not trust Jesus and can only hope that someday they will be saved. Sad

                  JohnR
                  You don't need to feel sorry for Catholics at all. Hope is wonderful thing and more importantly, it affords us the fullness of Scripture. The idea of 'born again' and being no longer accountable to the commands of Christ by divine guarantee of salvation regardless of the state of our soul, is dangerous false teaching and and affront to Christ. To take one example...

                  Matthew 24 12 And because of the increase of lawlessness, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.

                  Catholic teaching regards this verse as an imperative instruction to endure to the end in order to have salvation. I understand Protestants to believe that that is only an ideal but not necessary to salvation. Even if one doesn't endure they are still saved by the eternal guarantee given at the date of being 'born again'. This verse does not apply to them.
                  The crones love their cliques!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
                    I'm curious about the Catholic verses Protestant perspective on this point.

                    Catholic teaching is focused on nurturing the virtue of hope. That is the desire for salvation with the expectation of obtaining it. 1 Corinthians 13 describes the limits of our human understanding...

                    "12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then we will see face to face. Now I know only in part; then I will know fully, even as I have been fully known. 13 And now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; and the greatest of these is love."

                    Protestant doctrine adds or replaces the virtue of hope with that of 'assurance'. ie a certainty of salvation.

                    What is the nature of that certainty in Protestantism? Is it an infallible/inerrant certainty or does there remain the sliver of possibility that the individual limited by the dimly lit mirror, may be deceiving him/herself about their eternal fate?
                    I would also add the question, what reasoning is used to warrant the 'assurance' is properly held? Is it 'wishful thinking?' Just how does the Protestant come to the conclusion they are saved in this world?

                    JoeT
                    Sigillum Militum Χρisti † / "Truth exists. The Incarnation happened."

                    Totus Tuus, "Totally yours . . . Keep me in this union".

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Atemi View Post

                      Incorrect.

                      Catholic teaching is focused on nurturing the virtue of crossing your fingers and wishing upon a star.

                      That is NOT Christian hope.



                      1. Catholics have to ask why they have not yet been saved. They blab endlessly about Christ being their Savior, when in reality, these same Catholics deny they are saved to begin with!

                      LOL.

                      2. Christ followers do not hope they will be saved. They believe they ARE saved. I do not desire to be a male...as that is who I am.

                      3. Only those who are SAVED can have Christian hope. If one is not saved, then they have no Christian hope. They can wish upon a star as much as they want, however.



                      Ahem....cough cough....it is called EXPECTATION.

                      Did you forget so soon?

                      And why can Christ followers EXPECT to be sanctified and glorified? Because that is what God has promised all those in Christ.

                      I also HOPE in Christ's return. That is because I have assurance He is going to return and I am certain of it.

                      The horror!

                      Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

                      If Catholics are assured Christ is returning, and they are certain He will do so, then they too have HOPE in His return.

                      But....you just rejected that they are so sure.

                      We believe you!

                      LOL.



                      It is called faith in God.

                      Catholics have no clue what that means, because they detest surety and certainty in the promises of the Lord.

                      ...
                      If you have assurance, what need is there for hope?

                      None at all.

                      Blessings
                      May the most holy, most sacred, most adorable, most incomprehensible and ineffable Name of God be forever praised, blessed, loved, adored and glorified in Heaven, on Earth, and under the Earth by all the creatures of God and by the Sacred Heart of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar. Amen.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post

                        The greek word for hope simply means a joyful expectation. We have that joyful expectation of the Lords return, our glorification and subsequent eternity in heaven.
                        Unless you are re writing the nature of 'joyful expectation', it is not considered to be an objective certainty as Protestant doctrine asserts. Certainty about things not yet seen implies a divine capacity to know the mind of God, whereas hope, manifests confidence in the promises of Christ that flows from the obedience to His commands.

                        1 John 2 3 Now by this we may be sure that we know him, if we obey his commandments. 4 Whoever says, I have come to know him, but does not obey his commandments, is a liar, and in such a person the truth does not exist; 5 but whoever obeys his word, truly in this person the love of God has reached perfection. By this we may be sure that we are in him: 6 whoever says, I abide in him, ought to walk just as he walked.

                        The crones love their cliques!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JoeT View Post
                          Just how does the Protestant come to the conclusion they are saved in this world?
                          Catholics have no clue if they are right with God or not.

                          They scoff at being in the very state the Savior places people.

                          Of course, if Christ is not your Savior, you are not saved. Only those who have Christ as their Savior are saved.

                          As you testify, Christ as Savior is alien to the Roman Catholic.

                          "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."- John F. Kennedy

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Philomena View Post
                            If you have assurance, what need is there for hope?
                            I agree that if a Christ follower has assurance in the promises of Christ, that he/she has zero need for Catholic hope and crossing his/her fingers.

                            No need for wishing upon a star at all when you are a Christ follower.

                            We know you Catholics have zero assurance that Christ is coming again. You doubt and you deny because faith is almost nowhere to be found at your local parish.

                            ...

                            "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."- John F. Kennedy

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
                              Unless you are re writing the nature of 'joyful expectation', it is not considered to be an objective certainty as Protestant doctrine asserts.
                              In the broken Catholic mind, their "hope" = uncertainty.

                              Catholics make this claim because they lack faith in Christ.

                              ...
                              "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."- John F. Kennedy

                              Comment

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