Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

God breathed writings that are not in the Canon?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • God breathed writings that are not in the Canon?

    pasa graphe theopneustos (II Timothy 3:16)
    All Scripture is God-breathed

    But are all God-breathed writings* Scripture?


    Are there God-breathed writings* that should not be included in the Canon?
    Is there a list of God breathed writings* that are not in the Canon?

    (*that we have access to)
    One of the ekklēsia

  • #2
    Originally posted by tester View Post
    (II Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is God-breathed.
    OF course that's the DEFINITION of "Scripture". God's WORD = Everything that GOD SAYS. IF it's not "god breathed" then it's only theological opinion.

    But are all God-breathed writings Scripture?
    Nope - BUT They carry exactly the SAME SPIRITUAL WEIGHT AND AUTHORITY as "scripture", and apply to whomever their context indicates.

    {quote] Are there God-breathed writings that should not be included in the Canon?[/QUOTE]

    Sure!! God-breathed Messages to individual believers, for example, God instructed ME to join a company in Carrollton, TX back in '88, But That's MY "God Breathed instruction", not yours.

    Is there a list of God breathed writings that are not in the Canon?
    Sure the "Book of Mormon" is one - According to the "LDS management" (wink, wink)
    Last edited by Bob Carabbio; 11-10-18, 06:12 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by tester View Post
      pasa graphe theopneustos (II Timothy 3:16)
      All Scripture is God-breathed

      But are all God-breathed writings* Scripture?


      Are there God-breathed writings* that should not be included in the Canon?
      Is there a list of God breathed writings* that are not in the Canon?

      (*that we have access to)
      St Faustina's diaries. The message of Fatima. Teresa of Avila's Interior Castle.
      The crones love their cliques!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Mercedes View Post
        St Faustina's diaries. The message of Fatima. Teresa of Avila's Interior Castle.
        Where in the catechism does it teach Faustina's diaries are the infallible Word of God?

        I can't find that paragraph anywhere!

        We would hate to think Catholics would post here like false prophets declaring "Thus saith the Lord"...and are making it all up as they go.

        No Catholic would dare be that evil to speak for both their sect and God....would they?

        Not possible. Surely you got all that straight from the catechism because you would never make anything up and try and post it as fact. The wafers you worship would stop you and the beads you count would prevent you.

        Surely, right?

        ...

        "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."- John F. Kennedy

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

          St Faustina's diaries. The message of Fatima. Teresa of Avila's Interior Castle.
          show us where they were declared God-breathed writings.
          Last edited by tester; 11-11-18, 07:31 AM.
          One of the ekklēsia

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by tester View Post
            pasa graphe theopneustos (II Timothy 3:16)
            All Scripture is God-breathed
            All Scripture is certainly God breathed. But Scripture is not the only thing God breathed. Notice that Scripture itself says that the Holy Spirit INSPIRED holy men to speak:

            2 Pet 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
            20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
            21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

            Thus, men who are deemed holy by God, are also God breathed.

            But are all God-breathed writings* Scripture?
            Yes. By definition. If it is God breathed writing, it is Holy Scripture.

            Are there God-breathed writings* that should not be included in the Canon?
            No.

            Is there a list of God breathed writings* that are not in the Canon?
            Which canon? The Protestant canon does not include all God breathed Scripture.

            (*that we have access to)
            Perhaps the question you want to ask is whether all the God breathed Scriptures have been officially recognized by the authority which God placed on this earth to do so? In other words, has the Catholic Church closed the canon on Scripture? The answer is, "no".

            The Catholic Church's last pronouncement on Scripture was in the Council of Trent. There, she infallibly confirmed that the 73 books of the Latin Vulgate were definitely inspired by God and anathematized anyone who declared otherwise. However, she did not, at the same time, declare that the Orthodox 88 book canon was not inspired. In other words, she did not say, "only these 73 books are inspired and no others." She said, "these 73 books are inspired and anyone who says otherwise is anathematized." (the preceding is not a direct quote).

            Pray!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by tester View Post
              pasa graphe theopneustos (II Timothy 3:16)
              All Scripture is God-breathed

              But are all God-breathed writings* Scripture?


              Are there God-breathed writings* that should not be included in the Canon?
              Is there a list of God breathed writings* that are not in the Canon?

              (*that we have access to)
              in another thread (that led to this one beng created)
              I asked Open Heart:

              Originally posted by tester View Post
              "I want you to be crystal clear:
              Are you saying that there are God-breathed writings* that do not belong in the Canon?"
              -----------------

              Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
              I think so. IMHO, I would say that The Singer by Calvin Miller, Tales of Gletha the Goatlady, and The Lord of the Rings are examples of books I have come across that I think are inspired by God, though inappropriate to be part of canon.
              ----------------

              Wow!!
              such a low standard for what is a God-breathed writings


              One of the ekklēsia

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Atemi View Post

                Where in the catechism does it teach Faustina's diaries are the infallible Word of God?

                I can't find that paragraph anywhere!

                We would hate to think Catholics would post here like false prophets declaring "Thus saith the Lord"...and are making it all up as they go.

                No Catholic would dare be that evil to speak for both their sect and God....would they?

                Not possible. Surely you got all that straight from the catechism because you would never make anything up and try and post it as fact. The wafers you worship would stop you and the beads you count would prevent you.

                Surely, right?

                ...
                How many times have you turned on the TV and some Evangelical is saying, "God told me to tell you such and such."??? Are they inspired by God? For example, there's a book called the Fireman's prophecy that says that God inspired that man to prophecy that Trump would be the next president? Do you want that prophecy included in Scripture?
                Pray!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Here's the problem with your question, Tester. You shouldn't be asking Catholics. We have an authority which tells us which books are Scripture. You and your evangelical friends don't. You will sit and ponder this question over and over. And you will get a different answer anytime you ask a different person. Since you will accept no authority except your own understanding, you will simply argue about this question to death. And you will not be happy until no one has any certainty about it because you want Catholics to be just like you.

                  But we have an authority which Jesus Christ established to Teach us His Truths, infallibly. We accept her Teachings on what is God breathed Scripture.
                  Pray!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by De Maria View Post

                    All Scripture is certainly God breathed. But Scripture is not the only thing God breathed. Notice that Scripture itself says that the Holy Spirit INSPIRED holy men to speak:

                    2 Pet 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
                    20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
                    21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

                    Thus, men who are deemed holy by God, are also God breathed.

                    Yes. By definition. If it is God breathed writing, it is Holy Scripture.

                    No.

                    Which canon? The Protestant canon does not include all God breathed Scripture.

                    Perhaps the question you want to ask is whether all the God breathed Scriptures have been officially recognized by the authority which God placed on this earth to do so? In other words, has the Catholic Church closed the canon on Scripture? The answer is, "no".

                    The Catholic Church's last pronouncement on Scripture was in the Council of Trent. There, she infallibly confirmed that the 73 books of the Latin Vulgate were definitely inspired by God and anathematized anyone who declared otherwise. However, she did not, at the same time, declare that the Orthodox 88 book canon was not inspired. In other words, she did not say, "only these 73 books are inspired and no others." She said, "these 73 books are inspired and anyone who says otherwise is anathematized." (the preceding is not a direct quote).
                    Originally posted by De Maria View Post
                    Here's the problem with your question, Tester. You shouldn't be asking Catholics. We have an authority which tells us which books are Scripture. You and your evangelical friends don't. You will sit and ponder this question over and over. And you will get a different answer anytime you ask a different person. Since you will accept no authority except your own understanding, you will simply argue about this question to death. And you will not be happy until no one has any certainty about it because you want Catholics to be just like you.

                    But we have an authority which Jesus Christ established to Teach us His Truths, infallibly. We accept her Teachings on what is God breathed Scripture.
                    Here is the problem

                    In another thread; Open Heart is arguing that the books in Canon and books that are God-breathed need not match.


                    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
                    Who is to say that only the books in the canon are God breathed? The point about canon is that it is canon, and God breathed. Not that it is exclusively God breathed, but that it is exclusively known to us as being God breathed.

                    As proof: Open Heart uses the The Singer by Calvin Miller, Tales of Gletha the Goatlady, and The Lord of the Rings

                    Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
                    I think so. IMHO, I would say that The Singer by Calvin Miller, Tales of Gletha the Goatlady, and The Lord of the Rings are examples of books I have come across that I think are inspired by God, though inappropriate to be part of canon.

                    will any Catholic clearly correct Open Heart?
                    One of the ekklēsia

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tester View Post
                      Here is the problem

                      In another thread; Open Heart is arguing that the books in Canon and books that are God-breathed need not match.


                      Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
                      Who is to say that only the books in the canon are God breathed? The point about canon is that it is canon, and God breathed. Not that it is exclusively God breathed, but that it is exclusively known to us as being God breathed.

                      As proof: Open Heart uses the The Singer by Calvin Miller, Tales of Gletha the Goatlady, and The Lord of the Rings

                      Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
                      I think so. IMHO, I would say that The Singer by Calvin Miller, Tales of Gletha the Goatlady, and The Lord of the Rings are examples of books I have come across that I think are inspired by God, though inappropriate to be part of canon.

                      will any Catholic clearly correct Open Heart?
                      Are you kidding? EDIT PER MOD
                      Last edited by 4Him; 11-12-18, 04:17 PM. Reason: violation rule 22

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mercedes View Post

                        St Faustina's diaries. The message of Fatima. Teresa of Avila's Interior Castle.
                        I knew it, I knew it; I knew someone would bring up RCC's Mary.

                        But you should have mentioned the Pope's ex-cathedra.
                        1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by tester View Post
                          Here is the problem

                          In another thread; Open Heart is arguing that the books in Canon and books that are God-breathed need not match.


                          Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
                          Who is to say that only the books in the canon are God breathed? The point about canon is that it is canon, and God breathed. Not that it is exclusively God breathed, but that it is exclusively known to us as being God breathed.
                          I agree with that. Here's what I said in my reply to you which matches that statement.

                          "Perhaps the question you want to ask is whether all the God breathed Scriptures have been officially recognized by the authority which God placed on this earth to do so? In other words, has the Catholic Church closed the canon on Scripture? The answer is, "no"."

                          As proof: Open Heart uses the The Singer by Calvin Miller, Tales of Gletha the Goatlady, and The Lord of the Rings

                          Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
                          I think so. IMHO, I would say that The Singer by Calvin Miller, Tales of Gletha the Goatlady, and The Lord of the Rings are examples of books I have come across that I think are inspired by God, though inappropriate to be part of canon.

                          will any Catholic clearly correct Open Heart?
                          Again, as proof, I challenged you to tell me whether all those preachers who claim that God told them to say this or that, are inspired. And also asked you about the Fireman's prophecy, which claims that God revealed to him that Trump would be president.

                          So? Are you arguing that these examples should be canonized?

                          Pray!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tester View Post
                            pasa graphe theopneustos (II Timothy 3:16)
                            All Scripture is God-breathed

                            But are all God-breathed writings* Scripture?


                            Are there God-breathed writings* that should not be included in the Canon?
                            Is there a list of God breathed writings* that are not in the Canon?

                            (*that we have access to)

                            The Catholic Apocrypha should not be in Scripture. It teaches the bad practice of torturing and burning heretics and praying to the dead and

                            paying for pardons from sin, that were popular practices in the days of Trent and for centuries. Even now their CCC uses those verses

                            to justify paying for Masses to pardon their dead relatives from Purgatory.

                            Does anyone every try to explain why it contains anything inspiring?

                            JohnR

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by De Maria View Post

                              I agree with that. Here's what I said in my reply to you which matches that statement.

                              "Perhaps the question you want to ask is whether all the God breathed Scriptures have been officially recognized by the authority which God placed on this earth to do so? In other words, has the Catholic Church closed the canon on Scripture? The answer is, "no"."



                              Again, as proof, I challenged you to tell me whether all those preachers who claim that God told them to say this or that, are inspired. And also asked you about the Fireman's prophecy, which claims that God revealed to him that Trump would be president.

                              So? Are you arguing that these examples should be canonized?
                              you agree that
                              "that the books in the Canon and books that are God-breathed need not match."
                              ??

                              i am not arguing that those examples should be canonized.

                              My point is
                              books in the Canon and books that are God-breathed SHOULD match.
                              Set A = books in the Canon
                              Set B = books that are God-breathed (that we have access do)

                              Set A= Set B

                              I am asking Catholics:
                              Should books in the Canon and books that are God-breathed match.?
                              apparently Catholics do not think so!
                              That is what this thread is about
                              Last edited by tester; 11-11-18, 02:42 PM.
                              One of the ekklēsia

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X