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Works based salvation?

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  • Works based salvation?

    Originally posted by De Maria View Post

    Yes. Because we are saved by faith AND works.

    So, does the Catholic church teach we are saved by faith and works, which is a works based salvation? Yay or nay?
    ~~~My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My Father's hand~~~

  • #2
    I'll grab my popcorn before all the Catholic contradictions begins. Lol

    Comment


    • #3
      Catholicism is just another works based religion which denies the saving Gospel of Jesus Christ.
      "Cults use Christian terminology, but redefine terms to suit their own belief and practices."-Dr. Walter Martin

      Catholicism's doctrines of demons:

      1TI 4:1 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
      1TI 4:3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by 4Him View Post


        So, does the Catholic church teach we are saved by faith and works, which is a works based salvation? Yay or nay?
        Hi 4Him,

        We are saved by grace.

        Let us pray for one another and love one another.
        -Ray-

        The Good News is that Jesus Christ died and rose for our sins so that we might be saved.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by relling View Post

          Hi 4Him,

          We are saved by grace.

          Let us pray for one another and love one another.
          By meriting it?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by relling View Post

            Hi 4Him,

            We are saved by grace.

            Let us pray for one another and love one another.
            Do you disagree with the OP promoting works based salvation?
            ~~~My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My Father's hand~~~

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by 4Him View Post


              So, does the Catholic church teach we are saved by faith and works, which is a works based salvation? Yay or nay?
              Depends which way the wind is blowing on a particular day. One day yes, the next day no. At any rate, this should be fun....we need a popcorn emoji.
              Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post

                Depends which way the wind is blowing on a particular day. One day yes, the next day no. At any rate, this should be fun....we need a popcorn emoji.
                🍿🍿🍿

                Enjoy 😉
                ~~~My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My Father's hand~~~

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Angels_Sing View Post

                  By meriting it?
                  2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. ...

                  Keep in mind that most nCCs on CARM do not believe that justification can grow, there is only initial justification, which is static and not dynamic, a 0/1 proposition, an either/or proposition. The Catholic Church teaches that we can grow in justification for the simple reason that God has revealed it. So when you quote to me the rest of paragraph 2010 and say "See, the Catholic Church teaches that you can merit justification/salvation" you are comparing apples and oranges. While we may disagree on whether justification can grow, we both agree that we can't merit the initial grace of justification.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 4Him View Post


                    So, does the Catholic church teach we are saved by faith and works, which is a works based salvation? Yay or nay?
                    which is a works based salvation

                    Nay.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by kirby View Post

                      2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. ...

                      Keep in mind that most nCCs on CARM do not believe that justification can grow, there is only initial justification, which is static and not dynamic, a 0/1 proposition, an either/or proposition. The Catholic Church teaches that we can grow in justification for the simple reason that God has revealed it. So when you quote to me the rest of paragraph 2010 and say "See, the Catholic Church teaches that you can merit justification/salvation" you are comparing apples and oranges. While we may disagree on whether justification can grow, we both agree that we can't merit the initial grace of justification.
                      We grow in faith not justification.

                      Justification means to be rendered innocent. Do you think you become more innocent by merit???

                      Also, scripture doesn’t teach “initial justification “.....
                      ~~~My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My Father's hand~~~

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kirby View Post
                        which is a works based salvation

                        Nay.
                        So you disagree with the OP which clearly says you are saved by faith and works?
                        ~~~My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My Father's hand~~~

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by kirby View Post

                          2010 Since the initiative belongs to God in the order of grace, no one can merit the initial grace of forgiveness and justification, at the beginning of conversion. ...

                          Keep in mind that most nCCs on CARM do not believe that justification can grow, there is only initial justification, which is static and not dynamic, a 0/1 proposition, an either/or proposition. The Catholic Church teaches that we can grow in justification for the simple reason that God has revealed it. So when you quote to me the rest of paragraph 2010 and say "See, the Catholic Church teaches that you can merit justification/salvation" you are comparing apples and oranges. While we may disagree on whether justification can grow, we both agree that we can't merit the initial grace of justification.
                          Even the invincibly ignorant have to work for it.
                          1260 "Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery." Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of his Church, but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired Baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity.
                          Its all nonsense but hey, its your ccc. How those ignorant of God can still do His will is beyond me. More confusion from the rcc.
                          Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by 4Him View Post

                            So you disagree with the OP which clearly says you are saved by faith and works?
                            No, I disagree with the OP in which you clearly imply that the CC teaches a works based salvation.

                            You are doing a bait and switch.

                            Can someone please post a reliable Catholic source which states we are saved by faith and works apart from Grace.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by 4Him View Post

                              We grow in faith not justification.

                              Justification means to be rendered innocent. Do you think you become more innocent by merit???

                              Also, scripture doesn’t teach “initial justification “.....
                              Justification means to be rendered innocent.

                              Bible verse please, stating the definition and that no other definition is allowed.

                              Comment

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