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John 6: 53-54

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  • #61
    Originally posted by utilyan View Post

    Our favorite scripture to proving it is Jesus said take this and eat it, this is my body.


    "How many times does somebody have to eat it to have eternal life? Is once enough?"

    The Mechanics are not up to us. I think it has to do with ACTUAL faith in Jesus. To quote Jesus:

    John 3

    12“If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?


    You have placed the SAY-SO of your own sense of reliability and reason above the word of God.

    The western pagan idea is things done spiritually are of an alternate ghost reality does not work with Jesus. When they do things spiritually they are of higher reality. They are not secondary or of emphasized pretending.


    "Verse 53 clearly says that unless we eat His Flesh and Drink His blood that we have no life in us. Your church says that those who don't eat His flesh and drink His blood, do have life in them.

    Who's correct? Christ or your church?"

    Let us the church declare that those who don't have eternal life then, instead of doing the talking for us.


    I could easily separate the concept of Christ and my Church if my church was trash man-made institution.

    But since my church is the body of Christ itself inclusive of Jesus Christ, it does not apply


    You want to shut my church down? shut Jesus Christ down and you have succeed.
    Here my favorite - supports Sacramental Union

    1 Corinthians 11

    23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

    24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

    25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

    26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

    27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

    28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

    29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
    2 Timothy 3
    16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Stepping Heavenward View Post
      A Catholics very favorite scripture that they always turn to for proving that the Eucharist is His real flesh and real blood is...

      John 6:"53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

      So simple questions that shouldn't be very hard to answer.

      How many times does somebody have to eat it to have eternal life? Is once enough?

      Verse 53 clearly says that unless we eat His Flesh and Drink His blood that we have no life in us. Your church says that those who don't eat His flesh and drink His blood, do have life in them.

      Who's correct? Christ or your church?
      Are you really interested in the answer of the Catholic Church?
      Open Heart, who loves the Lord.

      "Torah is not education, it's transformation." – Rebbitzen Dena Weinberg

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Open Heart View Post
        How many times does somebody have to eat it to have eternal life? Is once enough?

        Verse 53 clearly says that unless we eat His Flesh and Drink His blood that we have no life in us. Your church says that those who don't eat His flesh and drink His blood, do have life in them.

        Who's correct? Christ or your church?


        Are you really interested in the answer of the Catholic Church?
        No one thought you would answer.
        "The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic."- John F. Kennedy

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Open Heart View Post

          Are you really interested in the answer of the Catholic Church?
          My question was who is correct?

          Obviously it was a rhetorical question, because Catholics will say that their roman catholic church is correct and that their position doesn't really differ from the scripture, but maybe you didn't understand that my real desire here is to discuss this topic.

          So let's begin again.

          If the verses in John 6 are about the roman catholic eucharist as the roman catholic church teaches, it would seem we have a conundrum.

          Some will never eat the bread or drink the cup of the roman catholic eucharist and yet the roman catholic church says they can still be saved.

          This Scripture in John 6 spoken by Jesus Himself says that if we don't eat His flesh and drink His blood we can not have eternal life.

          Furthermore, the roman catholic church says that some that do eat the bread and drink the cup of the roman catholic eucharist will not have eternal life.

          In John 6 Christ says those who do eat his flesh and drink His blood will have eternal life and that He will raise them up on the last day.

          My conclusion is that when these scriptures are approached logically;

          either Christ didn't mean the roman catholic eucharist when He said the things He did in John 6 or the roman catholic church is wrong and those that don't eat it can't be saved and those that do will be saved and raised up on the last day.

          Why is my conclusion incorrect?

          Why are people forced to twist the logical conclusion of Christ's Words in order to fit the teachings of the roman catholic church?




          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Stepping Heavenward View Post

            My question was who is correct?

            Obviously it was a rhetorical question, because Catholics will say that their roman catholic church is correct and that their position doesn't really differ from the scripture, but maybe you didn't understand that my real desire here is to discuss this topic.

            So let's begin again.

            If the verses in John 6 are about the roman catholic eucharist as the roman catholic church teaches, it would seem we have a conundrum.

            Some will never eat the bread or drink the cup of the roman catholic eucharist and yet the roman catholic church says they can still be saved.

            This Scripture in John 6 spoken by Jesus Himself says that if we don't eat His flesh and drink His blood we can not have eternal life.

            Furthermore, the roman catholic church says that some that do eat the bread and drink the cup of the roman catholic eucharist will not have eternal life.

            In John 6 Christ says those who do eat his flesh and drink His blood will have eternal life and that He will raise them up on the last day.

            My conclusion is that when these scriptures are approached logically;

            either Christ didn't mean the roman catholic eucharist when He said the things He did in John 6 or the roman catholic church is wrong and those that don't eat it can't be saved and those that do will be saved and raised up on the last day.

            Why is my conclusion incorrect?

            Why are people forced to twist the logical conclusion of Christ's Words in order to fit the teachings of the roman catholic church?



            The Eucharist is not the means of salvation; Baptism is. The Eucharist is for the baptized for the purpose of maintaining and growing in the spiritual life.

            Blessings
            May the most holy, most sacred, most adorable, most incomprehensible and ineffable Name of God be forever praised, blessed, loved, adored and glorified in Heaven, on Earth, and under the Earth by all the creatures of God and by the Sacred Heart of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar. Amen.

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by Philomena View Post

              The Eucharist is not the means of salvation; Baptism is. The Eucharist is for the baptized for the purpose of maintaining and growing in the spiritual life.

              Blessings
              Why do you skirt the questions.

              Why then is John 6 used as support of the roman catholic teaching on the Eucharist?

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Stepping Heavenward View Post

                My question was who is correct?

                Obviously it was a rhetorical question, because Catholics will say that their roman catholic church is correct and that their position doesn't really differ from the scripture, but maybe you didn't understand that my real desire here is to discuss this topic.

                So let's begin again.

                If the verses in John 6 are about the roman catholic eucharist as the roman catholic church teaches, it would seem we have a conundrum.
                Please explain, how can it be a conundrum to do as Christ commanded. You say "I believe" yet you are unwilling to "do this" as he commanded.

                Some will never eat the bread or drink the cup of the roman catholic eucharist and yet the roman catholic church says they can still be saved.
                Where is it written by the Catholic Church that one who desires eternal life need not believe in Christ and His word;

                "Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day." [John 6:54-55]

                Do you comprehend the words less and except you eat the flesh of the Son of man . . . Where is the conundrum except in your own mind?

                This Scripture in John 6 spoken by Jesus Himself says that if we don't eat His flesh and drink His blood we can not have eternal life.

                Furthermore, the roman catholic church says that some that do eat the bread and drink the cup of the roman catholic eucharist will not have eternal life.
                Please explain where this is stated. I believe it something you've using wrongly to justify your own infidelity.

                In John 6 Christ says those who do eat his flesh and drink His blood will have eternal life and that He will raise them up on the last day.

                My conclusion is that when these scriptures are approached logically;

                either Christ didn't mean the roman catholic eucharist when He said the things He did in John 6 or the roman catholic church is wrong and those that don't eat it can't be saved and those that do will be saved and raised up on the last day.

                Why is my conclusion incorrect?

                Why are people forced to twist the logical conclusion of Christ's Words in order to fit the teachings of the roman catholic church?
                My conclusion is somewhat different because it is not true that knowing that one must partake in the "Real Presence" of Christ is to reject Christ. How would such a position warrant a toehold in heaven? Do you intend to explain to Catholics how they really don't believe Scripture by partaking of the Real Presence of Christ?

                JoeT





                Sigillum Militum Χρisti † / "Truth exists. The Incarnation happened."

                Totus Tuus, "Totally yours . . . Keep me in this union".

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by JoeT View Post

                  Please explain, how can it be a conundrum to do as Christ commanded. You say "I believe" yet you are unwilling to "do this" as he commanded.
                  If you kept reading I explained it.



                  Where is it written by the Catholic Church that one who desires eternal life need not believe in Christ and His word

                  "Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day." [John 6:54-55]
                  I never said that the Catholic Church wrote that one who desires eternal life need not believe in Christ and His word.

                  Do you comprehend the words less and except you eat the flesh of the Son of man . . . Where is the conundrum except in your own mind?





                  Please explain where this is stated. I believe it something you've using wrongly to justify your own infidelity.
                  Are you obstinate in trying to understand my plain words. There's nothing hard here.

                  Either Christ said we had to eat his flesh and drink his blood to have eternal life, and meant it, or He didn't. Which is it?



                  My conclusion is somewhat different because it is not true that knowing that one must partake in the "Real Presence" of Christ is to reject Christ.
                  Where did I say that? Is there a language barrier here possibly?


                  How would such a position warrant a toehold in heaven? Do you intend to explain to Catholics how they really don't believe Scripture by partaking of the Real Presence of Christ?

                  JoeT
                  Just answer this simple question

                  If when scripture says in John 6 "So Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life in yourselves" it was actually talking about the roman catholic eucharist how is then that those who don't eat his flesh and drink his blood in the Eucharist can still have life in themselves according to your roman catholic church?

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Stepping Heavenward View Post

                    Why do you skirt the questions.
                    They were incorrect.

                    Why then is John 6 used as support of the roman catholic teaching on the Eucharist?
                    Because it is Jesus' teaching on the Eucharist.


                    Blessings
                    May the most holy, most sacred, most adorable, most incomprehensible and ineffable Name of God be forever praised, blessed, loved, adored and glorified in Heaven, on Earth, and under the Earth by all the creatures of God and by the Sacred Heart of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar. Amen.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Stepping Heavenward View Post
                      If when scripture says in John 6 "So Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life in yourselves" it was actually talking about the roman catholic eucharist how is then that those who don't eat his flesh and drink his blood in the Eucharist can still have life in themselves according to your roman catholic church?
                      John 6's flesh and blood is connected to the bread and wine here:

                      And whilst they were at supper, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke: and gave to his disciples, and said: Take ye, and eat. This is my body. And taking the chalice, he gave thanks, and gave to them, saying: Drink ye all of this. For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins." [Matthew 26:26-28]

                      He gave us a un-bloodied flesh and blood.

                      JoeT

                      Sigillum Militum Χρisti † / "Truth exists. The Incarnation happened."

                      Totus Tuus, "Totally yours . . . Keep me in this union".

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by JoeT View Post

                        John 6's flesh and blood is connected to the bread and wine here:

                        And whilst they were at supper, Jesus took bread, and blessed, and broke: and gave to his disciples, and said: Take ye, and eat. This is my body. And taking the chalice, he gave thanks, and gave to them, saying: Drink ye all of this. For this is my blood of the new testament, which shall be shed for many unto remission of sins." [Matthew 26:26-28]

                        He gave us a un-bloodied flesh and blood.

                        JoeT
                        I didn't ask you whether you believe it is his flesh and blood in an unbloody manner.

                        I asked you

                        If when scripture says in John 6 "So Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life in yourselves" it was actually talking about the roman catholic eucharist how is it then that those who don't eat his flesh and drink his blood in the Eucharist can still have life in themselves according to the roman catholic church?

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Stepping Heavenward View Post

                          I didn't ask you whether you believe it is his flesh and blood in an unbloody manner.

                          I asked you

                          If when scripture says in John 6 "So Jesus said to them, "Truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life in yourselves" it was actually talking about the roman catholic eucharist how is it then that those who don't eat his flesh and drink his blood in the Eucharist can still have life in themselves according to the roman catholic church?
                          Those who don't eat His flesh and drink His blood don't have eternal life. [Cf. John 6:54] How is it you think that you can have eternal life without partaking of the Real Presence of Christ?

                          JoeT
                          Last edited by JoeT; 02-20-19, 09:19 PM.
                          Sigillum Militum Χρisti † / "Truth exists. The Incarnation happened."

                          Totus Tuus, "Totally yours . . . Keep me in this union".

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by JoeT View Post

                            Those who don't eat His flesh and drink His blood don't have eternal life. [Cf. John 6:54] How is it you think that you can have eternal life without partaking of the Real Presence of Christ?

                            JoeT
                            Your Church teaches that John 6 is about the Eucharist. So those who don't take the Eucharist, don't have eternal life?

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Philomena View Post

                              They were incorrect.
                              Questions can't be incorrect. They can only be answered.



                              Because it is Jesus' teaching on the Eucharist.


                              Blessings
                              You don't answer because it will condemn your church. You know it and I know it.

                              John 6 can not be about the Eucharist, or your Church lies when it says that those who don't partake can be saved.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Stepping Heavenward View Post

                                Your Church teaches that John 6 is about the Eucharist. So those who don't take the Eucharist, don't have eternal life?
                                Your not reading my post! I said those who don't partake of the Eucharist, the Real Presence, don't have eternal life. You are absolutely correct, those who DO NOT participate, DO NOT have eternal life - rather simple concept isn't it?

                                You're the worshipper of BOOK, doesn't it record Christ's words, "Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you?" Does not BOOK worship include doing what Jesus Christ commands? Did He not say "This is my Body", "This is my Blood"?

                                JoeT
                                Sigillum Militum Χρisti † / "Truth exists. The Incarnation happened."

                                Totus Tuus, "Totally yours . . . Keep me in this union".

                                Comment

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