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Have you produced fruit worthy of eternal life?

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  • Originally posted by Angels_Sing View Post

    What fruit have you born that's "worthy" of eternal life?
    Have you not understood the Scripture?

    1 Corinthians 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
    3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
    4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

    Catholics don't boast of their works the way that Protestants boast of their faith.

    If you sinned gravely after you bore "worthy" fruit would you lose your chances at eternallife?
    If you repent, and return to God, He forgives.
    Pray!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by De Maria View Post

      Have you not understood the Scripture?

      1 Corinthians 4:2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.
      3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
      4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

      Catholics don't boast of their works the way that Protestants boast of their faith.



      If you repent, and return to God, He forgives.
      Nothing more boorish than someone with false sense of humility.

      BTW, you were boasting about Catholics not boasting.

      Back to my question that you skittered past still not been answered.


      What fruit have you done that's "worthy" of eternal life?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post

        Bad question. Fruit ''worthy' of eternal life? We don't do anything worthy of eternal life.
        We know, we're here to tell you faith without works is dead. Oh, but wait some one said that some 2,000 years ago and its even in the BOOK!


        JoeT

        Sigillum Militum Χρisti † / "Truth exists. The Incarnation happened."

        Totus Tuus, "Totally yours . . . Keep me in this union".

        Comment


        • Originally posted by De Maria View Post
          You do so everytime you claim that you are saved by your faith alone.
          I have to wonder if you just pretend not to understand, read my posts extremely sloppily, or simply do not understand. I do not claim that I am saved by my faith, alone or otherwise. My faith is not my savior. Christ is my Savior. What He has done for me I receive by faith (Rom. 3:25). There is no boasting in admitting that we can only cling to His cross for salvation.

          As I've explained to everyone else. That is the Baptismal formula. What St. Paul was saying is that we are saved by grace when we express our faith in Jesus Christ, WHEN WE ARE BAPTIZED.
          Ephesians 2 says nothing about baptism, but simply that God has saved us (perfect tense) by grace, through faith, and apart from works - and made us alive with Christ.

          Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
          Our sins were carried by Christ onto the cross and forgiven there.

          He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. (Col. 2:13-14)

          Baptism is a symbol of the reality which is Christ and Him crucified.

          1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
          Interestingly (and often ignored), that verse explicitly says that baptism does not remove the sin pollution of the flesh (our sinful nature). The underlying word ῥύπος is used in the sense of uncleanness caused by sin in the Septuagint (Isa. 4:4; Job 14:4). Baptism is the response of a conscience that has already been cleansed through faith in His Gospel.

          As I told someone else. We don't read or understand Scripture the same way as you.
          What is worse: you do not really care about how you read or understand Scripture, since you simply read whatever doctrines you believe in into the sacred texts.

          You claim to go by Scripture alone and you discard everything else. But in fact, you set Scripture aside and follow traditions of men.

          For instance, Scripture says:
          2 Thessalonians 2:15
          Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

          But you discard the Traditions.
          What "traditions"? You mean the man-made traditions of the Catholic "church"? Well, it is our duty to reject everything that opposes the Gospel of Christ.

          And it is only by the Traditions that you will understand the New Testament, because the New Testament was written from the Traditions of Jesus Christ.

          Scripture also says:
          Matthew 18:17
          And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

          But you deny the Church which Scripture also calls the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15) and lean upon your own understanding.
          I do not deny the church. I reject the untruthful, satanic teachings emanating from the counterfeit "church" that calls itself the Catholic church. I also do not lean upon my own understanding. Christ told the Jews that the Scriptures testify about Him. Wherever and whenever I find Him in the Scriptures I also know that He has guided me to the truth, because He is the Truth (John 14:6).

          No. That verse means exactly what it says. It is repeated often in Scripture.

          1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

          Hebrews 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
          It is widely recognized by scholars that the expression "with fear and trembling" was used as a stock phrase (or idiom if you like) by Paul. 2 Cor. 7:15, where exactly the same phrase is used, can hardly be taken to mean that the Corinthians received Titus while being afraid of him. It simply meant an attitude of supreme reverence. Likewise, Paul came to the Corinthians "in weakness with great fear and trembling" (1 Cor. 2:3). Again, it is hardly the case that Paul was afraid of the Corinthians, but that the task which he was commissioned to carry out humbled him deeply. Also, the Bible clearly states that we do not live in fear, but in love. In fact, there is no fear in love (1 Joh. 4:18).

          Exactly! Thereby disproving both OSAS and justification by faith alone.
          Why would it disprove OSAS since we are not saved by faith, but by the blood of Christ? And why would it disprove justification by faith alone since justification is not at all addressed in that chapter?

          I don't know what you mean, but Scripture says:
          I mean exactly what I write. We do not please God by our faith. Our faith is the precondition for pleasing Him by doing what He has called us to do. Hebrews 11 is brimful of examples of how people of faith acted on their faith. And our faith is His gift - are you saying that God is pleased by His own gift?

          Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
          A verse that was never penned down by the inspired Evangelist.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Calsgal View Post

            Some of the earlier translations did not saved we are saved by faith in Christ.. but rather we are saved by the faith OF Christ but somehow with more English translations it has been lost...

            Gal 2:16 "16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith OF Jesus Christ, even we have believed IN Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith OF Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
            You may still find such renditions, for instance in the NET Bible which translates διὰ πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ (Gal. 2:16) as "by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ" instead of "by faith in Jesus Christ". Both translations are possible, and the expression found in the NET Bible would of course emphasize the work of Christ even more. It has, though, been pointed out that when Paul is using the verb πιστεύω ("believe") rather than the noun πίστις ("faith"), it is our faith in Christ (rather than His faithfulness) that is clearly being referenced.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by JoeT View Post

              We know, we're here to tell you faith without works is dead. Oh, but wait some one said that some 2,000 years ago and its even in the BOOK!


              JoeT
              There you go, misinterpreting James again. I know you can read, so why you and others continually misrepresent our position is beyond me. No one has said works in the believers life are not fruitful. They just aren't necessary for salvation. But you knew that before you typed your post.
              Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Johan View Post

                I have to wonder if you just pretend not to understand, read my posts extremely sloppily, or simply do not understand.
                So you reject the doctrine of salvation by faith alone?

                I do not claim that I am saved by my faith, alone or otherwise. My faith is not my savior. Christ is my Savior.
                Then, you're coming closer to the Catholic Teaching.


                What He has done for me I receive by faith (Rom. 3:25).
                Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

                That's a declaration of faith in the Holy Eucharist, which is the New Covenant:

                Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

                There is no boasting in admitting that we can only cling to His cross for salvation.
                But that's a Catholic boast. Since when did Protestants take up their cross to follow Christ?

                Matthew 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

                Ephesians 2 says nothing about baptism,
                It does. But you don't recognize it because you've rejected the Sacred Traditions of Jesus Christ. It is in Baptism that we are saved by the grace which is poured into our hearts after we declare our faith in Jesus Christ.

                Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

                but simply that God has saved us (perfect tense) by grace, through faith, and apart from works - and made us alive with Christ.
                That's what happens at Baptism.

                Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

                Our sins were carried by Christ onto the cross and forgiven there.

                He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. (Col. 2:13-14)
                If you continue living according to the Spirit. Not if you don't.

                Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

                Baptism is a symbol of the reality which is Christ and Him crucified.
                It is a symbol which brings into effect, that which it symbolizes:

                1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

                Interestingly (and often ignored), that verse explicitly says that baptism does not remove the sin pollution of the flesh (our sinful nature)
                .

                On the contrary, what it says is that the washing of the flesh is not important. But the washing of the soul which produces a good conscience towards God.

                The underlying word ῥύπος is used in the sense of uncleanness caused by sin in the Septuagint (Isa. 4:4; Job 14:4). Baptism is the response of a conscience that has already been cleansed through faith in His Gospel.
                Again, you rely upon extra-biblical sources which contradict the Teaching of the Institution which Jesus Christ put on this earth to Teach all that He commanded. The Church of Jesus Christ says that Baptism washes away your sins. Just as does Scripture. But go ahead and rely upon the traditions of men.

                Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


                What is worse: you do not really care about how you read or understand Scripture, since you simply read whatever doctrines you believe in into the sacred texts.
                Because I know how Scripture came about. The New Testament was not written in a vacuum. It was written based upon the Teachings of Jesus Christ which are still passed down by the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church has taught us the Spirit of the Letter of the Scriptures. Because Jesus Christ Teaches through His Church.

                What "traditions"? You mean the man-made traditions of the Catholic "church"? Well, it is our duty to reject everything that opposes the Gospel of Christ.
                All the traditions you hold which contradict the Catholic Church, also contradict the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


                I do not deny the church. I reject the untruthful, satanic teachings emanating from the counterfeit "church" that calls itself the Catholic church. I also do not lean upon my own understanding. Christ told the Jews that the Scriptures testify about Him. Wherever and whenever I find Him in the Scriptures I also know that He has guided me to the truth, because He is the Truth (John 14:6).
                Jesus doesn't contradict Himself. Jesus is the Truth. Yet your Sola Scriptura adherents contradict yourself all over the place.

                It is widely recognized by scholars that the expression "with fear and trembling" was used as a stock phrase (or idiom if you like) by Paul. 2 Cor. 7:15, where exactly the same phrase is used, can hardly be taken to mean that the Corinthians received Titus while being afraid of him. It simply meant an attitude of supreme reverence. Likewise, Paul came to the Corinthians "in weakness with great fear and trembling" (1 Cor. 2:3). Again, it is hardly the case that Paul was afraid of the Corinthians, but that the task which he was commissioned to carry out humbled him deeply. Also, the Bible clearly states that we do not live in fear, but in love. In fact, there is no fear in love (1 Joh. 4:18).
                We don't follow so-called "scholars". We follow Jesus Christ through His Church.


                Why would it disprove OSAS since we are not saved by faith,
                Thanks for the admission.

                but by the blood of Christ?
                We get the Blood of Christ in the Eucharist, which you reject.

                And why would it disprove justification by faith alone since justification is not at all addressed in that chapter?
                It doesn't matter if that chapter does or not, since you just disavowed it, above.


                I mean exactly what I write. We do not please God by our faith. Our faith is the precondition for pleasing Him by doing what He has called us to do. Hebrews 11 is brimful of examples of how people of faith acted on their faith.
                Our faith is the precondition for pleasing Him by doing what He has called us to do.

                Thank you! That is the Catholic Doctrine that all the other Protestants reject.

                And our faith is His gift - are you saying that God is pleased by His own gift?
                Lol! That is Catholic Teaching. Have you not heard?

                III. MERIT

                You are glorified in the assembly of your Holy Ones, for in crowning their merits you are crowning your own gifts.59
                2006 The term "merit" refers in general to the recompense owed by a community or a society for the action of one of its members, experienced either as beneficial or harmful, deserving reward or punishment. Merit is relative to the virtue of justice, in conformity with the principle of equality which governs it.


                A verse that was never penned down by the inspired Evangelist.
                Says you, because you consider yourself superior to the Word of God. Let me ask you, who gave you authority to reject some Scriptures? How many more do you reject? Do you join some of the others here in rejecting the writings of St. Paul?

                Pray!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Theophilos View Post

                  How do we abide in Christ? That question is answered in earlier in the Gospel of John (using the same Greek verb):

                  Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. John 6:56
                  My Church does that in Communion. What is your point?

                  You claim that your Eucharist is itself a sacrifice which is never taught by the apostles. Our Communion is a remembrance

                  of Christ's One Time Sacrifice as taught by Jesus.

                  JohnR

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by highrigger View Post

                    My Church does that in communion. What is your point?

                    JohnR
                    Well then, you've accepted the Catholic Doctrine. Thanks for contributing!

                    Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. John 6:56
                    Pray!

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Johan View Post

                      You may still find such renditions, for instance in the NET Bible which translates διὰ πίστεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ (Gal. 2:16) as "by the faithfulness of Jesus Christ" instead of "by faith in Jesus Christ". Both translations are possible, and the expression found in the NET Bible would of course emphasize the work of Christ even more. It has, though, been pointed out that when Paul is using the verb πιστεύω ("believe") rather than the noun πίστις ("faith"), it is our faith in Christ (rather than His faithfulness) that is clearly being referenced.
                      It means the same. We are not saved by works of the Law but rather by Faith in Christ.

                      Jesus said He came to save and NOT to judge. We are all sinners in need of forgiveness.

                      JohnR

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by De Maria View Post

                        Well then, you've accepted the Catholic Doctrine. Thanks for contributing!

                        Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. John 6:56
                        As we go up to take the elements of Communion we are each told "This is my body" and "This is my blood"

                        Even your own CCC does not teach this as literal or physical.
                        The body of Christ in Communion is His Resurrected Body.


                        I agree with your Pope on this.

                        One thing at any rate may be fairly clear; both John (6:63) and Paul
                        (1 Cor 15:50) state with all possible emphasis that the "resurrection
                        of the flesh", the "resurrection of the body", is not a "resurrection
                        of physical bodies." Thus from the point of view of modern thought
                        the Pauline sketch is far less naive than later theological
                        erudition with its subtle ways of construing how there can be
                        eternal physical bodies.
                        To recapitulate, Paul teaches, not the resurrection of physical bodies, but
                        the resurrection of persons, and this not in the return of the
                        "fleshly body", that is, the biological structure, an idea he
                        expressly describes as impossible "the perishable cannot become
                        imperishable"), but in the different form of the life of the
                        resurrection, as shown in the risen Lord.}
                        Introduction to Christianity
                        Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
                        p 356-358 c. The question of the resurrected body

                        I think you do not even understand your Catholic Doctrines as it relates to the Eucharist.

                        JohnR

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by highrigger View Post
                          I think you do not even understand your Catholic Doctrines as it relates to the Eucharist.

                          JohnR
                          The important thing here, is that you accept the Catholic Teaching. You keep saying:

                          I agree with your Pope on this.
                          Pray!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Kat4life View Post

                            Doubt leaves room for the possibility he was. Do you understand that?
                            Do you know what a "colloquialism" is?

                            Originally posted by Kat4life
                            So if he was saved, was he always saved, even while you believe he was being an unrepentant idolator?
                            Sadly, I doubt he was ever saved, and he most certainly was unrepentant in his total devotion to Mary alone which confirms my doubt.

                            If he had meant to cast you away he would have done so long ago. If he wanted reasons for rejecting you he had reasons from all eternity, for he knew what you would be. No sin in you has been a surprise to him. C.H. Spurgeon

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Howie View Post
                              Quibble much?

                              It's very clear that Catholics believe being disobedient to the commands of the Lord result in the forfeiture of salvation.
                              At least try to be consistent in your beliefs, Kat4life.
                              Well, let's start by being precise. If you want to characterize Catholic belief, let's make sure you characterize it correctly. Here's what I would add to your description of our belief in order to make it more correct.

                              It's very clear that Catholics believe being disobedient to the commands of the Lord result in the forfeiture of salvation, if they do not repent and ask His forgiveness and amend their lives.

                              Ok, now, you seem to be saying that Jesus Christ commanded us not to hold His mother in high esteem. You call it "idolizing her". Whereas, we simply call it, "loving her". So, where do you want to start to prove that Jesus did not want us to love His mother?

                              Pray!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                                ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! I HAVE NEVER produced ANY FRUIT worthy of eternal life. I NEVER WILL, and no Other Human, including yourself, ever will either - with one exception - JESUS!!!!!

                                Fortunately it's NOT about us "Being Worthy", but about JESUS being worthy, and being our perfect SIN OFFERING (Isa 53) that cleanses us from ALL SIN by FAITH in HIS BLOOD shed on the Cross for you and me.

                                IF ANY PART OF YOUR SALVATION is based on YOUR WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, you have a MAJOR problem.
                                The most interesting Carabbio in the world, If I gift you a bike doesn't mean you are going to ride it and if you do ride it popping wheelies and all doesn't negate the bike was a merit all mine.


                                "ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! I HAVE NEVER produced ANY FRUIT worthy of eternal life. I NEVER WILL, "

                                What your saying is God is too dumb to teach you to do anything right. That your evil ignorance is a greater obstacle than God. That he cannot heal you.


                                If you had faith in God, you'd actually have faith in God. But all you do is count on him to fail and give cold shoulders. That is not faith at all.

                                Comment

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