Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

Where are the witnesses to Mary's assumption into heaven and her exalted status?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Originally posted by illini1959 View Post

    I know what scripture says about her. The only thing you got 100% right was the part about being visited by Gabriel.

    As has been explained innumerable times, those verses in Revelation are not about Mary.

    Mary didn't 'intercede'. She just told someone to do what Jesus said. Not the huge deal the rcc makes of it.

    She did stay at the foot of the Cross but Jesus gave her to John to care for her. As I just said on another thread, this was His duty as the eldest son in a Hebrew home. His brothers weren't believers at the time, so He put her under the care of John.

    Not 'mankind'.

    "Then He said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother!” From that hour the disciple took her into his own household.' John 19:27 <---- show me how this means 'mankind'

    Nowhere does this even imply she's mankinds' mother. Purely eisegesis on the part of the rcc.

    If you check what your ecf's say against scripture, where do they stand? NONE of this is recorded, verified, hinted at in scripture - where it would all be if any of this was true.

    Do you ever test these things?

    No. Catholics never test anything.
    are you absolutely sure that Catholics never test anything? have you read church councils, synods, etc...?

    A good example is the council of ephesus which declared Mary to be the mother of god. Can you give me how your church/organization deliberates or maybe these are all your private fallible interpretations?

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by mica View Post
      and once again, what you believe and call truth is not from God, but from men of this world.

      And what is your authority for such a statement?

      But you believe in the 27 books of the nt the Catholic Church determined, correct?

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

        are you absolutely sure that Catholics never test anything? have you read church councils, synods, etc...?

        A good example is the council of ephesus which declared Mary to be the mother of god. Can you give me how your church/organization deliberates or maybe these are all your private fallible interpretations?
        Councils override apostolic authority,
        for there is no apostolic witness that Mary is the mother of God.


        that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
        (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1).


        .


        The apostolic word of God by the Twelve is the highest written authority, for it binds and loosens (Mat 16-19).
        Then the foundational prophets - NO OTHER WORKS QUALIFY

        Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post
          You people always forget that Rev 12 says 'sign' of a woman, not simply woman. Changes the context a tad. But you know this since its been presented here now regularly for over 10 years. Youre grasping at something that has been debunked for over a decade, here anyway.

          Ive read similar fairy tales.
          Does the Bible say Mary was not assumed into heaven? If no, then why can't Catholics believe she was?

          Absolute horse hockey. Ecf's used the term apocrypha all the time. I know you've seen this but here it is again;
          Jerome did live before the 16th century didn't he? Did you think this would even pass the smell test?
          Have you tried to look for the etymological meaning of the word? Like some ecfs, as Jerome did, they lost sight of this and have labeled those books outside of the canon as such. Protestants used the word to refer to the 7 books they contested. However, apocrypha refers to other books of patristic literature, although outside the Bible, should be considered independently.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

            Does the Bible say Mary was not assumed into heaven? If no, then why can't Catholics believe she was?
            Witnesses for Mary's assumption
            are required according to this scriptural principle:


            that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
            (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1).



            The apostolic word of God by the Twelve is the highest written authority, for it binds and loosens (Mat 16-19).
            Then the foundational prophets - NO OTHER WORKS QUALIFY

            Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

            Comment


            • #81
              Originally posted by mica View Post
              not in scripture. as we keep saying, catholics get their religious beliefs from men. catholics even tell us that - in their posts, just like you did.[/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]


              that isn't Mary.

              try reading scripture - that's God's word for us. The RCC words are not.

              Correct.

              It is not how the ecfs understanding of god's written word but your!!!

              what made you think you know better than these early Christians?

              Comment


              • #82
                Witnesses for Mary's assumption
                are required according to this scriptural principle:


                that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
                (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1).


                Originally posted by ramcam2;n58***22

                It is not how the ecfs understanding of god's written word but your!!!

                what made you think you know better than these early Christians?
                I don't care for the opinions of the ECFs.

                Supply those witnesses.
                The apostolic word of God by the Twelve is the highest written authority, for it binds and loosens (Mat 16-19).
                Then the foundational prophets - NO OTHER WORKS QUALIFY

                Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

                Comment


                • #83

                  Originally posted by Conqueror View Post

                  Witnesses for Mary's assumption
                  are required according to this scriptural principle:


                  that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
                  (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1).



                  Originally posted by Conqueror View Post

                  Councils override apostolic authority,
                  for there is no apostolic witness that Mary is the mother of God.


                  that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
                  (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1).
                  The apostle john saw her as the queen of the heavenly kingdom.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Originally posted by Conqueror View Post

                    Councils override apostolic authority,
                    for there is no apostolic witness that Mary is the mother of God.


                    that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
                    (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1).
                    Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

                    The apostle john saw her as the queen of the heavenly kingdom.
                    If that were true and no RC interpretation,
                    then where is the OT prophecy for Mary's elevation to queen?


                    that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
                    (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1).



                    The apostolic word of God by the Twelve is the highest written authority, for it binds and loosens (Mat 16-19).
                    Then the foundational prophets - NO OTHER WORKS QUALIFY

                    Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by Conqueror View Post



                      If that were true and no RC interpretation,
                      then where is the OT prophecy for Mary's elevation to queen?


                      that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
                      (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1).
                      Are you saying Jesus is not god and is not the king of the heavenly kingdom?

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Conqueror View Post


                        If that were true and no RC interpretation,
                        then where is the OT prophecy for Mary's elevation to queen?


                        that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
                        (Mt 18:16, Deut. 17:6; 19:15; John 8:17; 2 Cor. 13:1).

                        Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

                        Are you saying Jesus is not god and is not the king of the heavenly kingdom?
                        I am saying;
                        Produce the required two or three witnesses.


                        .
                        The apostolic word of God by the Twelve is the highest written authority, for it binds and loosens (Mat 16-19).
                        Then the foundational prophets - NO OTHER WORKS QUALIFY

                        Get rid of the dross in the Roman Canon - Raise My Word to the HIGHEST place

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by ramcam2;n58***13

                          Does the Bible say Mary was not assumed into heaven? If no, then why can't Catholics believe she was?
                          Catholic hermenutics at its best! "The bible doesn't say...." Then i guess mary rode a pink unicorn to Jerusalem to pick up groceries right? Nowhere does the bible say she didn't. The bible clearly lists others taken by God...Enoch, Elijah. No mary. If she were taken, we would know.

                          Have you tried to look for the etymological meaning of the word? Like some ecfs, as Jerome did, they lost sight of this and have labeled those books outside of the canon as such. Protestants used the word to refer to the 7 books they contested. However, apocrypha refers to other books of patristic literature, although outside the Bible, should be considered independently.
                          Youre moving the goalposts, which is typical. You said this;
                          the word apocrypha is from the greek apokryphos and it means hidden. with some of the early Christians, the word has a connotation of being uncanonical. the protestants applied the word apocrypha to the 7 books the catholics called as deuterocanonicals. both of these terms, to mean the 7 books disputed by protestants, were not used before the 16th century.
                          The WORD was not used prior to the 16th century. Hogwash, of course it was. Now youre backpedaling as fast as you can. And apocryphal books were not limited to just the 7 uninspired books you people hold to, but many more. Not just the seven. And you got one thing right. Jerome considered them outside the canon. Thanks for that admission. And we didn't contest them, they were never considered inspired. Your church wrongly elevated them to inspired status at trent. The error falls squarely on the pompous prelates at trent that didn't know a thing about what they were voting for.
                          Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

                            are you absolutely sure that Catholics never test anything? have you read church councils, synods, etc...?

                            A good example is the council of ephesus which declared Mary to be the mother of god. Can you give me how your church/organization deliberates or maybe these are all your private fallible interpretations?
                            The bible never refers to mary as mother of god. So ya, if those at the counsel had His word as their standard, such a thing would never have been declared. Then your church makes a dogma out of it. It'd be laughable if it were not so blasphemous.
                            Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

                              are you absolutely sure that Catholics never test anything? have you read church councils, synods, etc...?

                              A good example is the council of ephesus which declared Mary to be the mother of god. Can you give me how your church/organization deliberates or maybe these are all your private fallible interpretations?
                              Yes.

                              But if I doubted it, your second question confirmed it for me.

                              While you guys are testing false doctrine against church councils, synods, etc., we're testing it against scripture.

                              Guess what's not in scripture? That's right.

                              Mary/mother of God

                              So - the council of ephesus says she is.

                              Scripture never calls her mother of God. (Yes, Jesus is God but we all know that's not what catholics mean when you say this. Otherwise, why not just call her what she is, the mother of Jesus.)

                              Which one should we go with...............................?

                              How does my church deliberate this? We read the bible.

                              Again - your council of ephesus says one thing - scripture doesn't support it. That's how we 'interpret'.

                              It's not hard.

                              2 Corinthians 5:7 ~ for we walk by faith, not by sight

                              Romans 10:9 ~ that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

                                Does the Bible say Mary was not assumed into heaven? If no, then why can't Catholics believe she was?
                                I'm sorry, what? Really?

                                And catholics say we make stuff up. smh.
                                2 Corinthians 5:7 ~ for we walk by faith, not by sight

                                Romans 10:9 ~ that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X