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Works before salvation?

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  • Works before salvation?

    Originally posted by De Maria View Post

    You have to do works of righteousness before God will save you by His mercy.

    Catholics, is this a Catholic teaching? Works must precede salvation?

    If so, please tell us how the unsaved, the faithless, can do works of righteousness.....
    ~~~My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My Father's hand~~~

  • #2
    Luke 10

    25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”


    Perfect Complete answer of Jesus Christ. Only unbelievers 2nd guess and question it.

    The Cherry on top is his example of someone doing this is NOT EVEN CHRISTIAN OR JEWISH!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by utilyan View Post
      Luke 10
      25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”


      Perfect Complete answer of Jesus Christ. Only unbelievers 2nd guess and question it.

      The Cherry on top is his example of someone doing this is NOT EVEN CHRISTIAN OR JEWISH!
      That isn't something that catholics do. they're too in love with the RCC, its fabrications, rituals, pomp and circumstance, their popes, bishops, ecfs and Mary. Those are what catholics are bound to. Christ is always trailing behind all of the catholic idols.

      in what time span did He say these words? and who was He speaking to?

      "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

      The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by mica View Post
        That isn't something that catholics do. they're too in love with the RCC, its fabrications, rituals, pomp and circumstance, their popes, bishops, ecfs and Mary. Those are what catholics are bound to. Christ is always trailing behind all of the catholic idols.

        in what time span did He say these words? and who was He speaking to?
        Timeless. To everyone.


        Amen to Jesus Christ this is the word of the Lord. I believe what Jesus Christ teaches. It is right yesterday, right today and right tomorrow.



        Deuteronomy 30

        11“For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12“It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 13“Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 14“But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by utilyan View Post
          Luke 10

          25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”


          Perfect Complete answer of Jesus Christ. Only unbelievers 2nd guess and question it.

          The Cherry on top is his example of someone doing this is NOT EVEN CHRISTIAN OR JEWISH!
          The unsaved cannot do either. That you don’t understand this isn’t surprising.....
          ~~~My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My Father's hand~~~

          Comment


          • #6

            Originally posted by mica View Post
            That isn't something that catholics do. they're too in love with the RCC, its fabrications, rituals, pomp and circumstance, their popes, bishops, ecfs and Mary. Those are what catholics are bound to. Christ is always trailing behind all of the catholic idols.

            in what time span did He say these words? and who was He speaking to?
            Originally posted by utilyan View Post
            Timeless. To everyone.


            Amen to Jesus Christ this is the word of the Lord. I believe what Jesus Christ teaches. It is right yesterday, right today and right tomorrow.

            Deuteronomy 30

            11“For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12“It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 13“Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 14“But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.
            from your reply it doesn't seem like you even understand the question... catholics pay no attention to the time lines.

            so you don't know the answer to this question either...

            "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

            The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by utilyan View Post
              Luke 10

              25And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26And He said to him, “What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?” 27And he answered, “YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.” 28And He said to him, “You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE.”


              Perfect Complete answer of Jesus Christ. Only unbelievers 2nd guess and question it.

              The Cherry on top is his example of someone doing this is NOT EVEN CHRISTIAN OR JEWISH!
              And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do (singular action) to inherit eternal life?

              do ~ 4160-
              ποιέω - poieō - Tense: Aorist Voice: Active Mood: Participle

              And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do (ongoing action), and thou shalt live.

              do ~ 4160-
              ποιέω - poieō - Tense: Present Voice: Active Mood: Imperative

              The lawyer
              tempted him (Try, prove, tempt, put to the test. Sinners are said to tempt God) by carefully crafting an insincere question in an attempt to ensnare Him, i.e., ~ what ONE thing (aorist tense - singular action) must I do to inherit eternal life?

              The Lord Jesus responded using the present tense for
              do, denoting ongoing action, i.e., keep on doing this in perpetuity.

              On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
              (Mt 22:40)

              In other words, keep the Law perfectly and you may obtain eternal life.

              For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (James 2:10)

              No man has ever kept the Law perfectly.

              Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (Gal 3:24)
              Let thy mercies come also unto me, O LORD, even thy salvation, according to thy word. So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word. (Ps. 119:41-42)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by 4Him View Post

                The unsaved cannot do either. That you don’t understand this isn’t surprising.....
                His question was what must he do to BE SAVED. Not what do saved people do. You want the cart before the horse. He could have said you can't do anything, you can't be saved unless you are saved.

                That is not what Jesus says at all.


                The wall you guys are banging against is can he do it continuously.

                Lets challenge another wall could a reprobate ever do this one righteous command of God that is pleasing to GOD even once? I believe you would say no he cannot.

                Thankfully the story gets better.


                Luke 10

                29But wishing to justify himself, he said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
                30Jesus replied and said, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, and they stripped him and beat him, and went away leaving him half dead. 31“And by chance a priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.32“Likewise a Levite also, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33“But a Samaritan, who was on a journey, came upon him; and when he saw him, he felt compassion, 34and came to him and bandaged up his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them; and he put him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35“On the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper and said, ‘Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I return I will repay you.’ 36“Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the robbers’ hands?37And he said, “The one who showed mercy toward him.” Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do the same.”

                Does it say a sinless born again man who continuously did right save the man who fell among robbers? No. Its a Samaritan. We are seeing a one time act.

                And Jesus gives this as the EXAMPLE to follow, the elaborated example of Loving GOD and NEIGHBOR. Jesus say GO AND DO THE SAME.

                If Jesus asked a Calvinist which of these three do you think is the neighbor? We would get answers from It would even be the ELECT fellah who passed him up to Who knows who is elect?

                You could not answer Jesus CORRECTLY as the lawyer does. You would never qualify the Samaritan.

                Even today if you see a GOOD act from a non-christian You couldn't say he qualifies as loving neighbor, you'd say its a fluke some selfish motive behind it all not truly Good or in the name of God.

                The whole thing is about what must I do to be saved.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by utilyan View Post

                  His question was what must he do to BE SAVED. Not what do saved people do. You want the cart before the horse. He could have said you can't do anything, you can't be saved unless you are saved.

                  That is not what Jesus says at all.


                  The wall you guys are banging against is can he do it continuously.

                  Lets challenge another wall could a reprobate ever do this one righteous command of God that is pleasing to GOD even once? I believe you would say no he cannot.

                  Thankfully the story gets better.


                  Luke 10

                  29But wishing to justify himself, he said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
                  30Jesus replied and said, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, and they stripped him and beat him, and went away leaving him half dead. 31“And by chance a priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.32“Likewise a Levite also, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33“But a Samaritan, who was on a journey, came upon him; and when he saw him, he felt compassion, 34and came to him and bandaged up his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them; and he put him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35“On the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper and said, ‘Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I return I will repay you.’ 36“Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the robbers’ hands?37And he said, “The one who showed mercy toward him.” Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do the same.”

                  Does it say a sinless born again man who continuously did right save the man who fell among robbers? No. Its a Samaritan. We are seeing a one time act.

                  And Jesus gives this as the EXAMPLE to follow, the elaborated example of Loving GOD and NEIGHBOR. Jesus say GO AND DO THE SAME.

                  If Jesus asked a Calvinist which of these three do you think is the neighbor? We would get answers from It would even be the ELECT fellah who passed him up to Who knows who is elect?

                  You could not answer Jesus CORRECTLY as the lawyer does. You would never qualify the Samaritan.

                  Even today if you see a GOOD act from a non-christian You couldn't say he qualifies as loving neighbor, you'd say its a fluke some selfish motive behind it all not truly Good or in the name of God.

                  The whole thing is about what must I do to be saved.
                  that's what catholics need to do... whatever it that the RCC tells them to do.

                  "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                  The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mica View Post
                    that's what catholics need to do... whatever it that the RCC tells them to do.
                    WE believe Jesus Christ. His words are true.

                    I love Jesus Christ.

                    John 14

                    8Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. 11“Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. 12“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father. 13“Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14“If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

                    15“If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.


                    Jesus Christ said : “Go and do the same.”

                    He didn't say “Go and do what mica says"

                    IF you want to say Jesus is wrong, lets hear it.

                    As for me, I will do what Jesus says.



                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 4Him View Post


                      Catholics, is this a Catholic teaching? Works must precede salvation?

                      If so, please tell us how the unsaved, the faithless, can do works of righteousness.....
                      "You have to do works of righteousness before God will save you by His mercy."

                      directly contradicts
                      Titus 3:5he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
                      One of the ekklēsia

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by tester View Post
                        "You have to do works of righteousness before God will save you by His mercy."

                        directly contradicts
                        Titus 3:5he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
                        That tells you his motive. His means is Jesus Christ and Jesus teaches to LOVE GOD and LOVE NEIGHBOR.

                        I would never agree that God's motive for saving anyone is their works. WHY he saves us and HOW is two different things.

                        WHY is his MERCY. HOW is Jesus Christ. I quote the words of our GOD and SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST. He says quite clearly DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE, GO AND DO THE SAME.


                        If you guys think Jesus is WRONG , SAY IT THEN. I actually believe Jesus Christ. He is absolutely right. His teaching me is saving me.

                        I didn't make up Love God and Love Neighbor how do you ever figure to credit me with that? You got a problem with how Jesus saves. I can say AMEN to his words.

                        When anyone asks me how to be saved, I can quote Jesus' PERFECT teaching, LOVE GOD and LOVE NEIGHBOR.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by utilyan View Post

                          When anyone asks me how to be saved, I can quote Jesus' PERFECT teaching, LOVE GOD and LOVE NEIGHBOR.
                          "LOVE GOD and LOVE NEIGHBOR"
                          are WORKS OF THE LAW

                          "For we maintain that a person is justified (declared righteous by God) by faith APART from the works of the law."
                          One of the ekklēsia

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tester View Post

                            "LOVE GOD and LOVE NEIGHBOR"
                            are WORKS OF THE LAW

                            "For we maintain that a person is justified (declared righteous by God) by faith APART from the works of the law."

                            1 Peter 2

                            21For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps,


                            Jesus Christ is our perfect example to follow. I didn't see him sit around and twiddle his thumbs thank you very much. I will follow the LORD.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by utilyan View Post


                              1 Peter 2

                              21For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps,


                              Jesus Christ is our perfect example to follow. I didn't see him sit around and twiddle his thumbs thank you very much. I will follow the LORD.
                              you said :
                              "When anyone asks me how to be saved, I can quote Jesus' PERFECT teaching, LOVE GOD and LOVE NEIGHBOR."

                              Scripture says
                              "For we maintain that a person is justified (declared righteous by God) by faith APART from the works of the law."

                              LOVE GOD and LOVE NEIGHBOR. are works of the law
                              please reconcile your apparent contradiction
                              Last edited by tester; 05-30-19, 09:32 AM.
                              One of the ekklēsia

                              Comment

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