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Bergoglio: "Church must learn to abandon traditions"

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  • Bergoglio: "Church must learn to abandon traditions"

    It is a mistake for the Church to try to hold onto old traditions or have clear answers for everything.Pope Francis said Thursday.

    Jesus intentionally omitted telling his disciples many things so that the Church would learn to renounce the desire for clarity and order, the pope told participants in the 21st general assembly of Caritas Internationalis, the Church’s global charitable outreach.

    When pagans first embraced the Christian faith, the question arose as to if they would have to abide by all the precepts of the Jewish law, something Jesus never spoke of, the pope noted.y not always giving “clear rules” that would quickly resolve issues, Jesus was protecting the Church from the temptation of "efficientism," Francis said, which is the desire for the Church to have everything under control, avoiding surprises, with its agenda always in order.

    This is not the way the Lord acts, he continued. He does not send answers from heaven. "He sends the Holy Spirit."

    "Jesus does not want the church to be a perfect model, satisfied with its own organization and able to defend its good name," he said. "Jesus did not live like this, but on a journey, without fearing the upheavals of life.

    Living like Jesus demands the “courage of renunciation,” the pontiff said, a willingness to abandon traditions that are dear to us.

    Changing and adapting is not about imposing something new, he said, “but leaving aside something old."

    "Those early Christians had to learn to leave behind "important religious traditions and precepts, dear to the chosen people,” he said, by which their very "religious identity" was at stake.

    In the end, they did not need a bunch of doctrines and traditions. but the simple announcement that “God is love,” Francis said, and in the face of this great truth, “even convictions and human traditions can and must be abandoned, since they are more of an obstacle than a help."

    “God often purifies, simplifies, and makes us grow by taking away, not by adding, as we might do," he said.

    “True faith cleanses from attachments,” he said. “As a church, we are not called to corporate compromises, but to evangelical enterprise.”

    Critics of the pope have often complained that he intentionally sows “ambiguity,” and the pontiff’s words Thursday would seem to suggest that he owns this criticism as a badge of honor because he sees a desire for doctrinal clarity as anti-evangelical.

    https://www.breitbart.com/faith/2019...d-traditions/#

    This arch-heretic so obviously hates the Catholic Church, that one has to be willfully blind not to see it. This evil man renounces doctrines, hierarchy, and order. He denies that the Catholic Church has the truth, answers, or clarity. He obviously denies the indefectibility and infallibility of the Church. He is not merely a heretic, but an apostate.
    "The Holy Roman Church condemns, rejects, anathematizes and declares to be outside the Body of Christ, which is the Church, whoever holds opposing or contrary views.” Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence

  • #2
    YOU cannot call the current Pope a heretic being one yourself.
    "Qostiid sahlo aak. Just because you can do a thing, does not always mean you should." Paarthurnax

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mysterium Fidei View Post
      It is a mistake for the Church to try to hold onto old traditions or have clear answers for everything.Pope Francis said Thursday.

      Jesus intentionally omitted telling his disciples many things so that the Church would learn to renounce the desire for clarity and order, the pope told participants in the 21st general assembly of Caritas Internationalis, the Church’s global charitable outreach.

      When pagans first embraced the Christian faith, the question arose as to if they would have to abide by all the precepts of the Jewish law, something Jesus never spoke of, the pope noted.y not always giving “clear rules” that would quickly resolve issues, Jesus was protecting the Church from the temptation of "efficientism," Francis said, which is the desire for the Church to have everything under control, avoiding surprises, with its agenda always in order.

      This is not the way the Lord acts, he continued. He does not send answers from heaven. "He sends the Holy Spirit."

      "Jesus does not want the church to be a perfect model, satisfied with its own organization and able to defend its good name," he said. "Jesus did not live like this, but on a journey, without fearing the upheavals of life.

      Living like Jesus demands the “courage of renunciation,” the pontiff said, a willingness to abandon traditions that are dear to us.

      Changing and adapting is not about imposing something new, he said, “but leaving aside something old."

      "Those early Christians had to learn to leave behind "important religious traditions and precepts, dear to the chosen people,” he said, by which their very "religious identity" was at stake.

      In the end, they did not need a bunch of doctrines and traditions. but the simple announcement that “God is love,” Francis said, and in the face of this great truth, “even convictions and human traditions can and must be abandoned, since they are more of an obstacle than a help."

      “God often purifies, simplifies, and makes us grow by taking away, not by adding, as we might do," he said.

      “True faith cleanses from attachments,” he said. “As a church, we are not called to corporate compromises, but to evangelical enterprise.”

      Critics of the pope have often complained that he intentionally sows “ambiguity,” and the pontiff’s words Thursday would seem to suggest that he owns this criticism as a badge of honor because he sees a desire for doctrinal clarity as anti-evangelical.

      https://www.breitbart.com/faith/2019...d-traditions/#

      This arch-heretic so obviously hates the Catholic Church, that one has to be willfully blind not to see it. This evil man renounces doctrines, hierarchy, and order. He denies that the Catholic Church has the truth, answers, or clarity. He obviously denies the indefectibility and infallibility of the Church. He is not merely a heretic, but an apostate.
      He is not even a Christian. I wonder what he thinks about 'lying' since he does it so much.

      It is fundamentally necessary and healthy for Christians to acknowledge that God foreknows nothing uncertainly, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His own immutable, eternal and infallible will. This bombshell knocks "free-will" flat…

      Martin Luther The Bondage of the Will

      Comment


      • #4
        Interesting that NO Catholics have nothing to say about this. Either they are embarrassed or silently agree with their beloved pope.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Angels_Sing View Post
          Interesting that NO Catholics have nothing to say about this. Either they are embarrassed or silently agree with their beloved pope.
          Hi Angels,

          I read the homily and I did not see anything I would object to.

          Let us pray for one another and love one another.
          -Ray-

          The Good News is that Jesus Christ died and rose for our sins so that we might be saved.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by relling View Post

            Hi Angels,

            I read the homily and I did not see anything I would object to.

            Let us pray for one another and love one another.
            What did you take away from his homily?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Mysterium Fidei View Post
              It is a mistake for the Church to try to hold onto old traditions or have clear answers for everything.Pope Francis said Thursday.

              Jesus intentionally omitted telling his disciples many things so that the Church would learn to renounce the desire for clarity and order, the pope told participants in the 21st general assembly of Caritas Internationalis, the Church’s global charitable outreach.

              When pagans first embraced the Christian faith, the question arose as to if they would have to abide by all the precepts of the Jewish law, something Jesus never spoke of, the pope noted.y not always giving “clear rules” that would quickly resolve issues, Jesus was protecting the Church from the temptation of "efficientism," Francis said, which is the desire for the Church to have everything under control, avoiding surprises, with its agenda always in order.

              This is not the way the Lord acts, he continued. He does not send answers from heaven. "He sends the Holy Spirit."

              "Jesus does not want the church to be a perfect model, satisfied with its own organization and able to defend its good name," he said. "Jesus did not live like this, but on a journey, without fearing the upheavals of life.

              Living like Jesus demands the “courage of renunciation,” the pontiff said, a willingness to abandon traditions that are dear to us.

              Changing and adapting is not about imposing something new, he said, “but leaving aside something old."

              "Those early Christians had to learn to leave behind "important religious traditions and precepts, dear to the chosen people,” he said, by which their very "religious identity" was at stake.

              In the end, they did not need a bunch of doctrines and traditions. but the simple announcement that “God is love,” Francis said, and in the face of this great truth, “even convictions and human traditions can and must be abandoned, since they are more of an obstacle than a help."

              “God often purifies, simplifies, and makes us grow by taking away, not by adding, as we might do," he said.

              “True faith cleanses from attachments,” he said. “As a church, we are not called to corporate compromises, but to evangelical enterprise.”

              Critics of the pope have often complained that he intentionally sows “ambiguity,” and the pontiff’s words Thursday would seem to suggest that he owns this criticism as a badge of honor because he sees a desire for doctrinal clarity as anti-evangelical.

              https://www.breitbart.com/faith/2019...d-traditions/#

              This arch-heretic so obviously hates the Catholic Church, that one has to be willfully blind not to see it. This evil man renounces doctrines, hierarchy, and order. He denies that the Catholic Church has the truth, answers, or clarity. He obviously denies the indefectibility and infallibility of the Church. He is not merely a heretic, but an apostate.
              I see the "REAL" catholics still haven't got their own pope and just whine about ours.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Angels_Sing View Post

                What did you take away from his homily?
                Hi Angels,

                My take in a nutshell:

                1st is some context.
                His audience for this homily was Caritas Internationalis whose mission is to help the poor.

                2nd.
                He used the first reading of the day, Acts 15:7-21, to show that the early Christians changed their beliefs about what was required to be Christians.

                3rd.
                He tells his listeners they need to be ready to change what they are doing if it will benefit those they are supposed to serve (in the case of Caritas Internationalis the poor.)

                4th.
                My personal take is that I need to look at new ideas and understandings in what I do in my life that affects other.

                Let us pray for one another and love one another.
                -Ray-

                The Good News is that Jesus Christ died and rose for our sins so that we might be saved.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Devil attacks.....Devil in the details.


                  In the end, they did not need a bunch of doctrines and traditions. but the simple announcement that “God is love,” Francis said, and in the face of this great truth, “even convictions and human traditions can and must be abandoned, since they are more of an obstacle than a help."


                  HUMAN TRADITIONS, the TRADITIONS OF MEN, must be abandoned.


                  What do you think is a better way to attack the Catholic Church?

                  should we print "Church must learn to abandon traditions"

                  or "Church must learn to abandon traditions of Men"


                  Misrepresentation? nooo..... Lies? noooooo.. Deception.....never....


                  But thank you guys you made it quite clear how much you support having TRADITIONS OF MEN.

                  Is that right? No that would be misrepresenting. I don't have to sink to such a low pathetic tactic.

                  You got the final word on what you say. That is called having honor.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Redmond View Post
                    YOU cannot call the current Pope a heretic being one yourself.
                    Why don't you reunite with Rome? What does the modernist Novus Ordo sect believe that you Old Catholics could possibly object to?

                    Bergoglio clearly denies the infallibility of the papacy and the indefectibility of the Church.

                    He renounces the Church's doctrines and traditions.

                    He allows divorced and remarried to receive the sacraments,.

                    He is a pedophile protector and everyone he promotes is a sodomite or sodomite friendly.

                    If every "Catholic" were removed from the US Congress, the unborn would be much safer

                    He is a secular Socialist and ardent globalist.

                    I mean, what is there for an Old Catholic not to love?
                    "The Holy Roman Church condemns, rejects, anathematizes and declares to be outside the Body of Christ, which is the Church, whoever holds opposing or contrary views.” Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by relling View Post

                      Hi Angels,

                      My take in a nutshell:

                      1st is some context.
                      His audience for this homily was Caritas Internationalis whose mission is to help the poor.

                      2nd.
                      He used the first reading of the day, Acts 15:7-21, to show that the early Christians changed their beliefs about what was required to be Christians.

                      3rd.
                      He tells his listeners they need to be ready to change what they are doing if it will benefit those they are supposed to serve (in the case of Caritas Internationalis the poor.)

                      4th.
                      My personal take is that I need to look at new ideas and understandings in what I do in my life that affects other.

                      Let us pray for one another and love one another.
                      Bergoglio's religion, such that it is, can be reduced, basically, what the Salvation Army does; sloping food on a tray for a homeless person and standing in front of Walmart at Christmas time ringing the bell.
                      "The Holy Roman Church condemns, rejects, anathematizes and declares to be outside the Body of Christ, which is the Church, whoever holds opposing or contrary views.” Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by relling View Post
                        Hi Angels,

                        My take in a nutshell:

                        1st is some context.
                        His audience for this homily was Caritas Internationalis whose mission is to help the poor.

                        2nd.
                        He used the first reading of the day, Acts 15:7-21, to show that the early Christians changed their beliefs about what was required to be Christians.

                        3rd.
                        He tells his listeners they need to be ready to change what they are doing if it will benefit those they are supposed to serve (in the case of Caritas Internationalis the poor.)

                        4th.
                        My personal take is that I need to look at new ideas and understandings in what I do in my life that affects other.

                        Let us pray for one another and love one another.
                        did they actually do that? or were they learning as new believers that following Him meant leaving behind their Jewish beliefs, those laws / rules they followed as Jews, in order to actually follow His teachings?

                        That still happens today when someone is born again and they start learning what His word teaches. it can be a slow process weeding thru the false teachings they grew up with vs what His word really does say.

                        "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                        The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mysterium Fidei View Post
                          Why don't you reunite with Rome? What does the modernist Novus Ordo sect believe that you Old Catholics could possibly object to?

                          Bergoglio clearly denies the infallibility of the papacy and the indefectibility of the Church.

                          He renounces the Church's doctrines and traditions.

                          He allows divorced and remarried to receive the sacraments,.


                          He is a pedophile protector and everyone he promotes is a sodomite or sodomite friendly
                          .

                          If every "Catholic" were removed from the US Congress, the unborn would be much safer

                          He is a secular Socialist and ardent globalist.

                          I mean, what is there for an Old Catholic not to love?
                          those are good moves...

                          and those definitely are not good!

                          yes, what is it with catholics in congress? and the SC. they should be voted out, and hopefully Trump will not nominate another catholic for SCJ!

                          I was very saddened recently to read online that one of my old catholic friends was anti pro-lifers. Her message to pro-lifers was - 'shame'.

                          "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                          The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mysterium Fidei View Post

                            Why don't you reunite with Rome? What does the modernist Novus Ordo sect believe that you Old Catholics could possibly object to?

                            Bergoglio clearly denies the infallibility of the papacy and the indefectibility of the Church.

                            He renounces the Church's doctrines and traditions.

                            He allows divorced and remarried to receive the sacraments,.

                            He is a pedophile protector and everyone he promotes is a sodomite or sodomite friendly.

                            If every "Catholic" were removed from the US Congress, the unborn would be much safer

                            He is a secular Socialist and ardent globalist.

                            I mean, what is there for an Old Catholic not to love?
                            Quoting an article from Breitbart is not a good look to begin with. I suspect the Pope is being seriously misquoted.
                            "Qostiid sahlo aak. Just because you can do a thing, does not always mean you should." Paarthurnax

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Its common anti catholic tactic. To misquote, misrepresent and vilify the opposition as much as possible.

                              Here is what the Pope said:

                              In the end, they did not need a bunch of doctrines and traditions. but the simple announcement that “God is love,” Francis said, and in the face of this great truth, “even convictions and human traditions can and must be abandoned, since they are more of an obstacle than a help."


                              He was talking about human traditions, the traditions of Men.


                              Mysterium Fidei has a license to sin. Every thread he starts is a misrepresentation. If he actually trusted God he wouldn't resort to low tactics.

                              Comment

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