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  • Jesus' family

    The RCC has liked to claim that the word for brothers in Mark 6:3 are not blood related to Him via Mary but distant relatives. This passage mentions James, Joseph, Judas and Simon and his sisters with Mary. They are mentioned in other passages,

    Mentioned again in 1 Cor 9:5 and that they are married in Gal 1:19. They use different stories to keep the Perpetual Virgin stories alive eg, they are not brothers but brethen of Jesus, they are Joseph's children from a previous marriage,However, Hegesippus [c110- 180] mentions in his writings grandsons of James who according to the flesh was called the brother of Jesus. This would mean that Jesus was an uncle. Of course these siblings are not full blood relatives (meaning same mother and father) but would be the children of Mary and Joseph.

    These grandchildren were land owners and were manual labourers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brothers_of_Jesus

    I do not understand how Mary having other children diminishes who Jesus was and is. He still is both human and divine. Mary has her reward was blessed by God with other children and lived a normal life. Her life had its ups and downs - fleeing to Egypt and watching her son's torture and death.

    Why is there such a need to make Mary more than she was? She was a mother, blessed by God.

  • #2
    John says of Christ

    Jn 2:13
    And the Jews' passover was at hand,
    and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.

    14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves,
    and the changers of money sitting:

    15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords,
    he drove them all out of the temple,
    and the sheep, and the oxen;
    and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

    16 And said unto them that sold doves,
    Take these things hence;
    make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.

    17 And his disciples remembered that it was written,
    The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.


    Psalms 69:6
    Let not them that wait on thee, O Lord God of hosts,
    be ashamed for my sake: let not those that seek thee be confounded for my sake,
    O God of Israel.

    7 Because for thy sake I have borne reproach; shame hath covered my face.

    8 I am become a stranger unto my brethren,
    and an alien unto my mother's children.

    9 For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up;
    and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.


    The RCC'ers need to pay special attention to these words
    ie:
    the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.

    Comment


    • #3
      If Mary really had other children after Jesus, then why did he ask the Apostle John to care for Mary? Here is the verse:


      When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home.
      John 19:26-27



      The bible is clear that the Son of God was conceived by the Holy Spirit and grew in the body of Mary. In the this respect she is the Theotokos (God-bearer) and Mother of God.

      As far as the Greek word, adelphos, frequently translated as "brother", the same word is used in the Greek Old Testament to refer to a wide range of relationships. For example in Genesis 13:8, Abram refers to Lot as his brother, but Abram is really Lot's uncle.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Theophilos View Post
        As far as the Greek word, adelphos, frequently translated as "brother", the same word is used in the Greek Old Testament to refer to a wide range of relationships. For example in Genesis 13:8, Abram refers to Lot as his brother, but Abram is really Lot's uncle.
        Um, that's more a reflection of the HEBREW usage, not the GREEK usage.
        "We are not to understand the other side; we are to discuss to expound the truth." -- A misguided apologist
        --------------------------------------------------------------------------
        "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
        but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
        -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Theophilos View Post
          If Mary really had other children after Jesus, then why did he ask the Apostle John to care for Mary? Here is the verse:


          When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home.
          John 19:26-27



          The bible is clear that the Son of God was conceived by the Holy Spirit and grew in the body of Mary. In the this respect she is the Theotokos (God-bearer) and Mother of God.

          As far as the Greek word, adelphos, frequently translated as "brother", the same word is used in the Greek Old Testament to refer to a wide range of relationships. For example in Genesis 13:8, Abram refers to Lot as his brother, but Abram is really Lot's uncle.
          stick to the GREEK !!!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Theo1689 View Post

            Um, that's more a reflection of the HEBREW usage, not the GREEK usage.
            No, the Greek Septuagint uses the Greek word, adelphos, in Genesis 13:8. Other passages from the Greek Old Testament also use "adelphos" for other relationships besides the sons of the same parents.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Theophilos View Post

              No, the Greek Septuagint uses the Greek word, adelphos, in Genesis 13:8. Other passages from the Greek Old Testament also use "adelphos" for other relationships besides the sons of the same parents.
              you don't understand GREEK !!!! stop twistin'

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by BaptistCrusader View Post

                stick to the GREEK !!!!!
                https://www.ellopos.net/elpenor/phys...genesis/13.asp
                Genesis 13:8 (Septuagint)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by BaptistCrusader View Post

                  you don't understand GREEK !!!! stop twistin'
                  Different languages emphasize different relationships.

                  Jews who translated the Old Testament from Hebrew into Greek chose to use the Greek word "adelphos" even in cases where it is clear that the word is not referring to sons of the same parents.

                  Realize that the dialog recorded in the gospels is likewise a translation from Hebrew or Aramaic.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Theophilos View Post
                    If Mary really had other children after Jesus, then why did he ask the Apostle John to care for Mary? Here is the verse:



                    When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home.
                    John 19:26-27




                    The bible is clear that the Son of God was conceived by the Holy Spirit and grew in the body of Mary. In the this respect she is the Theotokos (God-bearer) and Mother of God.

                    As far as the Greek word, adelphos, frequently translated as "brother", the same word is used in the Greek Old Testament to refer to a wide range of relationships. For example in Genesis 13:8, Abram refers to Lot as his brother, but Abram is really Lot's uncle.
                    AND since the Catholics have to have their PHONY ever virgin Goddess "thing", they'll try ANY RATIONALIZATION to escape the truth.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Theophilos View Post
                      If Mary really had other children after Jesus, then why did he ask the Apostle John to care for Mary? Here is the verse:


                      When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home.
                      John 19:26-27



                      The bible is clear that the Son of God was conceived by the Holy Spirit and grew in the body of Mary. In the this respect she is the Theotokos (God-bearer) and Mother of God.

                      As far as the Greek word, adelphos, frequently translated as "brother", the same word is used in the Greek Old Testament to refer to a wide range of relationships. For example in Genesis 13:8, Abram refers to Lot as his brother, but Abram is really Lot's uncle.
                      But it does not explain the other historical writings that mention Jesus had siblings or the other biblical passages. As to Jesus putting his mother in the care of another as mentioned in other threads there could be a number of reasons for this occurring. They were not there maybe because they were scared, maybe because they were embarrassed by Jesus' behaviour. Maybe they did not become believers until after his death. Maybe Jesus knew His siblings would not be around for long and John would live longer. A number of reasons for this have been posted by others and they are feasible.

                      You still have not answered the questions asked in the op but just spouted RCC theories without scripture support for those assumptions.

                      Why the need to make Mary more than she was? Jesus didn't.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                        AND since the Catholics have to have their PHONY ever virgin Goddess "thing", they'll try ANY RATIONALIZATION to escape the truth.
                        No. It is based on a careful reading of the Old Testament.

                        Mary's body is the Temple of God since it contained God incarnate. When God entered the Jewish Temple, the gate of the temple through which he entered was shut. The same applied when God entered the womb of Mary:

                        This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the Lord, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut. Ezekiel 44:1-2
                        Last edited by Theophilos; 07-04-19, 09:43 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by balshan View Post

                          But it does not explain the other historical writings that mention Jesus had siblings or the other biblical passages. As to Jesus putting his mother in the care of another as mentioned in other threads there could be a number of reasons for this occurring. They were not there maybe because they were scared, maybe because they were embarrassed by Jesus' behaviour. Maybe they did not become believers until after his death. Maybe Jesus knew His siblings would not be around for long and John would live longer. A number of reasons for this have been posted by others and they are feasible.

                          You still have not answered the questions asked in the op but just spouted RCC theories without scripture support for those assumptions.

                          Why the need to make Mary more than she was? Jesus didn't.
                          No, the problem is that people have lost the context that was clear to early Greek-speaking Christians who used the Septuagint as their Old Testament.

                          Here is a modern example. I have a children's bible that shows a drawing of the disciples eating from ears of corn (maize) based on this verse:

                          And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn. Matthew 2:23 (KJV)

                          In American English the word corn has taken on the meaning "Indian corn" or "maize", but maize did not exist in the Middle East until after Columbus. "Corn" really means "grain" (probably wheat or barley) in this context, which is still the case in British English, but the American artist lost that understanding.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Theophilos View Post

                            No, the problem is that people have lost the context that was clear to early Greek-speaking Christians who used the Septuagint as their Old Testament.

                            Here is a modern example. I have a children's bible that shows a drawing of the disciples eating from ears of corn (maize) based on this verse:

                            And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn. Matthew 2:23 (KJV)

                            In American English the word corn has taken on the meaning "Indian corn" or "maize", but maize did not exist in the Middle East until after Columbus. "Corn" really means "grain" (probably wheat or barley) in this context, which is still the case in British English, but the American artist lost that understanding.
                            No the problem is the RCC institution had to make up a context that wasn't clear to early Greek-speaking Jewish believers. It is the only way to elevate Mary to a position she was never meant to be. She is not standing on a pedestal, she is not a goddess, she does not have any attributes that are God and God's alone.

                            Sometimes a word means exactly what it says. Like brother means brother.

                            Still avoiding answering the question in the op, try it, it would be a nice change if you just answered questions proposed instead of giving us the RCC institution line. By the way are you an Australian politican you are following what they do. Just repeat what you want to say and don't answer any questions.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Theophilos View Post

                              No,
                              Um, YES.

                              the Greek Septuagint uses the Greek word, adelphos, in Genesis 13:8.
                              Irrelevant.
                              The Greek Septuagint was originally written in HEBREW, not "Greek".

                              Other passages from the Greek Old Testament also use "adelphos" for other relationships besides the sons of the same parents.
                              Irrelevant.
                              The LXX is a TRANSLATION of the Hebrew.
                              "We are not to understand the other side; we are to discuss to expound the truth." -- A misguided apologist
                              --------------------------------------------------------------------------
                              "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
                              but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
                              -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

                              Comment

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