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only declared 7 things infallibly ???

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  • only declared 7 things infallibly ???

    Originally posted by utilyan View Post
    I'm sure the CHURCH taught world was flat too. The concept of infallibility once again proves too complicated for our brethren.

    I think the church has only declared 7 things infallible?
    A claim as been made:

    What are these 7 things?
    If I give an example of a Catholic teaching or declaration: would Carm-posting Catholics be able to tell me if it was declared infallible?
    One of the ekklēsia

  • #2
    Originally posted by tester View Post

    A claim as been made:

    What are these 7 things?
    If I give an example of a Catholic teaching or declaration: would Carm-posting Catholics be able to tell me if it was declared infallible?
    Hi Tester,

    I think our friend utilyan meant to say Popes have used their charism of infallibility as it was defined at Vatican II seven times.

    Let us pray for one another and love one another.
    -Ray-

    The Good News is that Jesus Christ died and rose for our sins so that we might be saved.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by relling View Post

      Hi Tester,

      I think our friend utilyan meant to say Popes have used their charism of infallibility as it was defined at Vatican II seven times.

      Let us pray for one another and love one another.
      the question remains:
      What are these 7 things?
      One of the ekklēsia

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by relling View Post

        Hi Tester,

        I think our friend utilyan meant to say Popes have used their charism of infallibility as it was defined at Vatican II seven times.

        Let us pray for one another and love one another.
        This shows a couple of things.

        1. Still, no catholic has ever produced a verse which even comes close to suggesting there is such a thing as humans being infallible
        2. "If" there was such a thing, it would be a tremendous insult to the Holy Spirit to use such a gift so infrequently, meaning almost never.

        The gifts of the Spirit are for the use in the church body for its growth and edification. If i gave you some expensive, unique one of a kind gift and you never used it, would i not be offended?

        The sheer lack of any infallible declarations coming from rome in 1500 years (approx) is proof it has no idea what its talking about. The few verses it does claim to have declared infallibly are wrong. So, theres that.
        Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post

          This shows a couple of things.

          1. Still, no catholic has ever produced a verse which even comes close to suggesting there is such a thing as humans being infallible
          2. "If" there was such a thing, it would be a tremendous insult to the Holy Spirit to use such a gift so infrequently, meaning almost never.

          The gifts of the Spirit are for the use in the church body for its growth and edification. If i gave you some expensive, unique one of a kind gift and you never used it, would i not be offended?

          The sheer lack of any infallible declarations coming from rome in 1500 years (approx) is proof it has no idea what its talking about. The few verses it does claim to have declared infallibly are wrong. So, theres that.
          Hi Nondenom,

          There have been many infallible declarations by the Catholic Church in 2000 years.

          Let us pray for one another and love one another.
          -Ray-

          The Good News is that Jesus Christ died and rose for our sins so that we might be saved.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by relling View Post

            Hi Nondenom,

            There have been many infallible declarations by the Catholic Church in 2000 years.

            Let us pray for one another and love one another.
            If I give an example of a Catholic teaching or declaration: would Carm-posting Catholics be able to tell me if it was declared infallible?
            One of the ekklēsia

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by relling View Post

              Hi Nondenom,

              There have been many infallible declarations by the Catholic Church in 2000 years.

              Let us pray for one another and love one another.
              List them.
              Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by relling View Post

                Hi Nondenom,

                There have been many infallible declarations by the Catholic Church in 2000 years.

                Let us pray for one another and love one another.
                is this one of them?
                "Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."
                One of the ekklēsia

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by relling View Post

                  Hi Nondenom,

                  There have been many infallible declarations by the Catholic Church in 2000 years.

                  Let us pray for one another and love one another.
                  is this one?
                  Is Ordinatio Sacerdotalis from 1994 an infallible doctrine or not?


                  from EWTN
                  "In fact, it is a textbook case of infallibility in action."
                  https://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/ORDIN.TXT


                  from US Catholic
                  Canonists and theologians the world over argued that the teaching was not infallible for a variety of reasons. -"
                  http://www.uscatholic.org/blog/2011/...ens-ordination
                  One of the ekklēsia

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tester View Post

                    A claim as been made:

                    What are these 7 things?
                    If I give an example of a Catholic teaching or declaration: would Carm-posting Catholics be able to tell me if it was declared infallible?
                    I actually heard they had only declared 5 things infallibly ...but just like you can not get a number you can not find out the scriptures they have agreed on
                    Have I now become your enemy because I tell you the truth ? Gal 4:16

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by relling View Post

                      Hi Nondenom,

                      There have been many infallible declarations by the Catholic Church in 2000 years.

                      Let us pray for one another and love one another.

                      "Furthermore, in order to restrain petulant spirits, It decrees, that no one, relying on his own skill, shall,--in matters of faith, and of morals pertaining to the edification of Christian doctrine, --wresting the sacred Scripture to his own senses, presume to interpret the said sacred Scripture contrary to that sense which holy mother Church,--whose it is to judge of the true sense and interpretation of the holy Scriptures,--hath held and doth hold;"
                      - Council of Trent

                      This is not about Romanist doctrine.. this is about the infallible declaration of Scripture .... RCs love to say only the church can interpret doctrine.. but the truth is in 1900 + years the Magisterium has only found agreement on a handful of scripture..
                      Have I now become your enemy because I tell you the truth ? Gal 4:16

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by relling View Post
                        Hi Nondenom,

                        There have been many infallible declarations by the Catholic Church in 2000 years.

                        Let us pray for one another and love one another.
                        0 - nor has it existed 2000 yrs.

                        "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                        The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Calsgal View Post


                          "Furthermore, in order to restrain petulant spirits, It decrees, that no one, relying on his own skill, shall,--in matters of faith, and of morals pertaining to the edification of Christian doctrine, --wresting the sacred Scripture to his own senses, presume to interpret the said sacred Scripture contrary to that sense which holy mother Church,--whose it is to judge of the true sense and interpretation of the holy Scriptures,--hath held and doth hold;"
                          - Council of Trent

                          This is not about Romanist doctrine.. this is about the infallible declaration of Scripture .... RCs love to say only the church can interpret doctrine.. but the truth is in 1900 + years the Magisterium has only found agreement on a handful of scripture..
                          " ... that no one, relying on his own skill, shall,--in matters of faith, and of morals pertaining to the edification of Christian doctrine ..."

                          And yet, Scripture states:

                          2Pet 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
                          2Pet 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
                          Confirm Your Calling and Election
                          2Pet 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
                          1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Calsgal View Post


                            "Furthermore, in order to restrain petulant spirits, It decrees, that no one, relying on his own skill, shall,--in matters of faith, and of morals pertaining to the edification of Christian doctrine, --wresting the sacred Scripture to his own senses, presume to interpret the said sacred Scripture contrary to that sense which holy mother Church,--whose it is to judge of the true sense and interpretation of the holy Scriptures,--hath held and doth hold;"
                            - Council of Trent

                            This is not about Romanist doctrine.. this is about the infallible declaration of Scripture .... RCs love to say only the church can interpret doctrine.. but the truth is in 1900 + years the Magisterium has only found agreement on a handful of scripture..
                            Hi Calsgal,

                            There are, in my view, 3 separate but connected issues that seem to be going on by different folks in this thread.

                            1. Doctrine infallibly defined by a pope ie. Papal Infallibility.

                            2. Doctrine infallibly defined by an ecumenical church council.

                            3. Scripture that has been so-called infallibly interpreted.

                            BTW - I regularly interpret Scripture.

                            I think what you might mean is that only the Catholic Church can authentically interpret Scripture.(para 100 in the Catechism of the Catholic Church).

                            Let us pray for one another and love one another.
                            -Ray-

                            The Good News is that Jesus Christ died and rose for our sins so that we might be saved.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by relling View Post

                              Hi Calsgal,

                              There are, in my view, 3 separate but connected issues that seem to be going on by different folks in this thread.

                              1. Doctrine infallibly defined by a pope ie. Papal Infallibility.

                              2. Doctrine infallibly defined by an ecumenical church council.

                              3. Scripture that has been so-called infallibly interpreted.

                              BTW - I regularly interpret Scripture.

                              I think what you might mean is that only the Catholic Church can authentically interpret Scripture.(para 100 in the Catechism of the Catholic Church).

                              Let us pray for one another and love one another.
                              what is the RCC definition of that?

                              "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                              The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                              Comment

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