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Whats's wrong with repetitive prayer?

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  • Whats's wrong with repetitive prayer?

    Luke 11: 5 And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? 8 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.

  • #2
    Originally posted by poster2262 View Post
    Luke 11: 5 And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? 8 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.
    I think we should make a distinction between persistent prayer and unnecessarily wordy prayer. After all, Jesus also said:

    And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. (Mt 6:7-8)

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    • #3
      Originally posted by poster2262 View Post
      Luke 11: 5 And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? 8 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.
      Persistent doesn't mean repetitive. I can go to God about something repeatedly, but not using the same verbage. Its called communication. Your hail marys are repetitive. Its the same thing over and over and over and over and over.......who wants to hear that? If you told you husband or wife 'i love you' 500 times in a row, it might be nice the first few times but it gets old quick. If you need to talk to God, talk to Him. Don't blindly, mindlessly repeat the same thing. Btw, He really wants to hear prayers of repentance....catholics take the hint.
      Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

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      • #4
        Originally posted by poster2262 View Post
        Whats's wrong with repetitive prayer?
        Basically, it becomes meaningless after a while....

        George Carlin was a great example, he talked about confession, and being given so many "Our Father's" or "Hail Mary's" to recite, and he could recite whichever one in under half a second. When you say something often enough, it become "automatic", and people stop thinking about the meaning, because they have learned to say it without HAVING to think about the words.

        I find the same thing happening when I sing well-known hymns. Sometimes I have to force myself to think about the words, since I've sung them so often I know the words by heart, and if I'm not careful, I can go into "autopilot" and start letting my mind wander.

        And this can happen with Scripture as well, and results in very frustrating attempts at discussion, because people are so familiar with certain "proof-texts" that they THINK they know what they say, and are so confident that they don't notice where they're wrong. A perfect example of this happened a couple of days ago when a Catholic falsely claimed John 3:5 said, "born AGAIN of water", since that's how he UNDERSTANDS the verse, and a couple of us had to point out to him that that is NOT what the verse said, and even the first couple of times, he refused to be corrected.
        "We are not to understand the other side; we are to discuss to expound the truth." -- A misguided apologist
        --------------------------------------------------------------------------
        "The Law is a storm which wrecks your hopes of self-salvation,
        but washes you upon the Rock of Ages."
        -- Charles Haddon Spurgeon

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        • #5
          Originally posted by poster2262 View Post
          Luke 11: 5 And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? 8 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.
          Luk 11:8 — I say unto you, Though he will not rise and give him, because he is his friend, yet because of his importunity he will rise and give him as many as he needeth.

          importunity
          ~ G335 - ἀναίδεια - anaideia - Recklessness, audacity, shamelessness, insolence. Recklessness or disregard of consideration by the one making the request; earnestness and perseverance in prayer.

          Examples: Abraham's intercession for Sodom in Genesis 18:23-33; the Syro-Phoenician woman in Matthew 15:22-28; the watchmen upon the walls of Jerusalem in Isaiah 62:3-12.
          Let thy mercies come also unto me, O LORD, even thy salvation, according to thy word. So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word. (Ps. 119:41-42)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Theo1689 View Post
            Basically, it becomes meaningless after a while....

            George Carlin was a great example, he talked about confession, and being given so many "Our Father's" or "Hail Mary's" to recite, and he could recite whichever one in under half a second. When you say something often enough, it become "automatic", and people stop thinking about the meaning, because they have learned to say it without HAVING to think about the words.

            I find the same thing happening when I sing well-known hymns. Sometimes I have to force myself to think about the words, since I've sung them so often I know the words by heart, and if I'm not careful, I can go into "autopilot" and start letting my mind wander.

            And this can happen with Scripture as well, and results in very frustrating attempts at discussion, because people are so familiar with certain "proof-texts" that they THINK they know what they say, and are so confident that they don't notice where they're wrong. A perfect example of this happened a couple of days ago when a Catholic falsely claimed John 3:5 said, "born AGAIN of water", since that's how he UNDERSTANDS the verse, and a couple of us had to point out to him that that is NOT what the verse said, and even the first couple of times, he refused to be corrected.
            yes, that happens over and over again on here. they've been taught that is what that vs means and that is how they 'read' it and believe it. post a correction and a few day later, they'll post the very same thing again.

            "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

            The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by poster2262 View Post
              Luke 11: 5 And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? 8 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.
              Was it rote repetition from a scroll or tradition?
              1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by poster2262 View Post
                Luke 11: 5 And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? 8 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.
                This has nothing to do with repetitive prayer ... asking frequently is not mindless "repetitive" prayer asking in the same words over and over ...
                With the rosary no one is listening anyway
                Have I now become your enemy because I tell you the truth ? Gal 4:16

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by poster2262 View Post
                  Luke 11: 5 And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? 8 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.
                  Nothing is wrong with repeating holy words having holy meaning. For example, the teaching you cite in the OP brings immediately to mind the prayer that Jesus Himself gave us to pray, saying

                  Luk 11:2 And he said to them, "When you pray, say: "Father, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come.
                  Luk 11:3 Give us each day our daily bread;

                  This petition is precisely for "us" - for our "daily bread". That is a prayer we ought to pray daily at least, because we - WE - are always in need of our bread - the Bread of Life - every day. And only Jesus can provide this Bread for us - for all of us, including for this "friend of mine [who] has come to me on his journey."

                  All prayers passed on to us that have their origin in God Himself - the Holy Spirit, or the Son Jesus - deserve to be prayed frequently, time and time again, because we can never reach the end of the meaning that His holy words have for us! I began to pray the holy prayer the Our Father seriously, earnestly, with attention and devotion, about 20 years ago - and the prayer continues to deepen for me. It continues to feed me, to guide me, to illuminate my heart and soul - it is the power of God, the light of God. Only a very foolish, presumptuous man would spurn this prayer, these holy words of Jesus.

                  I used to race through the words of this prayer without letting them touch me, for years - until about 20 years ago. Then, I began to hear them. They have never stopped speaking to me, since.
                  ... For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed;...
                  But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. (Rom 13)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by poster2262 View Post
                    Luke 11: 5 And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? 8 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.
                    what do you think is the purpose of prayer?
                    Does repetitive prayer (which is different than persistent prayer) fulfill that purpose?
                    One of the ekklēsia

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tester View Post

                      what do you think is the purpose of prayer?
                      Does repetitive prayer (which is different than persistent prayer) fulfill that purpose?
                      The purpose of prayer is union with God.
                      Prayer that advances this purpose is good. Prayer that is merely concerned with the fulfillment of one's own desires may or may not advance that purpose - depending upon the desires of the one praying.
                      ... For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed;...
                      But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. (Rom 13)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Thomas View Post

                        The purpose of prayer is union with God....
                        You forgot union with your 'Mother of God'.
                        Last edited by PeanutGallery; 08-05-19, 11:47 AM.
                        1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PeanutGallery View Post
                          You forgot union with the 'Mother of God' (sic).
                          How ironic, coming from you. I did not forget; union with God brings union with all who are in union with Him - including, preeminently, HIs holy mother.
                          ... For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed;...
                          But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. (Rom 13)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by poster2262 View Post
                            Luke 11: 5 And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; 6 for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; 7 and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? 8 I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs.
                            Its not how you pray but to whom you pray. Philippians 4:6 say" Be anxious for nothing but in everything by prayer and supplications with thanksgiving let your requests be made unto GOD,and the Peace of God which surpasses (All Catholic) understanding will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus..

                            Without Love we are nothing more than noise makers.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Thomas View Post
                              Nothing is wrong with repeating holy words having holy meaning. For example, the teaching you cite in the OP brings immediately to mind the prayer that Jesus Himself gave us to pray, saying

                              Luk 11:2 And he said to them, "When you pray, say: "Father, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come.
                              Luk 11:3 Give us each day our daily bread;

                              This petition is precisely for "us" - for our "daily bread". That is a prayer we ought to pray daily at least, because we - WE - are always in need of our bread - the Bread of Life - every day. And only Jesus can provide this Bread for us - for all of us, including for this "friend of mine [who] has come to me on his journey."

                              All prayers passed on to us that have their origin in God Himself - the Holy Spirit, or the Son Jesus - deserve to be prayed frequently, time and time again, because we can never reach the end of the meaning that His holy words have for us!
                              Then I would think that you would believe the same about ALL of His word, not just a few of those He has given us. So why do you then put aside the rest of His word for the words of man?

                              I began to pray the holy prayer the Our Father seriously, earnestly, with attention and devotion, about 20 years ago - and the prayer continues to deepen for me. It continues to feed me, to guide me, to illuminate my heart and soul - it is the power of God, the light of God. Only a very foolish, presumptuous man would spurn this prayer, these holy words of Jesus.

                              I used to race through the words of this prayer without letting them touch me, for years - until about 20 years ago. Then, I began to hear them. They have never stopped speaking to me, since.
                              All of His word is that - Jesus is the light of God that is given to us. Then why is the RCC priority to catholics instead of Jesus?


                              "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                              The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

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