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  • Is Ths True?

    Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist

    July 25, 2019
    The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, also known as Holy Communion and the Lord's Supper, is both biblical and historical.

    There are many bible verses showing what Christ meant when he said, "Take, eat; this is My Body."

    As Christians, it is not enough to simply believe in Christ. We must also believe Christ. This means we must believe and do what He says.

    That is a key difference between Catholics and many protestant faiths. We Catholics believe Jesus while protestants do not believe Jesus when He says "This is My Body" and "This is My Blood".

    EDIT Image violation

    For the first 1600 years of Christianity all Christians believed in the Real Presence in the Eucharist. Luther and Calvin believed in the real presence in the Eucharist in a sense. It was Zwingli who is known as the first person in Christian history to deny the Real Presence in 1529.

    The question really becomes, who do you follow on the Real Presence in the Eucharist? Christ or Zwingli?


    Many Christians say they believe in receiving communion at their local Church or Congregation. The only problem for them is that they do not have a Priest to Consecrate the Host.

    They do not have the Holy Orders Christ instituted on the Apostles to pray over the Bread and Wine that will make the Bread and Wine the Body and Blood of Christ.

    In the Bible we read many verses of what is meant by the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Let us begin:
    Last edited by Mod8; 09-13-19, 08:40 AM. Reason: image issue

  • #2
    Yes, the Eucharist is truly Jesus' body, blood, soul and divinity, which can be received only at Mass.

    Blessings
    May the most holy, most sacred, most adorable, most incomprehensible and ineffable Name of God be forever praised, blessed, loved, adored and glorified in Heaven, on Earth, and under the Earth by all the creatures of God and by the Sacred Heart of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar. Amen.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Philomena View Post
      Yes, the Eucharist is truly Jesus' body, blood, soul and divinity, which can be received only at Mass.

      Blessings
      Excuse me, but that wafer "can be received" in a hospital, at a persons house, on a battlefield, in a convalescent home, in a jail cell, - just about anywhere actually. So to say that the ivory-colored tissue thin wafer "can be received ONLY at Mass" is completely untrue.
      RC's do know God, but the Bible indicates that it is a knowledge in condemnation, a knowledge enabling them to know things about themselves and the world around them, even though they suppress the truth of God which makes such knowledge possible.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post
        Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist

        July 25, 2019
        The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, also known as Holy Communion and the Lord's Supper, is both biblical and historical.

        There are many bible verses showing what Christ meant when he said, "Take, eat; this is My Body."

        As Christians, it is not enough to simply believe in Christ. We must also believe Christ. This means we must believe and do what He says.

        That is a key difference between Catholics and many protestant faiths. We Catholics believe Jesus while protestants do not believe Jesus when He says "This is My Body" and "This is My Blood".

        Image violation

        For the first 1600 years of Christianity all Christians believed in the Real Presence in the Eucharist. Luther and Calvin believed in the real presence in the Eucharist in a sense. It was Zwingli who is known as the first person in Christian history to deny the Real Presence in 1529.

        The question really becomes, who do you follow on the Real Presence in the Eucharist? Christ or Zwingli?

        Many Christians say they believe in receiving communion at their local Church or Congregation. The only problem for them is that they do not have a Priest to Consecrate the Host.

        They do not have the Holy Orders Christ instituted on the Apostles to pray over the Bread and Wine that will make the Bread and Wine the Body and Blood of Christ.

        In the Bible we read many verses of what is meant by the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Let us begin:
        I speak as to wise men: judge ye yourselves what I say. The chalice of benediction, which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? And the bread, which we break, is it not the partaking of the body of the Lord? For we, being many,are one bread, one body, all that partake of one bread. Behold Israel according to the flesh: are not they, that eat of the sacrifices, partakers of the altar?"
        [1 Corinthians 10:15-18]
        JoeT
        Last edited by Mod8; 09-13-19, 08:41 AM. Reason: quote box
        Sigillum Militum Χρisti † / "Truth exists. The Incarnation happened."

        Totus Tuus, "Totally yours . . . Keep me in this union".

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post

          Excuse me, but that wafer "can be received" in a hospital, at a persons house, on a battlefield, in a convalescent home, in a jail cell, - just about anywhere actually. So to say that the ivory-colored tissue thin wafer "can be received ONLY at Mass" is completely untrue.
          The Eucharist is confected only by a priest at Mass (or Divine Liturgy in Orthodox Church), not by any other minister at any Protestant service.

          How's that?

          Blessings
          May the most holy, most sacred, most adorable, most incomprehensible and ineffable Name of God be forever praised, blessed, loved, adored and glorified in Heaven, on Earth, and under the Earth by all the creatures of God and by the Sacred Heart of Our Lord Jesus Christ in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar. Amen.

          Comment


          • #6
            Actually, the Dogma of Transubstantiation was brought to the RCC in 1215 by Innocent III, Pope of Rome.

            The results of this dogma are not surprising.

            Rank and File Roman Catholics throughout the RC world imagined that transubstantiation was an "obvious truth" and they became convinced that their non-catholic friends often absconded with the communion hosts. Thousands of people (mostly non-Catholic) were burnt at the stake or were punished in other medieval ways after Innocent's declaration. The reality of course was different. why would non-catholics care at all about the Catholic belief?

            Its called "host desecration", and even today some RC's imagine that "black masses" are being said by renegade priests who are stealing communion bread.

            I suppose anything that can be done has been done, and there may be an actual case of real host desecration out there. But not as often as medieval or modern RC's imagine.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post
              Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist

              July 25, 2019

              As Christians, it is not enough to simply believe in Christ. We must also believe Christ. This means we must believe and do what He says.

              That is a key difference between Catholics and many protestant faiths.We Catholics believe Jesus while protestants do not believe Jesus


              "We Catholics believe Jesus"-- In all actuality, you only believe the things about Jesus that the rcc tells you to believe. If you actually believed HIM, you would take HIS teaching on tradition to heart.

              Matthew 15:3But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

              Matthew 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

              Mark 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

              Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

              Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.



              But NOOOO! The one Unholy Apostate catholic church tells you that Tradition is equally valid as scripture and you believe it. Not only that, but rc's go out of their way to twist scripture to fit what rome tells you to believe. Never minding the fact that the above five verses are the only ones in which Jesus says anything about tradition, you also ignore the more than 100 verses in which Jesus quotes or refers to the old testament scriptures.

              MARK 7:7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

              Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
              Last edited by Mod8; 09-13-19, 08:46 AM. Reason: Too many URLs-- Only 2 permitted per post.
              The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.Psalms 12:6

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Southsider View Post
                Actually, the Dogma of Transubstantiation was brought to the RCC in 1215 by Innocent III, Pope of Rome.

                The results of this dogma are not surprising.

                Rank and File Roman Catholics throughout the RC world imagined that transubstantiation was an "obvious truth" and they became convinced that their non-catholic friends often absconded with the communion hosts. Thousands of people (mostly non-Catholic) were burnt at the stake or were punished in other medieval ways after Innocent's declaration. The reality of course was different. why would non-catholics care at all about the Catholic belief?

                Its called "host desecration", and even today some RC's imagine that "black masses" are being said by renegade priests who are stealing communion bread.

                I suppose anything that can be done has been done, and there may be an actual case of real host desecration out there. But not as often as medieval or modern RC's imagine.
                huh. Jesus didn't even do that when they in reality desecrated His own physical body. so unChrist like.

                I think the RCC does (did) that stuff for attention. as a kid in a catholic school we weren't taught this
                transubstantiation stuff. I only found out about it maybe 10 yrs ago. I emailed my long time friend who was a long time catholic who also left the RCC in the late 70s to ask her about it. She said she'd only recently heard this and was grossed out about it.

                the nuns and priests might have known about it but they didn't go into such detail with kids. we couldn't chew it or throw up after communion but to the extreme of believing it is really, really His body, blood etc in that wafer - no. I'd have never gone to communion if I'd have known that.

                "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post
                  Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist

                  July 25, 2019
                  The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, also known as Holy Communion and the Lord's Supper, is both biblical and historical.

                  There are many bible verses showing what Christ meant when he said, "Take, eat; this is My Body."

                  As Christians, it is not enough to simply believe in Christ. We must also believe Christ. This means we must believe and do what He says.

                  That is a key difference between Catholics and many protestant faiths. We Catholics believe Jesus while protestants do not believe Jesus when He says "This is My Body" and "This is My Blood".



                  For the first 1600 years of Christianity all Christians believed in the Real Presence in the Eucharist. Luther and Calvin believed in the real presence in the Eucharist in a sense. It was Zwingli who is known as the first person in Christian history to deny the Real Presence in 1529.

                  The question really becomes, who do you follow on the Real Presence in the Eucharist? Christ or Zwingli?

                  Many Christians say they believe in receiving communion at their local Church or Congregation. The only problem for them is that they do not have a Priest to Consecrate the Host.

                  They do not have the Holy Orders Christ instituted on the Apostles to pray over the Bread and Wine that will make the Bread and Wine the Body and Blood of Christ.

                  In the Bible we read many verses of what is meant by the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Let us begin:
                  it only shows that they are not always literalists.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post



                    For the first 1600 years of Christianity all Christians believed in the Real Presence in the Eucharist. Luther and Calvin believed in the real presence in the Eucharist in a sense. It was Zwingli who is known as the first person in Christian history to deny the Real Presence in 1529.

                    Zwingli was NOT the first

                    Clement of Alexandrie
                    (Paedagogus 1:6)
                    “But you are not inclined to understand it thus, but perchance more generally. Hear it also in the following way. The flesh figuratively represents to us the Holy Spirit; for the flesh was created by Him. The blood points out to us the Word, for as rich blood the Word has been infused into life; and the union of both is the Lord, the food of the babes–the Lord who is Spirit and Word. The food- that is, the Lord Jesus–that is, the Word of God, the Spirit made flesh, the heavenly flesh sanctified…”
                    -----------------------
                    And earlier in that chapter Clement said this:
                    “But we are God-taught, and glory in the name of Christ. How then are we not to regard the apostle as attaching this sense to the milk of the babes? And if we who preside over the Churches are shepherds after the image of the good Shepherd, and you the sheep, are we not to regard the Lord as preserving consistency in the use of figurative speech, when He speaks also of the milk of the flock?… Elsewhere the Lord, in the Gospel according to John, brought this out by symbols, when He said: “Eat ye my flesh, and drink my blood; ” describing distinctly by metaphor the drinkable properties of faith and the promise, by means of which the Church, like a human being consisting of many members, is refreshed and grows, is welded together and compacted of both,–of faith, which is the body, and of hope, which is the soul; as also the Lord of flesh and blood. For in reality the blood of faith is hope, in which faith is held as by a vital principle.

                    And Clement concludes the chapter with this:
                    “Thus in many ways the Word is figuratively described, as meat, and flesh, and food, and bread, and blood, and milk. The Lord is all these, to give enjoyment to us who have believed on Him. Let no one then think it strange, when we say that the Lord’s blood is figuratively represented as milk. For is it not figuratively represented as wine? “Who washes,” it is said, “His garment in wine, His robe in the blood of the grape.” In His Own Spirit He says He will deck the body of the Word; as certainly by His own Spirit He will nourish those who hunger for the Word.
                    One of the ekklēsia

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Is Ths True?
                      Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post
                      Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist
                      ...
                      No! Jesus did not eat himself, nor drink alcoholic wine.
                      1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Faith1960 View Post
                        Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist

                        July 25, 2019
                        The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, also known as Holy Communion and the Lord's Supper, is both biblical and historical.

                        There are many bible verses showing what Christ meant when he said, "Take, eat; this is My Body."

                        As Christians, it is not enough to simply believe in Christ. We must also believe Christ. This means we must believe and do what He says.

                        That is a key difference between Catholics and many protestant faiths. We Catholics believe Jesus while protestants do not believe Jesus when He says "This is My Body" and "This is My Blood".

                        EDIT Image violation

                        For the first 1600 years of Christianity all Christians believed in the Real Presence in the Eucharist. Luther and Calvin believed in the real presence in the Eucharist in a sense. It was Zwingli who is known as the first person in Christian history to deny the Real Presence in 1529.

                        The question really becomes, who do you follow on the Real Presence in the Eucharist? Christ or Zwingli?


                        Many Christians say they believe in receiving communion at their local Church or Congregation. The only problem for them is that they do not have a Priest to Consecrate the Host.

                        They do not have the Holy Orders Christ instituted on the Apostles to pray over the Bread and Wine that will make the Bread and Wine the Body and Blood of Christ.

                        In the Bible we read many verses of what is meant by the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. Let us begin:
                        So, where did Jesus say a priest must say a few magic words and turn Him into a cracker?
                        The federal government is the only place in the world where ineptitude and corruption is met with demands for more ineptitude and corruption. - Buck Sexton

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          St. Clement of Alexandria:
                          "The Blood of the Lord, indeed, is twofold. There is His corporeal Blood, by which we are redeemed from corruption; and His spiritual Blood, that with which we are anointed. That is to say, to drink the Blood of Jesus is to share in His immortality. The strength of the Word is the Spirit just as the blood is the strength of the body. Similarly, as wine is blended with water, so is the Spirit with man. The one, the Watered Wine, nourishes in faith, while the other, the Spirit, leads us on to immortality. The union of both, however, - of the drink and of the Word, - is called the Eucharist, a praiseworthy and excellent gift. Those who partake of it in faith are sanctified in body and in soul. By the will of the Father, the divine mixture, man, is mystically united to the Spirit and to the Word.",

                          -"The Instructor of the Children". [2,2,19,4] ante 202 A.D.,

                          "The Word is everything to a child: both Father and Mother, both Instructor and Nurse. 'Eat My Flesh,' He says, 'and drink My Blood.' The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients. He delivers over His Flesh, and pours out His Blood; and nothing is lacking for the growth of His children. O incredible mystery!",

                          -"The Instructor of the Children" [1,6,41,3] ante 202 A.D.. ,

                          1Jn 2:19; Jn 6:53

                          "...wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” Ignatius-Antioch

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by tester View Post
                            Zwingli was NOT the first

                            Clement of Alexandrie
                            (Paedagogus 1:6)
                            “But you are not inclined to understand it thus, but perchance more generally. Hear it also in the following way. The flesh figuratively represents to us the Holy Spirit; for the flesh was created by Him. The blood points out to us the Word, for as rich blood the Word has been infused into life; and the union of both is the Lord, the food of the babes–the Lord who is Spirit and Word. The food- that is, the Lord Jesus–that is, the Word of God, the Spirit made flesh, the heavenly flesh sanctified…”
                            -----------------------
                            And earlier in that chapter Clement said this:
                            “But we are God-taught, and glory in the name of Christ. How then are we not to regard the apostle as attaching this sense to the milk of the babes? And if we who preside over the Churches are shepherds after the image of the good Shepherd, and you the sheep, are we not to regard the Lord as preserving consistency in the use of figurative speech, when He speaks also of the milk of the flock?… Elsewhere the Lord, in the Gospel according to John, brought this out by symbols, when He said: “Eat ye my flesh, and drink my blood; ” describing distinctly by metaphor the drinkable properties of faith and the promise, by means of which the Church, like a human being consisting of many members, is refreshed and grows, is welded together and compacted of both,–of faith, which is the body, and of hope, which is the soul; as also the Lord of flesh and blood. For in reality the blood of faith is hope, in which faith is held as by a vital principle.

                            And Clement concludes the chapter with this:
                            “Thus in many ways the Word is figuratively described, as meat, and flesh, and food, and bread, and blood, and milk. The Lord is all these, to give enjoyment to us who have believed on Him. Let no one then think it strange, when we say that the Lord’s blood is figuratively represented as milk. For is it not figuratively represented as wine? “Who washes,” it is said, “His garment in wine, His robe in the blood of the grape.” In His Own Spirit He says He will deck the body of the Word; as certainly by His own Spirit He will nourish those who hunger for the Word.
                            Oh, the idea of transubstantiation is there. Notice what he wrote in that same book:

                            "And we have shown a little above, that on pregnancy blood passes into milk by a change which does not affect its substance.

                            ****************

                            1. Matter is anything that has mass and occupies space. For example, a pencil, notebook, and table are things that have mass and occupy space. The real or essential part of anything is called substance. When we speak of substance in reference to matter, a substance is composed of either one kind of element, or more than one kind of element. The smallest unit of an element is the atom. The three main particles of atoms are protons, neutrons, and electrons.

                            Introduction to Chemistry for the Choctaw Nation


                            ​​​​​​​
                            31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. 32Before him will be gathered all the nations,.." (Mt. 25) May the Divine assistance remain always with us and the Choctaw Nation.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Arch Stanton View Post
                              St. Clement of Alexandria:
                              "The Blood of the Lord, indeed, is twofold. There is His corporeal Blood, by which we are redeemed from corruption; and His spiritual Blood, that with which we are anointed. That is to say, to drink the Blood of Jesus is to share in His immortality. The strength of the Word is the Spirit just as the blood is the strength of the body. Similarly, as wine is blended with water, so is the Spirit with man. The one, the Watered Wine, nourishes in faith, while the other, the Spirit, leads us on to immortality. The union of both, however, - of the drink and of the Word, - is called the Eucharist, a praiseworthy and excellent gift. Those who partake of it in faith are sanctified in body and in soul. By the will of the Father, the divine mixture, man, is mystically united to the Spirit and to the Word.",

                              -"The Instructor of the Children". [2,2,19,4] ante 202 A.D.,

                              "The Word is everything to a child: both Father and Mother, both Instructor and Nurse. 'Eat My Flesh,' He says, 'and drink My Blood.' The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients. He delivers over His Flesh, and pours out His Blood; and nothing is lacking for the growth of His children. O incredible mystery!",

                              -"The Instructor of the Children" [1,6,41,3] ante 202 A.D.. ,

                              Where does scripture, Jesus, or his apostles state those things?
                              1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

                              Comment

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