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  • Gather 'Round Peter

    .
    I was baptized an infant into the Roman Catholic Church in 1944. When old enough, my mom put me into Catechism where, in time. I managed to complete First Holy Communion and Confirmation. Our church attendance on Sunday was fairly regular. We didn't always make it, but most of the time did.

    The liturgy incorporated homilies based upon the apostle Peter's epistles; which I sort of let go in one ear and out the other. It wasn't till years later when I caught on that Peter spoke for Christ, and that non compliance with Peter's instructions is all the same as non compliance with Christ's; it's a domino effect all the way to the top.

    Luke 10:16 . .Whoever listens to you; listens to me. Whoever rejects you; rejects me. And whoever rejects me; rejects the one who sent me.

    Paul's epistles have much to say about one's personal conduct, and Peter's do too; in point of fact: quite much. I've included a few of his instructions in this post which, if complied with, will make any Christian on either side of aisle better people; whether Catholic or non Catholic makes no difference.

    First: say hello to the apostle Peter.

    2Pet 1:2 . . Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

    Now please; listen to some of Peter's knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

    1Pet 1:14-16. . As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; because it is written: You shall be holy, for I am holy.

    1Pet 1:17-18 . . And if you address as "Father" the one who impartially judges according to each man's work, conduct yourselves in reverential fear during the time of your stay upon earth

    1Pet 2:21-24 . . For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps . . who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously

    1Pet 1:22b . . See that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently

    1Pet 2:1-3 . .Lay aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking;

    1Pet 2:17a . . Honor all men.

    1Pet 3:8b-9 . . Having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous; not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing.

    1Pet 3:10-11 . . Let him who means to love life and see good days refrain his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking guile. And let him turn away from evil and do good; let him seek peace and pursue it.

    2Pet 1:5-7 . . Make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love.

    I should think it goes without saying that Peter's knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord is quite useless for the purpose of obtaining grace and peace in abundance unless it's put into practice.

    Jas 1:22-25 . . Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it-- he will be blessed in what he does. (cf. Matt 7:24-27)
    _

  • #2
    Originally posted by Od:hgd View Post
    .
    I was baptized an infant into the Roman Catholic Church in 1944. When old enough, my mom put me into Catechism where, in time. I managed to complete First Holy Communion and Confirmation. Our church attendance on Sunday was fairly regular. We didn't always make it, but most of the time did.

    The liturgy incorporated homilies based upon the apostle Peter's epistles; which I sort of let go in one ear and out the other. It wasn't till years later when I caught on that Peter spoke for Christ, and that non compliance with Peter's instructions is all the same as non compliance with Christ's; it's a domino effect all the way to the top.

    Luke 10:16 . .Whoever listens to you; listens to me. Whoever rejects you; rejects me. And whoever rejects me; rejects the one who sent me.
    Luke 10 has nothing to do with Peter. And Peter may have been a spokesperson for the other disciples but Jesus? Where do you get this idea? Luke 10 Jesus sends out the 70. Peters name isn't even mentioned in Luke 10. More eisegesis.

    Paul's epistles have much to say about one's personal conduct, and Peter's do too; in point of fact: quite much. I've included a few of his instructions in this post which, if complied with, will make any Christian on either side of aisle better people; whether Catholic or non Catholic makes no difference.

    First: say hello to the apostle Peter.

    2Pet 1:2 . . Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

    Now please; listen to some of Peter's knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

    1Pet 1:14-16. . As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; because it is written: You shall be holy, for I am holy.

    1Pet 1:17-18 . . And if you address as "Father" the one who impartially judges according to each man's work, conduct yourselves in reverential fear during the time of your stay upon earth

    1Pet 2:21-24 . . For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps . . who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously

    1Pet 1:22b . . See that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently

    1Pet 2:1-3 . .Lay aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking;

    1Pet 2:17a . . Honor all men.

    1Pet 3:8b-9 . . Having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous; not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing.

    1Pet 3:10-11 . . Let him who means to love life and see good days refrain his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking guile. And let him turn away from evil and do good; let him seek peace and pursue it.

    2Pet 1:5-7 . . Make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love.

    I should think it goes without saying that Peter's knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord is quite useless for the purpose of obtaining grace and peace in abundance unless it's put into practice.

    Jas 1:22-25 . . Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it-- he will be blessed in what he does. (cf. Matt 7:24-27)
    _
    Is catholicism all about obtaining grace and peace? I think the gospel goes a bit deeper than that doesn't it? You do know the gospel yes?
    Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Od:hgd View Post
      .
      I was baptized an infant into the Roman Catholic Church in 1944. When old enough, my mom put me into Catechism where, in time. I managed to complete First Holy Communion and Confirmation. Our church attendance on Sunday was fairly regular. We didn't always make it, but most of the time did.

      The liturgy incorporated homilies based upon the apostle Peter's epistles; which I sort of let go in one ear and out the other. It wasn't till years later when I caught on that Peter spoke for Christ, and that non compliance with Peter's instructions is all the same as non compliance with Christ's; it's a domino effect all the way to the top.

      Luke 10:16 . .Whoever listens to you; listens to me. Whoever rejects you; rejects me. And whoever rejects me; rejects the one who sent me.

      Paul's epistles have much to say about one's personal conduct, and Peter's do too; in point of fact: quite much. I've included a few of his instructions in this post which, if complied with, will make any Christian on either side of aisle better people; whether Catholic or non Catholic makes no difference.

      First: say hello to the apostle Peter.

      2Pet 1:2 . . Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

      Now please; listen to some of Peter's knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

      1Pet 1:14-16. . As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; because it is written: You shall be holy, for I am holy.

      1Pet 1:17-18 . . And if you address as "Father" the one who impartially judges according to each man's work, conduct yourselves in reverential fear during the time of your stay upon earth

      1Pet 2:21-24 . . For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps . . who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously

      1Pet 1:22b . . See that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently

      1Pet 2:1-3 . .Lay aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking;

      1Pet 2:17a . . Honor all men.

      1Pet 3:8b-9 . . Having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous; not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing.

      1Pet 3:10-11 . . Let him who means to love life and see good days refrain his tongue from evil and his lips from speaking guile. And let him turn away from evil and do good; let him seek peace and pursue it.

      2Pet 1:5-7 . . Make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love.

      I should think it goes without saying that Peter's knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord is quite useless for the purpose of obtaining grace and peace in abundance unless it's put into practice.

      Jas 1:22-25 . . Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it-- he will be blessed in what he does. (cf. Matt 7:24-27)
      _
      don't the writings of John or Paul say nearly the identical things?
      One of the ekklēsia

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Od:hgd View Post
        [FONT=verdana].
        I was baptized an infant into the Roman Catholic Church in 1944. ...]
        How did you jump from Peter's inspired epistles to Rome's uninspired Tradition?
        1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

        Comment


        • #5
          .
          Just imagine the crushing chagrin that numbers of Catholics undergo who all their lives defended Peter's supremacy only to end up in hell for failing to comply with his epistles.
          _

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Od:hgd View Post
            .
            Just imagine the crushing chagrin that numbers of Catholics undergo who all their lives defended Peter's supremacy only to end up in hell for failing to comply with his epistles.
            _
            Looks like I may have misunderstood your OP.
            1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Od:hgd View Post
              .
              Just imagine the crushing chagrin that numbers of Catholics undergo who all their lives defended Peter's supremacy only to end up in hell for failing to comply with his epistles.
              _
              Where are we ever told to comply with epistles?

              2 Thess 1:8-9
              8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 And these will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, NASB

              People go to hell for rejecting Jesus and His gospel, not from failing to comply with an epistle.

              Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

              Comment


              • #8
                .
                According to the apostle Peter, God does not practice favoritism.

                1Pet 1:17 . . The Father, who judges each man's work impartially,

                If Peter knew what he was talking about when he wrote that verse, then Catholics are not God's special pets, no; they are in just as much, if not more, danger of ending up in hell as all the rest of the world.

                According to Luke 10:16, the apostle Peter's words are Christ's. Therefore, failure to comply with Peter's epistles is all the same as failure to comply with Christ's words, and Bible-trained Catholics are likely to be aware of what he said about that.

                Matt 7:26-27 . . And everyone who hears these words of mine, and does not act upon them, will be like a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand. And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and burst against that house; and it fell, and great was its fall.

                The word "everyone" in that passage allows for neither exemptions nor exceptions; so I do not recommend relying upon the Catholic label for protection.

                John 3:36 . . He who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.
                _

                Comment


                • #9
                  .
                  1Pet 2:1 . .Lay aside all malice

                  The Greek word for "malice" is kakia (kak-ee'-ah) which basically refers to badness, i.e. depravity, malignity, and trouble.

                  Malignity commonly describes aggressive cancers, which tend to spread and produce death or deterioration, viz: malignant people are toxic, viz: poisonous.

                  There are at least seven types of toxic people out there.

                  1_The Conversational Narcissist

                  Have you ever been talking to someone who keeps interrupting you? Maybe I should revise that sentence: have you ever been trying to talk to someone who won't let you get a word in? Conversational narcissists LOVE to talk about themselves-- or just hear themselves talk. They don't ask you any questions, they don't wait for your responses and they won't shut up. In a relationship, these people will end up being completely self-centered and never be attentive to your needs.

                  2_The Straight Jacket

                  The straight jacket is someone who wants to control everything and everyone around them. They want to be in charge of what you do, what you say, and even what you think. You know the person I am talking about-- they freak out when you disagree with them and won't stop trying to convince you that they are right and you should do what they say. In a relationship, this person will give you no breathing room and constantly will nag you until you are in complete alignment with them. Be careful, these people will go after your emotional, conversational and mental freedom until you have nothing left.

                  3_The Emotional Moocher

                  An emotional moocher also is known as a spiritual vampire because they tend to suction the positivity out of you or bleed you emotionally dry. These are the kinds of people who always have something sad, negative or pessimistic to say. In conversations and relationships, they never can see the positive and tend to bring everyone down with them; they only have bad things to say. (These folk tend to be perpetual fault-finders, i.e. they have a natural talent for tearing people down instead of building them up.)

                  4_The Drama Magnet

                  Some toxic people are magnets for drama. Something always is wrong. Always. And, of course, once a problem is solved, another one emerges. And they only want your empathy, sympathy and support-- but not your advice! You offer help and solutions, but they never seem to want to fix anything. Instead, they complain and complain. In a relationship, drama magnets are victims and thrive in a crisis because it makes them feel important. If someone is a beacon for adversity, watch out, you might one day become part of the drama.

                  5_The JJ

                  A JJ is a jealous/judgmental person. Jealous people are incredibly toxic because they have so much internal self-hate that they can't be happy for anyone around them. And typically, their jealousy comes out as judgment, criticism or gossip. According to them, everyone else is awful, uncool or lacking in some way.

                  6_The Fibber

                  Liars, fibbers, exaggerators…: it's exhausting to have a toxic deceiver in your life. Whether they tell little falsehoods or major lies, it's impossible to trust a liar in a relationship. Dishonesty drains us because we constantly are doubting their words.

                  7_The Tank

                  Tanks are intolerant. They crush everything in their path. A tank is always right, doesn't take anyone else's feelings or ideas into account, and constantly puts themselves first. In a relationship, tanks are incredibly arrogant and see their personal opinions as facts. This is because they often think they are the smartest person in the room. So, they see every conversation and person as a challenge that must be won over. They rarely see others as equals.

                  Thanx To: https://www.scienceofpeople.com/toxic-people/


                  NOTE: Peter's instructions don't say to avoid malice, they say lay malice aside, i.e. get rid of it; viz: malicious Christians are under orders to reform.
                  _

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Od:hgd View Post
                    .
                    1Pet 2:1 . .Lay aside all malice
                    ...
                    Peter's instructions don't say to avoid malice, they say lay malice aside, i.e. get rid of it; viz: malicious Christians are under orders to reform.
                    _
                    You think RCC will ever heed Peter's words and repent?
                    1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      .
                      I started this thread because many of the Catholics I encounter online are quick to mount a defense of Peter's supremacy while failing to pay suitable attention to his knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. Consequently, their forum behavior is too often militant and unpleasant

                      Peter's Christianity is a very practical religion. It not only brings sinners into a right relationship with their creator, but it also makes them better people; viz: makes them more civil and humane.

                      1Pet 2:1-3 . .Lay aside all deceit (a.k.a. guile, cunning, and duplicity)

                      The Greek word for "deceit" is dolos (dol'-os) which basically refers to a decoy, which Webster's defines as someone or something used to lure or lead another into a trap.

                      Decoys can also be used as diversions, e.g. red herrings.

                      Dolos also refers to trickery; defined by Webster's as the practice of crafty underhanded ingenuity to deceive or cheat, for example Gen 3:1.

                      A very common form of deceit is something called dissembling; which basically means to conceal one's true feelings with pretense. I think it's pretty safe to say that everybody at one time or another practices dissembling; it's pretty much a natural propensity.

                      Peter's instructions don't say to avoid deceit, they say to lay it aside; viz: stop it.
                      _

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        .
                        The seven examples of malice listed in post No.9 are pretty good, but I would certainly include spite were it my list. Webster's defines it as petty ill will or hatred with the disposition to irritate, annoy, or thwart; i.e. just plain meanness.

                        A companion to spite is persecution; from the Greek word dioko (dee-o'-ko) which means to pursue; i.e. to hound, to harass. In other words; a persecuting personality is one whose mission in life is to ruin somebody's day at every opportunity; and they are pretty good at finding ways to do it.

                        Heaven is described in the Bible as a place of peace. I think it goes without saying that malicious people cannot be allowed to go there because they would soon turn heaven into a hellish world like they've made the Earth.
                        _

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          .
                          1Pet 2:1 . . Lay aside all hypocrisy.

                          The Greek word for "hypocrisy" is hupokrisis hoop-ok'-ree-sis) which is a mite ambiguous. It basically refers to acting under a feigned part.

                          Not all hypocrisy is bad; quite a few people earn an honest living by accepting parts in movies and plays. That we can live with.

                          But hypocrisy in religion is insufferable; for example Mark 12:13-15, which reads like this:

                          "Later they sent some of the Pharisees and Herodians to Jesus to catch him in his words. They came to him and said: Teacher, we know you are a man of integrity. You aren't swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are; but you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not? Should we pay or shouldn't we? But Jesus knew their hypocrisy."

                          Their inquiry was sensible and practical; but it was based upon a hidden agenda. They didn't care one whit about the taxes; they were only looking for a legitimate excuse to have Jesus arrested and put away where he could no longer influence public opinion.

                          Hypocrisy is also exemplified in double standards, for example Luke 6:41-42 and Matt 23:2-4

                          "And why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother: Brother, let me take out the speck that is in your eye, when you yourself do not see the log that is in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take out the speck that is in your brother's eye."

                          "The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things, and do not do them. And they tie up heavy loads, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger."
                          _

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            .
                            1Pet 2:1 . . Lay aside all envy

                            Webster's defines envy as painful or resentful awareness of an advantage enjoyed by another, coupled with a desire to possess the same advantage

                            There are musicians that I greatly admire for their talent and their creativity. But I don't hate them for it; no, I truly love their work, i.e. I'm a fan rather than a rival. For example; famed sessions musician Carol Kaye can lay down smooth jazz lines on an electric bass using nothing more than a flat guitar pick. I wish I could do what Carol does, and I would sincerely like for her to continue playing and teaching forever.

                            But when admiration is mixed with pain and resentment, it can become ugly and extremely dangerous.

                            For example, it was envy that motivated Cain to murder his kid brother, and it was envy that motivated Joseph's brothers to sell him into slavery, and it was envy that motivated Jesus' opponents to have him arrested and put to death.

                            People prone to envy share a very common denominator: they simply must be either equal to, or better than, others. It's that simple. And if they cannot be equal to, or better than others, then nothing would make them happier than to see those others failed, maimed, silenced, disfigured, dishonored, disgraced, humiliated, handicapped for life and/or deceased.
                            _

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                            • #15
                              .
                              1Pet 2:1. .Lay aside all evil speaking;

                              The Greek word for "evil speaking" is katalalia (kat-al-al-ee'-ah) which basically means defamation; defined by Webster's as the act of communicating false statements about a person that injures their reputation.

                              Talking about someone behind their back counts as defamation only when the statements are untrue; especially if the statements are deliberately untrue and calculated to assassinate someone's character and/or question their good name.


                              NOTE: "As newborn infants, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby." (1Pet 2:2)

                              When Christians neglect to study Peter's epistles to learn what is, and what is not, appropriate behavior for Christ's followers, they are certain to end up stunting their spiritual growth; and quite naturally retain and practice all five of the ugly behaviors listed in my last few posts; viz: malice, deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and evil speaking.
                              _
                              Last edited by Od:hgd; 10-14-19, 11:34 AM.

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