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Is Submission to Rome Illogical?

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  • Is Submission to Rome Illogical?

    Christians believe that submission to Roman authority is not only unbiblical, but it's also illogical. What say the participants in this forum?
    RC's do know God, but the Bible indicates that it is a knowledge in condemnation, a knowledge enabling them to know things about themselves and the world around them, even though they suppress the truth of God which makes such knowledge possible.

  • #2
    yes, it's both of those.
    "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

    The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
      Christians believe that submission to Roman authority is not only unbiblical, but it's also illogical. What say the participants in this forum?
      what has been declared a an infallible truth: is in fact, a lie:

      "it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."
      One of the ekklēsia

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
        Christians believe that submission to Roman authority is not only unbiblical, but it's also illogical. What say the participants in this forum?
        We are to follow those God has placed as shepherds but when they teach anything contrary to His word we are under no obligation to follow them. The papacy is a false office found nowhere in the bible. There is no human head of the entire church.
        Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
          Christians believe that submission to Roman authority is not only unbiblical, but it's also illogical. What say the participants in this forum?
          It's the first step to a paganistic religion.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
            Christians believe that submission to Roman authority is not only unbiblical, but it's also illogical. What say the participants in this forum?
            Can't serve two masters.
            1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
              Christians believe that submission to Roman authority is not only unbiblical, but it's also illogical. What say the participants in this forum?
              I'd say protestants have no understanding of the Pharisees and the Seat of Moses and how Jesus used this set up the New Seat of Moses. And protestants probably don't know anything about Isaiah 22:22 too.

              More info:
              Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Papacy (short video) - By Dr Brant Pitre
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j30c6nG8o2w

              Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Papacy (full video) - By Dr Brant Pitre
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl3pD4l0K5U

              Peter, the Rock, the Keys, and the Chair - By Steve Ray
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faIB-sOBDKk


              Comment


              • #8
                I'd say protestants don't understand the Pharisees and the Seat of Moses and how Jesus used this to set up the New Seat of Moses. And protestants probably don't know anything about Isaiah 22:22 too.

                For more info, you can watch the following videos on YouTube.
                (Sorry, I don't think I'm allowed to give you links.)
                Search for "Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Papacy - by Dr. Brant Pitre" by "rfsaguin" (it's a short video).
                Search for "The Jewish Roots of the Papacy - Dr. Brant Pitre - Deep in History" by "The Coming Home Network International" (it's a full video).
                Search for "Peter, the Rock, the Keys, and the Chair - Steve Ray" by "The Coming Home Network International".

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by poster2262 View Post
                  I'd say protestants don't understand the Pharisees and the Seat of Moses and how Jesus used this to set up the New Seat of Moses. And protestants probably don't know anything about Isaiah 22:22 too.

                  For more info, you can watch the following videos on YouTube.
                  (Sorry, I don't think I'm allowed to give you links.)
                  Search for "Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Papacy - by Dr. Brant Pitre" by "rfsaguin" (it's a short video).
                  Search for "The Jewish Roots of the Papacy - Dr. Brant Pitre - Deep in History" by "The Coming Home Network International" (it's a full video).
                  Search for "Peter, the Rock, the Keys, and the Chair - Steve Ray" by "The Coming Home Network International".
                  oh but we do understand the hypocritical brood of vipers children of the devil (Matthew 23; John 8)
                  and we do understand whether it is an angel or Apostle we are to test all things in Scripture (Acts 17, 1stThessalonians 5, Galatians1)

                  and we know this is a lie
                  "it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff."
                  One of the ekklēsia

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by poster2262 View Post
                    I'd say protestants don't understand the Pharisees and the Seat of Moses and how Jesus used this to set up the New Seat of Moses. And protestants probably don't know anything about Isaiah 22:22 too.

                    For more info, you can watch the following videos on YouTube.
                    (Sorry, I don't think I'm allowed to give you links.)
                    Search for "Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Papacy - by Dr. Brant Pitre" by "rfsaguin" (it's a short video).
                    Search for "The Jewish Roots of the Papacy - Dr. Brant Pitre - Deep in History" by "The Coming Home Network International" (it's a full video).
                    Search for "Peter, the Rock, the Keys, and the Chair - Steve Ray" by "The Coming Home Network International".
                    all you have are those who serve the RCC, not those who serve God.

                    "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                    The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by poster2262 View Post
                      I'd say protestants don't understand the Pharisees and the Seat of Moses and how Jesus used this to set up the New Seat of Moses.
                      For more info, you can watch the following videos on YouTube.
                      (Sorry, I don't think I'm allowed to give you links.)
                      Search for "Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Papacy - by Dr. Brant Pitre" by "rfsaguin" (it's a short video).
                      Search for "The Jewish Roots of the Papacy - Dr. Brant Pitre - Deep in History" by "The Coming Home Network International" (it's a full video).
                      Search for "Peter, the Rock, the Keys, and the Chair - Steve Ray" by "The Coming Home Network International".
                      Ummm; how about watching God's inspired word? Nothing about clothed in scarlet and purple, bowing and kissing his feet in complete submission.

                      ... And protestants probably don't know anything about Isaiah 22:22 too.
                      Isa 22:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:

                      1Peter 1:18,19 Redeemed ... with the precious blood of Christ

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nondenom40 View Post

                        We are to follow those God has placed as shepherds but when they teach anything contrary to His word we are under no obligation to follow them. The papacy is a false office found nowhere in the bible. There is no human head of the entire church.
                        I agree. When a "church" baptizes an infant into their "church" as does the Church of Roman Catholic-ism, and thereby makes the decision for that innocent, helpless human being to submit him or herself, for their lifetime, to the self-given authority of the sect of Roman Catholic-ism, then that "church" is not of Christ Jesus, and that person has NO obligation whatsoever to submit anything to the Church of Rome.
                        RC's do know God, but the Bible indicates that it is a knowledge in condemnation, a knowledge enabling them to know things about themselves and the world around them, even though they suppress the truth of God which makes such knowledge possible.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Raynebeau View Post
                          Christians believe that submission to Roman authority is not only unbiblical, but it's also illogical. What say the participants in this forum?
                          Most Christians are Catholic.

                          Catholic authority does not come from scriptures.. It is the body of Christ and authority comes directly from God. The scriptures were written afterwards.

                          The reason the Catholic does communion is because it came out of Jesus' mouth not because it was written down later.

                          As far as someone disagreeing with Catholic teaching it is perfectly acceptable even honorable as long as you are following your God given good conscience.

                          Peer pressure, fear or terrorism is unacceptable motives to follow catholic teaching. We want the Christian to take authority directly from God and they do so by following their conscience.

                          1777 Moral conscience,48 present at the heart of the person, enjoins him at the appropriate moment to do good and to avoid evil. It also judges particular choices, approving those that are good and denouncing those that are evil.49 It bears witness to the authority of truth in reference to the supreme Good to which the human person is drawn, and it welcomes the commandments. When he listens to his conscience, the prudent man can hear God speaking.

                          1782 Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions. "He must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience. Nor must he be prevented from acting according to his conscience, especially in religious matters."53

                          So as long as you are not lying to yourself rejecting catholic authority is just fine.


                          Now there is plenty of opposition against catholic who would swear the only means by which anyone can be save, converted and repent is by the direct intervention of God. The IDEA taught is that there is nothing I can do to convince you of what is right nor is there anything YOU can do to convince you what is right.

                          Now we are talking about what is LOGICAL and ILLOGICAL. If I believed your teachings there is absolutely no way I could ever get upset with the current beliefs, attitude , or understanding of a Catholic. I would never waste my time debating or criticizing a catholic, because then I am essentially saying I have to change his mind because I don't believe its on God to do it.

                          Why aren't these threads full of prayers asking God to save Catholics? Remember he can't nor would have the motivation and want, unless it is given by God.

                          In short if you believe only GOD can save a catholic why don't people act like that is the case?

                          Shoe is on the other foot. I wouldn't be upset with any of you, Hang in there I'm begging God on your behalf.


                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by poster2262 View Post

                            I'd say protestants have no understanding of the Pharisees and the Seat of Moses and how Jesus used this set up the New Seat of Moses. And protestants probably don't know anything about Isaiah 22:22 too.

                            More info:
                            Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Papacy (short video) - By Dr Brant Pitre
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j30c6nG8o2w

                            Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Papacy (full video) - By Dr Brant Pitre
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xl3pD4l0K5U

                            Peter, the Rock, the Keys, and the Chair - By Steve Ray
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faIB-sOBDKk

                            So then, as a Roman Catholic, you don't use the God-given Holy Scriptures, inspired by the Holy Spirit, as the standard by which to judge the claims of Rome. Instead you choose to believe those who post preposterous notions with absolutely no authority in spiritual matters, on youtube. Yep! It figures!
                            RC's do know God, but the Bible indicates that it is a knowledge in condemnation, a knowledge enabling them to know things about themselves and the world around them, even though they suppress the truth of God which makes such knowledge possible.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by utilyan View Post

                              Most Christians are Catholic.
                              no, they aren't. even with all of my catholic family and friends, I haven't yet met a catholic who is a Christian.


                              Catholic authority does not come from scriptures.. It is the body of Christ and authority comes directly from God. The scriptures were written afterwards.
                              you're right on that - it doesn't, it isn't found in His word.

                              the RCC isn't the body of Christ, only those who are born again are part of His body.

                              no, there weren't any catholics in NT time.

                              The reason the Catholic does communion is because it came out of Jesus' mouth not because it was written down later.
                              catholics don't understand the word of Christ. if they did they wouldn't be catholics.

                              As far as someone disagreeing with Catholic teaching it is perfectly acceptable even honorable as long as you are following your God given good conscience.
                              where was that teaching when I was in catholic schools? nowhere. when did they decide that?

                              Peer pressure, fear or terrorism is unacceptable motives to follow catholic teaching. We want the Christian to take authority directly from God and they do so by following their conscience.
                              tell that to all of those people your leaders forced to become catholic or die...

                              why when catholics don't ? the RCC men are the authority to catholics.

                              1777 Moral conscience,48 present at the heart of the person, enjoins him at the appropriate moment to do good and to avoid evil. It also judges particular choices, approving those that are good and denouncing those that are evil.49 It bears witness to the authority of truth in reference to the supreme Good to which the human person is drawn, and it welcomes the commandments. When he listens to his conscience, the prudent man can hear God speaking.
                              not if he/she isn't born again.

                              1782 Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions. "He must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience. Nor must he be prevented from acting according to his conscience, especially in religious matters."53
                              So as long as you are not lying to yourself rejecting catholic authority is just fine.
                              once again when did the RCC teach that? wasn't taught when I was catholic.

                              Now there is plenty of opposition against catholic who would swear the only means by which anyone can be save, converted and repent is by the direct intervention of God. The IDEA taught is that there is nothing I can do to convince you of what is right nor is there anything YOU can do to convince you what is right.
                              yes, that's the way it is - all thru-out scripture. it's just not taught by the RCC. It doesn't teach the truth of scripture.

                              Now we are talking about what is LOGICAL and ILLOGICAL. If I believed your teachings there is absolutely no way I could ever get upset with the current beliefs, attitude , or understanding of a Catholic. I would never waste my time debating or criticizing a catholic, because then I am essentially saying I have to change his mind because I don't believe its on God to do it.
                              if you didn't, you wouldn't believe as believers do. why do you think the apostles were out there running around to different cities and groups teaching His word?

                              that's how catholics view it, but that isn't the way it is. we don't change your mind, we just tell the truth as found in His word.

                              Why aren't these threads full of prayers asking God to save Catholics? Remember he can't nor would have the motivation and want, unless it is given by God.
                              they are, they just aren't all in print. some have been posted here.

                              In short if you believe only GOD can save a catholic why don't people act like that is the case?

                              Shoe is on the other foot. I wouldn't be upset with any of you, Hang in there I'm begging God on your behalf.
                              why again did He send out the apostles and disciples to teach His word?


                              "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

                              The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

                              Comment

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