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  • Interpretation of scripture

    85 "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone. Its authority in this matter is exercised in the name of Jesus Christ." This means that the task of interpretation has been entrusted to the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome.
    The nCCs, however, tell us that scripture alone is the final authority and that no one has been entrusted with the task of giving an authentic interpretation of scripture.

    On certain doctrinal issues, however, the nCCs settle the issue not with the actual words of scripture but an interpretation of scripture.

    So if an issue is settled by an interpretation of scripture and not with the actual words of scripture then how is scripture alone the final authority?

    If an issue settled by an interpretation of scripture then aren't the nCCs guilty of violating their own rule?
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." Jim Elliot

    "There is no pit so deep that God's love is not deeper still." Betsy ten Boom

    "God in His deepest mystery is not a solitude, but a family, since He has in Himself fatherhood, sonship, and the essence of the family, which is love." John Paul II

    ’Then Mary said, ‘Here am I, the servant of the Lord; let it be with me according to your word.’ One of the greatest responses in all of scripture.

  • #2
    Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post

    The nCCs, however, tell us that scripture alone is the final authority and that no one has been entrusted with the task of giving an authentic interpretation of scripture.

    On certain doctrinal issues, however, the nCCs settle the issue not with the actual words of scripture but an interpretation of scripture.

    So if an issue is settled by an interpretation of scripture and not with the actual words of scripture then how is scripture alone the final authority?

    If an issue settled by an interpretation of scripture then aren't the nCCs guilty of violating their own rule?
    The Lord Jesus said that God's word or the living teaching office of the Roman Catholic Church is true? (Jn 17:17)

    The Holy Spirit moved the Bible writers or the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome in such a way that the words they wrote were accurate, without mistake, without error, exactly the words that God wanted them to write? (2 Pet 1:21; 2 Sam 23:1-2)

    The spiritual person recognizes that the Scriptures or the Catechism/writings of the ECF's/papal bulls are the very words of God? (1 Thess 2:13; 1 Cor 14:37)

    If any man will do the will of the Father or will look to the church of Rome, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God? (Jn 7:17)
    Let thy mercies come also unto me, O LORD, even thy salvation, according to thy word. So shall I have wherewith to answer him that reproacheth me: for I trust in thy word. (Ps. 119:41-42)

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by boldirishlass View Post

      The Lord Jesus said that God's word or the living teaching office of the Roman Catholic Church is true? (Jn 17:17)

      The Holy Spirit moved the Bible writers or the bishops in communion with the successor of Peter, the Bishop of Rome in such a way that the words they wrote were accurate, without mistake, without error, exactly the words that God wanted them to write? (2 Pet 1:21; 2 Sam 23:1-2)

      The spiritual person recognizes that the Scriptures or the Catechism/writings of the ECF's/papal bulls are the very words of God? (1 Thess 2:13; 1 Cor 14:37)

      If any man will do the will of the Father or will look to the church of Rome, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God? (Jn 7:17)
      Is the nCCs interpretation of scripture the final authority?
      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." Jim Elliot

      "There is no pit so deep that God's love is not deeper still." Betsy ten Boom

      "God in His deepest mystery is not a solitude, but a family, since He has in Himself fatherhood, sonship, and the essence of the family, which is love." John Paul II

      ’Then Mary said, ‘Here am I, the servant of the Lord; let it be with me according to your word.’ One of the greatest responses in all of scripture.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post
        So if an issue is settled by an interpretation of scripture and not with the actual words of scripture then how is scripture alone the final authority?

        That's the "Catch" in the Sola Scriptura paradigm. OF course, EVERYBODY - Catholcs and non-Catholics alike, takes their "Stand" on their "INTERPRETATION" of the Scriptures.

        And, of course, BOTH pontificate that they're NOT doing that, even though they are.

        Religion - you GOTTA LOVE IT!!!!

        Comment


        • #5
          [QUOTE=Bob Carabbio;n6146865]
          Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post
          So if an issue is settled by an interpretation of scripture and not with the actual words of scripture then how is scripture alone the final authority?

          That's the "Catch" in the Sola Scriptura paradigm. OF course, EVERYBODY - Catholcs and non-Catholics alike, takes their "Stand" on their "INTERPRETATION" of the Scriptures.

          And, of course, BOTH pontificate that they're NOT doing that, even though they are.

          Religion - you GOTTA LOVE IT!!!!
          So how can a Christian know what is the truth?
          "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." Jim Elliot

          "There is no pit so deep that God's love is not deeper still." Betsy ten Boom

          "God in His deepest mystery is not a solitude, but a family, since He has in Himself fatherhood, sonship, and the essence of the family, which is love." John Paul II

          ’Then Mary said, ‘Here am I, the servant of the Lord; let it be with me according to your word.’ One of the greatest responses in all of scripture.

          Comment


          • #6
            [QUOTE=rldlolbeding;n6146878]
            Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

            So how can a Christian know what is the truth?
            Simple: The WRITTEN WORD + The Guidance of the Holy Spirit, Who guides us into all truth. John 14:26 , 1 John 2:27.

            Comment


            • #7
              [QUOTE=Bob Carabbio;n6146905]
              Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post

              Simple: The WRITTEN WORD + The Guidance of the Holy Spirit, Who guides us into all truth. John 14:26 , 1 John 2:27.
              The Holy Spirit guides us into all the truth. Who is "us"?
              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." Jim Elliot

              "There is no pit so deep that God's love is not deeper still." Betsy ten Boom

              "God in His deepest mystery is not a solitude, but a family, since He has in Himself fatherhood, sonship, and the essence of the family, which is love." John Paul II

              ’Then Mary said, ‘Here am I, the servant of the Lord; let it be with me according to your word.’ One of the greatest responses in all of scripture.

              Comment


              • #8
                [QUOTE=rldlolbeding;n6146917]
                Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                The Holy Spirit guides us into all the truth. Who is "us"?
                Born Again Christians, IN WHOM the Holy Spirit dwells.

                Next Question??

                Comment


                • #9
                  [QUOTE=Bob Carabbio;n6146925]
                  Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post

                  Born Again Christians, IN WHOM the Holy Spirit dwells.

                  Next Question??
                  But "born again" Christians in whom the Holy Spirit dwells don't agree.
                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." Jim Elliot

                  "There is no pit so deep that God's love is not deeper still." Betsy ten Boom

                  "God in His deepest mystery is not a solitude, but a family, since He has in Himself fatherhood, sonship, and the essence of the family, which is love." John Paul II

                  ’Then Mary said, ‘Here am I, the servant of the Lord; let it be with me according to your word.’ One of the greatest responses in all of scripture.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    [QUOTE=rldlolbeding;n6146944]
                    Originally posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

                    But "born again" Christians in whom the Holy Spirit dwells don't agree.
                    That HE's THERE doesn't mean everybody listens to Him, and there are MANY ASPECTS of theology that simply don't matter one way or another. AND, just like Catholics, many non-Catholics don't bother with their Bibles.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I find this interesting. Jesus had an exchange with a lawyer. Here is what the scripture says:


                      And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
                      26 He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?"
                      27 So he answered and said, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbor as yourself.'"
                      28 And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live."
                      29 But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"
                      (Luke 10:25-29 NKJV)

                      1. Jesus asks the arttorney what is Written in the law (Torah).

                      2. The attorney answers

                      3. Jesus says he answered correctly so it obvious the lawyer knew what the scriptures said and that he could interpret correctly.

                      4. The lawyer than wants to justify himself and asks who is considered his neighbor.

                      5. Jesus gives the answer in a story and ends in verse 37 and asks another question. The lawyer answers correctly saying the neighbor to the man beaten up and robbed was him who showed mercy. Jesus was showing it was mercy and not sacrifice God desired and that the understanding of who was a neighbor could be found in the scriptures and that the lawyer could figure that out from the scriptures.

                      It is the scriptures that are the key and that is why Jesus answered many questions and even rebuked the devil in the desert with the written word of God.

                      We need to do the same. Bob is correct. It is the written word and the leading of the Holy Spirit Who guides us into all truth. Do some Christians "miss it" like the lawyer did initially? Yes. So did the very early church. Read about the seven churches of Revelation, real churches at the time of John. Five of the seven missed stuff. However, look at what Jesus said to the churches. There is your answer.
                      I am just a miserable sinner saved by grace, called according to His purposes, made righteous and holy by faith in Jesus and who can now boldly enter the throne room of heaven itself.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by organgrinder View Post
                        I find this interesting. Jesus had an exchange with a lawyer. Here is what the scripture says:


                        And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"
                        26 He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?"
                        27 So he answered and said, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbor as yourself.'"
                        28 And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live."
                        29 But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"
                        (Luke 10:25-29 NKJV)

                        1. Jesus asks the arttorney what is Written in the law (Torah).

                        2. The attorney answers

                        3. Jesus says he answered correctly so it obvious the lawyer knew what the scriptures said and that he could interpret correctly.

                        4. The lawyer than wants to justify himself and asks who is considered his neighbor.

                        5. Jesus gives the answer in a story and ends in verse 37 and asks another question. The lawyer answers correctly saying the neighbor to the man beaten up and robbed was him who showed mercy. Jesus was showing it was mercy and not sacrifice God desired and that the understanding of who was a neighbor could be found in the scriptures and that the lawyer could figure that out from the scriptures.

                        It is the scriptures that are the key and that is why Jesus answered many questions and even rebuked the devil in the desert with the written word of God.

                        We need to do the same. Bob is correct. It is the written word and the leading of the Holy Spirit Who guides us into all truth. Do some Christians "miss it" like the lawyer did initially? Yes. So did the very early church. Read about the seven churches of Revelation, real churches at the time of John. Five of the seven missed stuff. However, look at what Jesus said to the churches. There is your answer.
                        Jesus didn't always quote scripture. Jesus said in the upper room, "...this is my body....this is my blood of the covenant...". Some of the nCCs say that it is not is body and it is not his blood of the covenant.

                        So what is the truth?
                        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." Jim Elliot

                        "There is no pit so deep that God's love is not deeper still." Betsy ten Boom

                        "God in His deepest mystery is not a solitude, but a family, since He has in Himself fatherhood, sonship, and the essence of the family, which is love." John Paul II

                        ’Then Mary said, ‘Here am I, the servant of the Lord; let it be with me according to your word.’ One of the greatest responses in all of scripture.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post

                          Is the nCCs interpretation of scripture the final authority?
                          From the OP - 85 "The task of giving an authentic interpretation of the Word of God, whether in its written form or in the form of Tradition, has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone.......".

                          First, that's definitely just your opinion. Second, and more importantly, Scripture is the 66 books (more in the rc bible). Can you please tell us where we can find the official, infallible 'authentic interpretation' of the written form of the Word of God (bible) that you claim has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone? That's at least 66 books. According to rc's, your 'church' denomination (rcc) has been around since the time of Christ. That is plenty of time to have given the 'authentic interpretation of the Word of God'...'in its written form' . Since this is 'The task....has been entrusted to the living teaching office of the Church alone.' I would like to read what the rc denomination's 'living teaching office of the Church' 'authentic interpretation of the Word of God' is. Where can I find a copy of the 'authentic interpretation of the Word of God...in written form'? Such an important 'task' surely would not be neglected by the 'church founded by Christ Himself'.

                          Thanks.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post

                            Jesus didn't always quote scripture. Jesus said in the upper room, "...this is my body....this is my blood of the covenant...". Some of the nCCs say that it is not is body and it is not his blood of the covenant.

                            So what is the truth?
                            The truth is Jesus. And you are correct in your example. However, you and the RCC miss the fact He said those words in the midst of the Passover meal. Just as the bitter herbs and other foods were not actual tears of suffering, etc., So neither was the unleavened bread His actual body nor the third cup of wine at the meal representing salvation His actual blood. Jesus as the living Word was Whom we are to feed upon. Jesus changed the meaning of the symbols and foods already in place.

                            So, we rightly divide the written word of God to understand what the scripture says.
                            I am just a miserable sinner saved by grace, called according to His purposes, made righteous and holy by faith in Jesus and who can now boldly enter the throne room of heaven itself.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rldlolbeding View Post

                              So how can a Christian know what is the truth?
                              1 John 2:21 Scripture taken from the New King James Version®. Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson. (emphasis mine)
                              21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

                              (i.e. deception and truth are mutually exclusive; i.e. light vs. darkness)

                              (i.e. The Apostles did not observe the Passover Memorial under the New Covenant in Christ's blood on earth, in practice, on a ("Friday -sixth day of the week"). Why? Christ our Passover was not crucified on a ("Friday -sixth day of the week" - Letter of the law, only, always). The Apostolic faith under the New Covenant in Christ's blood on earth, in practice, was observed on Nisan 14 "according to the Scriptures". (i.e. Jesus > Apostle John (John 4:22-24) > Saint Polycarp > Bishop Polycrates > to all faithful and loving saints in Christ "on earth" - Nisan 14 - Christ our Passover - Spirit of the law, only, always (Matthew 26:2; Numbers 28:16; Mark 8:31; Reference: 1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Key of David illustrations) The Apostolic faithful do not "nullify" the word of God "on earth" - do not "quench" the Spirit "on earth" - and do not "despise" Christ's fulfilled "verbatim" Resurrection prophecies "on earth", "specifically" in this regard)

                              So where did this lie (100% deception) come from? Answer: Commandments of men "on earth" that "nullify" the word of God "on earth" - that "quench" the Spirit "on earth" - and that "despise" Christ's fulfilled "verbatim" Resurrection prophecies "on earth". (i.e. antichrists "on earth") (i.e. Pontifex Maximus Caesar Constantine's (decree - order - epistle) "on earth" to the "unfaithful" (West/East) bishops who obeyed the "private interpretations" of an unbaptized "pagan" god "on earth", after the Council of Nicaea A.D. 325. (i.e. contrary to Holy Scripture and contrary to the will of the Father "on earth" - (Deuteronomy 4:39) (Ephesians 4:4-6))

                              John 4:22-24 Scripture taken from the New King James Version®. Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson. (emphasis mine)
                              22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”


                              The Apostolic faithful follow Jesus (the Way, the Truth, and the Life) and abide in the "doctrine of Christ" (Matthew 16:16) (2 John 1:9)

                              Jesus commands believers in the Father, to worship the Father in spirit and truth.


                              In Christ's service,
                              David Behrens
                              Sola Gloria Dei!
                              Bringing Christian harmony to all the world

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