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One big question about God and His Jerusalem Temple

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  • One big question about God and His Jerusalem Temple

    Q: Did the Holy Spirit of God guide the construction?
    Was the Temple constructed as God ordained?

    1 Chronicles 28:12
    12 He gave him the plans of all that the Spirit had put in his mind for the courts of the temple of the LORD and all the surrounding rooms, for the treasuries of the temple of God and for the treasuries for the dedicated things.

    1 Chronicles 28:19
    19 “All this,” David said, “I have in writing as a result of the LORD’s hand on me, and he enabled me to understand all the details of the plan.”

    Hebrews 8:5
    5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”
    Q: Is God very specific on what takes place in His Temple?
    Is everything about the Temple ordained by God?

    Leviticus 16 and elsewhere
    Q: Did God–Incarnate go into the Temple
    Luke 2:25-32
    And he < Simeon> came in the Spirit into the temple, and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him according to the custom of the Law,
    Mark 11:27
    and they came again to Jerusalem. And as He was walking in the temple, the chief priests and the scribes and the elders came to Him
    Luke 22:53
    53 When I was with you daily in the temple, you did not try to seize Me. But this is your hour, and the power of darkness."
    Q: What did God-Incarnate feel about the House of God?
    John 2:17 His disciples remembered that it is written: "Zeal for your house will consume me."
    Q: Did the disciples worship and preach in the Temple, after the resurrection and Pentecost?
    Acts:24:53 and were continually in the temple praising and blessing God. Amen.
    Acts 53:20 "Go, stand in the temple and speak to the people all the words of this life."
    21 And when they heard that, they entered the temple early in the morning and taught. But the high priest and those with him came and called the council together, with all the elders of the children of Israel, and sent to the prison to have them brought.
    Acts 5:42
    42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ.
    -----------------------
    the BIG QUESTION
    In the Temple: immediately before and during the time that God-Incarnate walked the earth and went into the Temple:
    Did God Almighty allow the collection 22 of Temple scrolls consisting of the 39 books of Sacred Hebrew writings to be incomplete and in error?

    iow
    Considering all the STRICT requirement about God's Temple: Did God Almighty allow the the collection of Scrolls to be incomplete and in error in God's House while God the Son stood there.
    One of the ekklēsia

  • #2
    additional info
    around 94 AD; the Jewish historian wrote "Against Apion" as a defense of Judaism

    the text can be found here
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_Apion#Text

    quoting
    For we have not an innumerable multitude of books among us, disagreeing from and contradicting one another, [as the Greeks have],
    but only twenty-two books,
    which contain the records of all the past times;
    which are justly believed to be divine;
    and of them five belong to Moses, which contain his laws and the traditions of the origin of mankind till his death. This interval of time was little short of three thousand years; but as to the time from the death of Moses till the reign of Artaxerxes king of Persia, who reigned after Xerxes,
    the prophets, who were after Moses, wrote down what was done in their times in thirteen books.
    The remaining four books contain hymns to God, and precepts for the conduct of human life.

    It is true, our history hath been written since Artaxerxes very particularly, but hath not been esteemed of the like authority with the former by our forefathers,
    because there hath not been an exact succession of prophets since that time; and how firmly we have given credit to these books of our own nation is evident by what we do; for during so many ages as have already passed, no one has been so bold as either to add any thing to them, to take any thing from them, or to make any change in them;
    but it is become natural to all Jews immediately, and from their very birth, to esteem these books to contain Divine doctrines,
    and to persist in them, and, if occasion be willingly to die for them.
    -end quote


    "Artaxerxes king of Persia" (reigned 465-–425 bc).

    Josephus had the actual Temple scrolls in his possession!!
    He wrote twenty years before Jamnia and over 300 years before the Talmud's Tractate Baba Bathra which is used to support the theory of the three-part development.
    He had the actual Temple scrolls in his possession as a gift from Titus.


    He says there were 22 Scrolls kept in the Temple (see "Against Apion" 1:8, where he mentions 5 books of Moses, 13 Prophets, and 4 Writings).
    This corresponds to the 39 books.
    Following typical Jewish tradition, he recognized Jer. and Lam. as one book,
    as he also did Judges & Ruth, I Sam. & II Sam., I Kings & II Kings, I Chron. & II Chron., and Ezra and Esther.
    The 12 Minor Prophets were also recognized as one book, called "The Book of the Twelve."
    He included Daniel in the Prophets instead of in the Writings,

    Josephus also indicates that there was unbroken succession of prophets from Moses to Malachi, and that the histories written since Malachi were not inspired, because there had been no succession of prophets since the time of Malachi.

    Question:
    Considering all the STRICT requirement about God's Temple: Did God Almighty allow the the collection of Scrolls to be incomplete and in error in God's House while God the Son stood there.
    Last edited by tester; 11-09-19, 01:47 PM.
    One of the ekklēsia

    Comment


    • #3
      I have no disagreement about the temple scrolls. Yes, the Jews were inspired by God but now the Christians are the New people of God. The Bible, instead of the temple scroll, is now the book of the new people of God (Christianity). Are you still following the Jews with their Old Testament only or Christianity with the Bible (Old and New Testament) as canonized by the Christian church?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post
        I have no disagreement about the temple scrolls. Yes, the Jews were inspired by God but now the Christians are the New people of God. The Bible, instead of the temple scroll, is now the book of the new people of God (Christianity). Are you still following the Jews with their Old Testament only or Christianity with the Bible (Old and New Testament) as canonized by the Christian church?
        When did God discard Israel?

        If he had meant to cast you away he would have done so long ago. If he wanted reasons for rejecting you he had reasons from all eternity, for he knew what you would be. No sin in you has been a surprise to him. C.H. Spurgeon

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post
          I have no disagreement about the temple scrolls. Yes, the Jews were inspired by God but now the Christians are the New people of God. The Bible, instead of the temple scroll, is now the book of the new people of God (Christianity). Are you still following the Jews with their Old Testament only or Christianity with the Bible (Old and New Testament) as canonized by the Christian church?
          the question from the OP was:

          the BIG QUESTION
          In the Temple: immediately before and during the time that God-Incarnate walked the earth and went into the Temple:
          Did God Almighty allow the collection 22 of Temple scrolls consisting of the 39 books of Sacred Hebrew writings to be incomplete and in error?

          iow
          Considering all the STRICT requirements about God's Temple: Did God Almighty allow the the collection of Scrolls to be incomplete and in error in God's House while God the Son stood there.

          Yes or No?
          One of the ekklēsia

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Howie View Post
            When did God discard Israel?
            God allowed the Romans to obliterate the Temple, to flatten Jerusalem, and to drive out the unbelieving Jews towards wherever the wind blows.

            It's from that group that you have your Masoretic Text from.

            Comment


            • #7

              Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post
              I have no disagreement about the temple scrolls. Yes, the Jews were inspired by God but now the Christians are the New people of God. The Bible, instead of the temple scroll, is now the book of the new people of God (Christianity). Are you still following the Jews with their Old Testament only or Christianity with the Bible (Old and New Testament) as canonized by the Christian church?
              Originally posted by Howie View Post
              When did God discard Israel?
              good question. wonder how catholics will answer that.

              "I was changed, redeemed, forgiven before the blood was dry.

              The debt I owed was canceled in the twinkling of an eye."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mica View Post


                good question. wonder how catholics will answer that.
                God did not discard Israel. He continues to fulfill his promise about the Jewish people by preserving a remnant of Jewish believers in Christ (Rom11:1–5). Paul says that one day the Jewish people as a nation will return to Christ, and this will be one of the signs of the Second Coming and the resurrection of the dead (Rom11:12, 15).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by tester View Post
                  the question from the OP was:

                  the BIG QUESTION
                  In the Temple: immediately before and during the time that God-Incarnate walked the earth and went into the Temple:
                  Did God Almighty allow the collection 22 of Temple scrolls consisting of the 39 books of Sacred Hebrew writings to be incomplete and in error?

                  iow
                  Considering all the STRICT requirements about God's Temple: Did God Almighty allow the the collection of Scrolls to be incomplete and in error in God's House while God the Son stood there.

                  Yes or No?
                  God did not for the Jews but for the Christians it is not complete because what we , the believers in Christ have, is both the new and old testaments.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

                    God did not for the Jews but for the Christians it is not complete because what we , the believers in Christ have, is both the new and old testaments.
                    During the time God-Incarnate walked the Earth and went into the Temple:
                    were there fairly well-known, God-breathed, Sacred writings NOT included in with the 22 scrolls of 39 books kept in God's Holy Temple?
                    Last edited by tester; 11-10-19, 09:00 AM.
                    One of the ekklēsia

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post

                      God did not for the Jews but for the Christians it is not complete because what we , the believers in Christ have, is both the new and old testaments.
                      The op isn't about the n.t. So why youre doing your best to deflect is beyond me. Why not just answer the question? The question is did the temple scrolls include your apocrypha? Thats really where Tester is going with this. Seems catholics want nothing to do with the question but would rather spin it and make up their own questions.
                      Eph 5:11 And do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them NASB

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post
                        ...Yes, the Jews were inspired by God but now the Christians are the New people of God...
                        Originally posted by UnionofGrace&amp;Nature View Post
                        God allowed the Romans to obliterate the Temple, to flatten Jerusalem, and to drive out the unbelieving Jews towards wherever the wind blows.

                        It's from that group that you have your Masoretic Text from.
                        Originally posted by Howie
                        When did God discard Israel?
                        Your answer is a non sequitur because you don't pay attention to posts.

                        Where has God said the Church has replaced Israel?





                        If he had meant to cast you away he would have done so long ago. If he wanted reasons for rejecting you he had reasons from all eternity, for he knew what you would be. No sin in you has been a surprise to him. C.H. Spurgeon

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mica View Post


                          good question. wonder how catholics will answer that.
                          By make up something untrue.

                          If he had meant to cast you away he would have done so long ago. If he wanted reasons for rejecting you he had reasons from all eternity, for he knew what you would be. No sin in you has been a surprise to him. C.H. Spurgeon

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ramcam2 View Post
                            I have no disagreement about the temple scrolls. Yes, the Jews were inspired by God but now the Christians are the New people of God. The Bible, instead of the temple scroll, is now the book of the new people of God (Christianity). Are you still following the Jews with their Old Testament only or Christianity with the Bible (Old and New Testament) as canonized by the Christian church?
                            Ram, the OT was Gods revelation to the Jews, it is Gods covenant with the Jews ... they are the oracles of God..

                            Jesus made a New Covenant with the church

                            Jerome recognized that and only placed their scripture in the OT when translating..

                            The NT church has no authority over the OT ..
                            Have I now become your enemy because I tell you the truth ? Gal 4:16

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by UnionofGrace&amp;Nature View Post
                              God allowed the Romans to obliterate the Temple, to flatten Jerusalem, and to drive out the unbelieving Jews towards wherever the wind blows.

                              It's from that group that you have your Masoretic Text from.
                              Why was that? You institution needs to take heed of what happened to the Jewish people. However God made promises to them that He has not made to your church and He has never called your evil institution the apple of His eye. He still loves the Jewish people, He still has a plan to bring them back to Him. In fact the number of Jewish people who know Jesus and His salvation is steadily growing.

                              Comment

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