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Had Lucifer not sinned he would have Resurrected Christ from the grave?

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  • Had Lucifer not sinned he would have Resurrected Christ from the grave?

    "Now, priests and rulers, where is the power of your guard? Brave soldiers that have never been afraid of human power are now as captives taken without sword or spear. The face they look upon is not the face of mortal warrior; it is the face of the mightiest of the Lord's host. This messenger is he who fills the position from which Satan fell. It is he who on the hills of Bethlehem proclaimed Christ's birth. The earth trembles at his approach, the hosts of darkness flee, and as he rolls away the stone, heaven seems to come down to the earth. The soldiers see him removing the stone as he would a pebble, and hear him cry, Son of God, come forth; Thy Father calls Thee. They see Jesus come forth from the grave, and hear Him proclaim over the rent sepulcher, 'I am the resurrection, and the life.' As He comes forth in majesty and glory, the angel host bow low in adoration before the Redeemer, and welcome Him with songs of praise." (Ellen White ,The Desire of Ages, 779.3)

    Oddly enough THIS MAKES SENSE that Ellen would say this...
    ...After-all Ellen did classify Lucifer as an archangel.
    ...& She claimed Christ was an archangel.

    No wonder there was such animus in heaven - you had two archangels competing for lofty positions and one of them drew the short straw.




  • #2
    This parallels the blasphemy of the SDA’s ‘Satan is the scapegoat’ teaching.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Albur Tan View Post
      This parallels the blasphemy of the SDA’s ‘Satan is the scapegoat’ teaching.
      AV Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell(G1067 geena).

      We should discuss the life cycle of sin here. This statement indicates a lack of knowledge to GOD's Will towards sin and how it will be destroyed.

      AV Ps 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou [art] with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

      The real spiritual death casts a shadow into the physical reality of this existence.

      AV Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

      In our realm of physical reality, a soul dies twice in the first death("the valley of the shadow of death") physically and the second death("which is the second death") spiritually.

      AV Jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

      First Question(More in later posts): Where does sin "taketh away" to/go when it is confessed to Jesus("Behold the Lamb of God") ???

      It's Okay, to not answer if you don't know.

      Yours in Christ, Michael
      Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
      If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
      Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Pythons View Post
        "Now, priests and rulers, where is the power of your guard? Brave soldiers that have never been afraid of human power are now as captives taken without sword or spear. The face they look upon is not the face of mortal warrior; it is the face of the mightiest of the Lord's host. This messenger is he who fills the position from which Satan fell. It is he who on the hills of Bethlehem proclaimed Christ's birth. The earth trembles at his approach, the hosts of darkness flee, and as he rolls away the stone, heaven seems to come down to the earth. The soldiers see him removing the stone as he would a pebble, and hear him cry, Son of God, come forth; Thy Father calls Thee. They see Jesus come forth from the grave, and hear Him proclaim over the rent sepulcher, 'I am the resurrection, and the life.' As He comes forth in majesty and glory, the angel host bow low in adoration before the Redeemer, and welcome Him with songs of praise." (Ellen White ,The Desire of Ages, 779.3)
        Oddly enough THIS MAKES SENSE that Ellen would say this...
        ...After-all Ellen did classify Lucifer as an archangel.
        ...& She claimed Christ was an archangel.
        No wonder there was such animus in heaven - you had two archangels competing for lofty positions and one of them drew the short straw.
        No discussion starter question. Your fishing for what ???

        Please start us off with a question for direction. Thank you !!!
        My bad. Found your question in the Title.

        "Had Lucifer not sinned he would have Resurrected Christ from the grave?", Trick question alert.

        "Birds of a feather, flock together."

        We have sin, because Lucifer had corrupted himself. So your question assumes that another angel would have assume the role of the leader of sin by self corruption. Who's to say Lucifer would have not followed that leader from the third that fell with sin ???

        Wickedness knows no end in leaders from within our population, so is the same in Heaven ???

        "Had Lucifer not sinned he would have Resurrected Christ from the grave?", If he did not fall, he would have maintained his position next to GOD. Provided another angel lead the rebellion in Heaven, and then on earth.

        Yours in Christ, Michael
        Last edited by SDAchristian; 07-08-18, 06:33 PM.
        Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
        If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
        Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SDAchristian View Post
          AV Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell(G1067 geena).

          We should discuss the life cycle of sin here. This statement indicates a lack of knowledge to GOD's Will towards sin and how it will be destroyed.

          AV Ps 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou [art] with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

          The real spiritual death casts a shadow into the physical reality of this existence.

          AV Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

          In our realm of physical reality, a soul dies twice in the first death("the valley of the shadow of death") physically and the second death("which is the second death") spiritually.

          AV Jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

          First Question(More in later posts): Where does sin "taketh away" to/go when it is confessed to Jesus("Behold the Lamb of God") ???

          It's Okay, to not answer if you don't know.

          Yours in Christ, Michael
          2 Corinthians 5:21 For our sake he made him (Christ Jesus) to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

          The DoA had two goats. One died and paid the price of sin with its innocent (knew no sin) blood. The other had sins confessed (became sin) on it and it removed our sin completely from us, never to be regarded again. No better description of the work of Christ Jesus.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Pythons View Post
            "Now, priests and rulers, where is the power of your guard? Brave soldiers that have never been afraid of human power are now as captives taken without sword or spear. The face they look upon is not the face of mortal warrior; it is the face of the mightiest of the Lord's host. This messenger is he who fills the position from which Satan fell. It is he who on the hills of Bethlehem proclaimed Christ's birth. The earth trembles at his approach, the hosts of darkness flee, and as he rolls away the stone, heaven seems to come down to the earth. The soldiers see him removing the stone as he would a pebble, and hear him cry, Son of God, come forth; Thy Father calls Thee. They see Jesus come forth from the grave, and hear Him proclaim over the rent sepulcher, 'I am the resurrection, and the life.' As He comes forth in majesty and glory, the angel host bow low in adoration before the Redeemer, and welcome Him with songs of praise." (Ellen White ,The Desire of Ages, 779.3)

            Oddly enough THIS MAKES SENSE that Ellen would say this...
            ...After-all Ellen did classify Lucifer as an archangel.
            ...& She claimed Christ was an archangel.

            No wonder there was such animus in heaven - you had two archangels competing for lofty positions and one of them drew the short straw.


            Correction, If Lucifer had not sinned he would have been the angel to bear the message to Jesus that His Father called Him. Jesus would have still resurrected Himself by His own power. Jesus' resurrection was not empowered by Gabriel or Lucifer. No angel could resurrect any person, only God has the power to bring a person back to life.
            So as always EGW was correct.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by KWJ View Post
              2 Corinthians 5:21 For our sake he made him (Christ Jesus) to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
              The DoA had two goats. One died and paid the price of sin with its innocent (knew no sin) blood. The other had sins confessed (became sin) on it and it removed our sin completely from us, never to be regarded again. No better description of the work of Christ Jesus.
              You need to read and understand the Greek Original. There were words added by translators too.

              Please show original DoA quote your memory has directed us to ???

              Yours in Christ, Michael
              Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
              If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
              Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SDAchristian View Post
                You need to read and understand the Greek Original. There were words added by translators too.

                Please show original DoA quote your memory has directed us to ???

                Yours in Christ, Michael
                Here. Are. The. Two. Goats. Of. The. DoA.

                And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering. And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make an atonement for himself, and for his house. And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat. And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the Lord's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering. But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
                Leviticus 16:5-10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...10&version=KJV

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Albur Tan View Post
                  Here. Are. The. Two. Goats. Of. The. DoA.
                  And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering. And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make an atonement for himself, and for his house. And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat. And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the Lord's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering. But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
                  Leviticus 16:5-10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...10&version=KJV
                  AV 1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

                  One goat died to move, or make atonement for the sins of the sanctuary, to the other goat; the other goat died, through death to destroy those sins of the sanctuary on this goat.

                  Note: Sins are always associated with a being with a soul. <<< Are you ready to challenge this, so I can teach another Truth here from scriptures ???

                  AV Jn 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

                  I am going to suggest that those that truly don't know GOD, don't know how sin is moved(physically) and sin is destroyed(spiritually) by GOD through the two deaths.

                  Yours in Christ, Michael
                  Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
                  If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
                  Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SDAchristian View Post
                    AV 1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

                    One goat died to move, or make atonement for the sins of the sanctuary, to the other goat; the other goat died, through death to destroy those sins of the sanctuary on this goat.

                    Note: Sins are always associated with a being with a soul. <<< Are you ready to challenge this, so I can teach another Truth here from scriptures ???

                    AV Jn 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

                    I am going to suggest that those that truly don't know GOD, don't know how sin is moved(physically) and sin is destroyed(spiritually) by GOD through the two deaths.
                    So you DO agree that there were two (2) goats in the one sacrifice on the DOA.


                    .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Albur Tan View Post
                      So you DO agree that there were two (2) goats in the one sacrifice on the DOA.
                      Your confused. Re-Word the question Please.

                      Plus you need to SHOW the DoA reference, that YOU are alluding to, PLEASE ???

                      Yours in Christ, Michael
                      Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
                      If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
                      Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SDAchristian View Post
                        Your confused. Re-Word the question Please.

                        Plus you need to SHOW the DoA reference, that YOU are alluding to, PLEASE ???
                        Please explain what is confusing you about two (2) goats in the sacrifice on the DoA.


                        Here. Are. The. Two. Goats. Of. The. DoA.

                        And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering. And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make an atonement for himself, and for his house. And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat. And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the Lord's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering. But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
                        Leviticus 16:5-10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...10&version=KJV

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Albur Tan View Post
                          Please explain what is confusing you about two (2) goats in the sacrifice on the DoA.
                          Here. Are. The. Two. Goats. Of. The. DoA.
                          And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering. And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make an atonement for himself, and for his house. And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat. And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the Lord's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering. But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.
                          Leviticus 16:5-10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...10&version=KJV
                          Until you show the DoA reference for this, your corrupted memory will be a problem.
                          http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/scapegoat.asp

                          Look here to understand and find your objection, and/or quote.
                          Originally posted by KWJ View Post
                          The DoA had two goats. One died and paid the price of sin with its innocent (knew no sin) blood. The other had sins confessed (became sin) on it and it removed our sin completely from us, never to be regarded again. No better description of the work of Christ Jesus.
                          Do you want to change from DoA to GC now ??? <<< Cut-N-Paste error in understanding the material plagiarize(from KWJ), containing errors.

                          Ready to do some apologetics on KWJ's words, seeing you used them as yours ???

                          I have not changed my objections since July 8th post.

                          At this point, I fully expect the thread to be abandoned by one or more posters, in light of the above evidence.

                          Yours in Christ, Michael
                          Last edited by SDAchristian; 07-11-18, 06:10 PM.
                          Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
                          If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
                          Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SDAchristian View Post
                            Until you show the DoA reference for this, your corrupted memory will be a problem.
                            http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/scapegoat.asp

                            Look here to understand and find your objection, and/or quote. Do you want to change from DoA to GC now ??? <<< Cut-N-Paste error in understanding the material plagiarize(from KWJ), containing errors.

                            Ready to do some apologetics on KWJ's words, seeing you used them as yours ???

                            I have not changed my objections since July 8th post.

                            At this point, I fully expect the thread to be abandoned by one or more posters, in light of the above evidence.
                            OH..... I get it now......

                            You want us to quote something from something Ellen white copied from somebody else.

                            all this time we have been quoting the Bible and what it says about the DoA (Day of Atonement) and all you want to do is talk about what Ellen White has to say.

                            That is the nutjob attitude of Seventh-day Adventism.


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by SDAchristian View Post

                              At this point, I fully expect the thread to be abandoned by one or more posters, in light of the above evidence.
                              let’s talk about what the Bible actually says about the DoA.

                              Comment

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