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Had Lucifer not sinned he would have Resurrected Christ from the grave?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Albur Tan View Post
    OH..... I get it now......
    You want us to quote something from something Ellen white copied from somebody else.
    all this time we have been quoting the Bible and what it says about the DoA (Day of Atonement) and all you want to do is talk about what Ellen White has to say.
    That is the nutjob attitude of Seventh-day Adventism.
    I will admit to reading it as DoA as Desire of Ages, and not DoA as Day of Atonement. Though, I have almost never had apologies from others, when it is the other way around.

    My bad for the wrong POV(Point of View) on DoA acronym. Now, that this clear, let us move past this point.

    Up until this point, it's still a bad reference, because the acronym was not made clear to me.

    I will continue the DoA(Day of Atonement) discussion on the other post.

    Yours in Christ, Michael
    Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
    If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
    Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Albur Tan View Post
      let's talk about what the Bible actually says about the DoA.
      AV Hb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

      You realize these are shadows in types, that we must associate to anti-types.

      I am ready, if you are.

      Yours in Christ, Michael

      Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
      If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
      Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by SDAchristian View Post
        AV Hb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, [that] thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

        You realize these are shadows in types, that we must associate to anti-types.

        I am ready, if you are.

        You do realize that the type and shadow of the goats in the DoA ritual were ONE SACRIFICE WITH TWO PARTS.

        IT IS TIME for you to start thinking as God Thinks and informs us.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Albur Tan View Post
          Here. Are. The. Two. Goats. Of. The. DoA.
          And he shall take of the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats for a sin offering, and one ram for a burnt offering. And Aaron shall offer his bullock of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make an atonement for himself, and for his house. And he shall take the two goats, and present them before the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat. And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the Lord's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering. But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness{H4057 midbar}.
          Leviticus 16:5-10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...10&version=KJV {Additional Emphasis by SDAchristian}
          For reference.

          I agree that the first goat represents Jesus' ministry of moving sin or "an end of reconciling the holy [place]".

          AV Lv 16:20-21 And when he hath made an end of reconciling the holy [place], and the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat: 21 And Aaron shall lay both his hands upon the head of the live goat, and confess over him all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions in all their sins, putting them upon the head of the goat, and shall send [him] away by the hand of a fit man into the wilderness:

          In your eschatology perspective, When do the sins come off the scapegoat, to be destroyed ???
          Originally posted by Albur Tan View Post
          You do realize that the type and shadow of the goats in the DoA ritual were ONE SACRIFICE WITH TWO PARTS.
          IT IS TIME for you to start thinking as God Thinks and informs us.
          AV Lk 22:67-68 Art thou the Christ? tell us. And he said unto them, If I tell you, ye will not believe: 68 And if I also ask [you], ye will not answer me, nor let [me] go.

          So you want to identify the scapegoat as Jesus as the type, and let go in "the wilderness"; and anti-type, let go in "the wilderness" ???

          In your eschatology perspective, when does Jesus go "into the wilderness{H4057 midbar}" ???

          Yours in Christ, Michael
          Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
          If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
          Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Pythons View Post
            "Now, priests and rulers, where is the power of your guard? Brave soldiers that have never been afraid of human power are now as captives taken without sword or spear. The face they look upon is not the face of mortal warrior; it is the face of the mightiest of the Lord's host. This messenger is he who fills the position from which Satan fell. It is he who on the hills of Bethlehem proclaimed Christ's birth. The earth trembles at his approach, the hosts of darkness flee, and as he rolls away the stone, heaven seems to come down to the earth. The soldiers see him removing the stone as he would a pebble, and hear him cry, Son of God, come forth; Thy Father calls Thee. They see Jesus come forth from the grave, and hear Him proclaim over the rent sepulcher, 'I am the resurrection, and the life.' As He comes forth in majesty and glory, the angel host bow low in adoration before the Redeemer, and welcome Him with songs of praise." (Ellen White ,The Desire of Ages, 779.3)

            Oddly enough THIS MAKES SENSE that Ellen would say this...
            ...After-all Ellen did classify Lucifer as an archangel.
            ...& She claimed Christ was an archangel.

            No wonder there was such animus in heaven - you had two archangels competing for lofty positions and one of them drew the short straw.


            Demons do not have the power, nor authority to rise one up from the grave.
            Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah].

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Albur Tan View Post
              You do realize that the type and shadow of the goats in the DoA ritual were ONE SACRIFICE WITH TWO PARTS.
              IT IS TIME for you to start thinking as God Thinks and informs us.
              Bump for Albur Tan, to my reply to this post.

              Yours in Christ, Michael
              Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
              If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
              Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Albur Tan View Post
                let's talk about what the Bible actually says about the DoA.
                AV Lv 16:26 And he that let go the goat for the scapegoat shall wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in water, and afterward come into the camp.

                So is Jesus, that dirty ??? Or are these actions symbolic of what then ???

                Yours in Christ, Michael
                Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
                If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
                Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by SDAchristian View Post
                  AV Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell(G1067 geena).

                  We should discuss the life cycle of sin here. This statement indicates a lack of knowledge to GOD's Will towards sin and how it will be destroyed.

                  AV Ps 23:4 Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou [art] with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

                  The real spiritual death casts a shadow into the physical reality of this existence.

                  AV Re 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

                  In our realm of physical reality, a soul dies twice in the first death("the valley of the shadow of death") physically and the second death("which is the second death") spiritually.

                  AV Jn 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

                  First Question(More in later posts): Where does sin "taketh away" to/go when it is confessed to Jesus("Behold the Lamb of God") ???

                  It's Okay, to not answer if you don't know.

                  Yours in Christ, Michael
                  The passage Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death refers to how death has been reduced to a mere shadow for those saved in Christ. It doesnt speak of the soul dying.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by TheMatrixHasU71 View Post
                    The passage Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death refers to how death has been reduced to a mere shadow for those saved in Christ. It doesnt speak of the soul dying.
                    AV Mt 10:27-28 What I tell you in darkness, [that] speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, [that] preach ye upon the housetops. 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

                    You are seriously lacking knowledge of GOD's word in the physical death and spiritual death(true "hell").

                    In GOD's understanding, how does anyone escape the grave, by what Bible method ???

                    Yours in Christ, Michael
                    Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
                    If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
                    Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by SDAchristian View Post
                      AV Mt 10:27-28 What I tell you in darkness, [that] speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, [that] preach ye upon the housetops. 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

                      You are seriously lacking knowledge of GOD's word in the physical death and spiritual death(true "hell").

                      In GOD's understanding, how does anyone escape the grave, by what Bible method ???

                      Yours in Christ, Michael
                      Matthew 10:27 has nothing whatever to do with Psalm 23:4

                      The first death is when you die. The second death is when the unrighteous are judged an sent to the lake of fire at the end of the 1000 year earthly reign of Jesus. The shadow of death in Psalm 23:4 is death being reduced to a shadow over us thereby having no power over the righteous even when we die.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by TheMatrixHasU71 View Post
                        Matthew 10:27 has nothing whatever to do with Psalm 23:4
                        AV Mt 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

                        Your opinion is noted again.

                        Your understanding of the two deaths(physical and spiritual) and their circumstances needs improvement to the Words of GOD.
                        Originally posted by TheMatrixHasU71 View Post
                        The first death is when you die. The second death is when the unrighteous are judged an sent to the lake of fire at the end of the 1000 year earthly reign of Jesus. The shadow of death in Psalm 23:4 is death being reduced to a shadow over us thereby having no power over the righteous even when we die.
                        AV Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.

                        Your grasp of types in "shadow of things to come" and anti-types in "fulfillment of types" needs expanding.

                        Yours in Christ, Michael
                        Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
                        If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
                        Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          AV Mt 10:27-28 What I tell you in darkness, [that] speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, [that] preach ye upon the housetops. 28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
                          Originally posted by TheMatrixHasU71 View Post
                          The first death is when you die.
                          Death of our flesh("kill the body"), not our souls("not able to kill the soul").
                          Originally posted by TheMatrixHasU71 View Post
                          The second death is when the unrighteous are judged an sent to the lake of fire at the end of the 1000 year earthly reign of Jesus.
                          "which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell", Do you understand "destroy" in context here ???
                          Originally posted by TheMatrixHasU71 View Post
                          The shadow of death in Psalm 23:4 is death being reduced to a shadow over us thereby having no power over the righteous even when we die.
                          We need to work some semantics out here, for agreement.

                          "The shadow of death in Psalm 23:4 is death", Is death of "the body"/flesh, not the soul.

                          AV Jn 5:28-29 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

                          Resurrection is of the flesh. The second death is destruction of the resurrected flesh/body with the soul.

                          We need to protect GOD's meaning of Truth.

                          Yours in Christ, Michael
                          Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
                          If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
                          Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

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