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The church that is in Babylon

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  • The church that is in Babylon

    The church that is in Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; I have seen this verse rendered in many ways from ‘she who is in Babylon’ to ‘your sister church in Babylon’ which have led to the most fanciful interpretations. James is usually cited as the first Bishop of Jerusalem while Peter is usually cited as the first Bishop of Antioch and Rome. For this reason most scholars have seen this verse as a reference to pagan Rome or Mesopotamian Babylon (Acts 2:9,10). While pagan Rome was no friend to Christians, Christianity did flourish and prosper throughout the Empire. When I read this verse I don’t necessarily see a place but more of a state of mind. Babylon to the Jewish mind was a place of bondage and captivity and the church of the 1st century was still very much in bondage and captivity to the Torah. The converted Gentiles readily accepted the gospel truth of ‘righteousness by faith’. While the converted Jews struggled with it and could never make a clean break from their beloved Torah which became a constant stumbling block in the church. By the time of Emperor Constantine the Great the church had fully come out of Babylon or the Torah and remained that way for over a thousand years. But with the dawn of the Protestant Reformation the church began to slowly head back to the Torah. And with the false prophets of John Darby, Ellen White, Joseph Smith and Charles T Russell the church went fully back to the Torah or Babylon. So that today much of Protestant Christianity is Messianic Judaism. Dispensationalism, Adventism, Mormonism and Jehovah’s Witness are just different variations of the judaizing heresy where Christians are forever banished to the Old Testament. The Jews would be the first ones to admit that the Old Testament was never for Christians and I completely agree. Nothing good ever happens when Christians go back to the Old Testament. Every tenet of Christianity can be defended from the New Testament so there is no reason to go back there. Now of course the Old Testament serves a valuable role as a historical record but when it comes to doctrine it’s obsolete. The law teaches people to look inwardly to themselves and their performance while grace teaches us to look outwardly to Christ and the souls he died for. Christianity is simply trusting that Christ is in control of my life and when something bad happens I just give it to him and he takes care of it. All the external rites of the Torah are just shackles and chains for the faithless in Babylon.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Nola369 View Post
    The church that is in Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; I have seen this verse rendered in many ways from ‘she who is in Babylon’ to ‘your sister church in Babylon’ which have led to the most fanciful interpretations. James is usually cited as the first Bishop of Jerusalem while Peter is usually cited as the first Bishop of Antioch and Rome. For this reason most scholars have seen this verse as a reference to pagan Rome or Mesopotamian Babylon (Acts 2:9,10). While pagan Rome was no friend to Christians, Christianity did flourish and prosper throughout the Empire. When I read this verse I don’t necessarily see a place but more of a state of mind. Babylon to the Jewish mind was a place of bondage and captivity and the church of the 1st century was still very much in bondage and captivity to the Torah. The converted Gentiles readily accepted the gospel truth of ‘righteousness by faith’. While the converted Jews struggled with it and could never make a clean break from their beloved Torah which became a constant stumbling block in the church. By the time of Emperor Constantine the Great the church had fully come out of Babylon or the Torah and remained that way for over a thousand years. But with the dawn of the Protestant Reformation the church began to slowly head back to the Torah. And with the false prophets of John Darby, Ellen White, Joseph Smith and Charles T Russell the church went fully back to the Torah or Babylon. So that today much of Protestant Christianity is Messianic Judaism. Dispensationalism, Adventism, Mormonism and Jehovah’s Witness are just different variations of the judaizing heresy where Christians are forever banished to the Old Testament. The Jews would be the first ones to admit that the Old Testament was never for Christians and I completely agree. Nothing good ever happens when Christians go back to the Old Testament. Every tenet of Christianity can be defended from the New Testament so there is no reason to go back there. Now of course the Old Testament serves a valuable role as a historical record but when it comes to doctrine it’s obsolete. The law teaches people to look inwardly to themselves and their performance while grace teaches us to look outwardly to Christ and the souls he died for. Christianity is simply trusting that Christ is in control of my life and when something bad happens I just give it to him and he takes care of it. All the external rites of the Torah are just shackles and chains for the faithless in Babylon.
    Not a single question, to guide discussion here.

    So what was your goal in posting this statement ???

    Yours in Christ, Michael
    Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
    If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
    Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by SDAchristian View Post
      Not a single question, to guide discussion here.

      So what was your goal in posting this statement ???

      Yours in Christ, Michael
      Rome is not Babylon! The Catholic church is not Babylon! The pope is not Babylon!

      Jerusalem the great city (Jer. 22:8) that is spiritually called Sodom (homo) and Egypt (Jacob came from) and the place where our Lord was crucified (Golgotha) is Babylon.

      The historical home of the old covenant or the Torah that is in bondage to the curse of the law.

      Comment


      • #4
        bump

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Albur Tan View Post
          Seventh-day Adventism’s COUNTERFEIT GOSPELS

          This was posted by Mailmandan in another thread. ...

          I was once in a discussion with a SDA about the Gospel and he made this erroneous statement below:

          “The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.”

          The Gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To believe the Gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation.
          Originally posted by danno
          The book of Acts has errors, lies , Contradictions and truth! You need a spiritual gift of discernment!
          Clearly sdaism is in dire need of the gift of discernment.

          What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 1 Cor 2:12

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Nola369 View Post
            Rome is not Babylon! The Catholic church is not Babylon! The pope is not Babylon!
            Jerusalem the great city (Jer. 22:8) that is spiritually called Sodom (homo) and Egypt (Jacob came from) and the place where our Lord was crucified (Golgotha) is Babylon.
            AV 2Th 2:3-5 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

            In the words of a Pope, and that system of worship, we find Sunday Rest, Get it ???

            Sunday or First Day rest is still works. I would like to know, where that is found in GOD's example or GOD's Words ???

            Yours in Christ, Michael
            Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
            If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
            Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Nola369 View Post
              The historical home of the old covenant or the Torah that is in bondage to the curse of the law.
              Let me know, if you are really serious about discussing these words of yours.

              I will ask for patience here, this time of year is very busy for me personally. So I will be on and off intermittently.

              Yours in Christ, Michael
              Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
              If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
              Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SDAchristian View Post
                AV 2Th 2:3-5 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

                In the words of a Pope, and that system of worship, we find Sunday Rest, Get it ???

                Sunday or First Day rest is still works. I would like to know, where that is found in GOD's example or GOD's Words ???

                Yours in Christ, Michael
                Sunday is a defense against cults like SDA who make the Sabbath into the gospel!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by SDAchristian View Post
                  AV 2Th 2:3-5 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

                  In the words of a Pope, and that system of worship, we find Sunday Rest, Get it ???

                  Sunday or First Day rest is still works. I would like to know, where that is found in GOD's example or GOD's Words ???

                  Yours in Christ, Michael
                  The Catholic church was around for 1800 years before Ellen showed up and filled the world with her heresy.

                  The pope is the only one who has a chance of defeating all the legalists spawned by Ellen White and John Darby.

                  So many former adventists end up in dispensationalism and just go from one heresy to another.

                  Comment

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