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Revelation 12:17 The Decalogue and Sabbath keeping

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  • Revelation 12:17 The Decalogue and Sabbath keeping

    Revelation 12:17 (KJV)
    17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Adventists according to my understanding interpret the word commandment to be a reference to The 10 commandments given through Moses

    The Greek translated translated commandments is

    Greek Strong's Number: 1785
    Greek Word: ἐͦӦϦή
    Transliteration: entol
    Phonetic Pronunciation:[IMG]file:///C:/ProgramData/WORDsearch/Library/Strongs/file:///C:/ProgramData/WORDsearch/Wordsearch%252012/Cache/Linked/images/nuspkr.png[/IMG]en-tol-ay'
    Root: from <G1781>
    Cross Reference: TDNT - 2:545,234
    Part of Speech: n f
    Vine's Words: Commandment, Precept







    Usage Notes:



    English Words used in KJV:

    commandment 69
    precept 2
    [Total Count: 71]



    from <G1781> (entellomai); injunction, i.e. an authoritative prescription :- commandment, precept.



    Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

    It is used in the new Testament in a wider sense that the Decalogue and as a reference to both the moral and ceremonial laws

    Matthew 22:36-40 (KJV)
    36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
    37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    38 This is the first and great commandment.
    39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    Now the second commandment here nowhere appears in the Decalogue

    It does however establish a principle which is summed up in specific provisions of the decalogue

    Mark 10:2-5 (KJV)
    2 And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.
    3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?
    4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
    5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.

    There are of course no provisions for a bill of divorcement in the Decalogue

    Hebrews 7:11-18 (KJV)
    11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
    12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
    13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
    14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
    15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
    16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
    17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
    18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

    Here the same Greek word is used to refer to the establishment of the Aaronic priesthood which has been set aside

    Hebrews 9:19-20 (KJV)
    19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
    20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

    Here we do not have the same Greek word but a word that is synonamous and is translated command

    Greek Strong's Number: 1781
    Greek Word: ἐͦέ˦˦
    Transliteration: entell*
    Phonetic Pronunciation:[IMG]file:///C:/ProgramData/WORDsearch/Library/Strongs/file:///C:/ProgramData/WORDsearch/Wordsearch%252012/Cache/Linked/images/nuspkr.png[/IMG]en-tel'-lom-ahee
    Root: from <G1722> and the base of <G5056>
    Cross Reference: TDNT - 2:544,234
    Part of Speech: v
    Vine's Words: Charge, Chargeable, Command, Enjoin







    Usage Notes:



    English Words used in KJV:

    command 10
    give commandment 3
    give charge 2
    enjoin 1
    charge 1
    [Total Count: 17]



    from <G1722> (en) and the base of <G5056> (telos); to enjoin :- (give) charge, (give) command (-ments), injoin.



    Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

    So we see god's commands include both Moral and ceremonial aspests

    The book of Hebrews informs us ceremonial aspects have been set aside

    Hebrews 7:5-28 (KJV)
    5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
    6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
    7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
    8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
    9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
    10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
    11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
    12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
    13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
    14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
    15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
    16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
    17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
    18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
    19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
    20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
    21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
    22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
    23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
    24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
    25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
    26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
    27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
    28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

    So was sabbath keeping a moral or ceremonial imperative

    Being based upon a remembrance of creation and God's rest upon finishing the creation it appears ceremonial

    further the Sabbath was a shadow of the rest that is fulfilled by salvation in Christ

    Hebrews 4:1-11 (KJV)
    1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
    2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
    3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
    4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
    5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
    6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
    7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
    8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
    9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
    10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
    11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

    Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

  • #2
    Originally posted by TomL View Post
    Revelation 12:17 (KJV)
    17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Adventists according to my understanding interpret the word commandment to be a reference to The 10 commandments given through Moses

    The Greek translated translated commandments is

    Greek Strong's Number: 1785
    Greek Word: ἐͦӦϦή
    Transliteration: entol
    Phonetic Pronunciation:[IMG]file:///C:/ProgramData/WORDsearch/Library/Strongs/file:///C:/ProgramData/WORDsearch/Wordsearch%252012/Cache/Linked/images/nuspkr.png[/IMG]en-tol-ay'
    Root: from <G1781>
    Cross Reference: TDNT - 2:545,234
    Part of Speech: n f
    Vine's Words: Commandment, Precept







    Usage Notes:



    English Words used in KJV:

    commandment 69
    precept 2
    [Total Count: 71]



    from <G1781> (entellomai); injunction, i.e. an authoritative prescription :- commandment, precept.



    Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

    It is used in the new Testament in a wider sense that the Decalogue and as a reference to both the moral and ceremonial laws

    Matthew 22:36-40 (KJV)
    36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
    37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    38 This is the first and great commandment.
    39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    Now the second commandment here nowhere appears in the Decalogue

    It does however establish a principle which is summed up in specific provisions of the decalogue

    Mark 10:2-5 (KJV)
    2 And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.
    3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?
    4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
    5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.

    There are of course no provisions for a bill of divorcement in the Decalogue

    Hebrews 7:11-18 (KJV)
    11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
    12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
    13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
    14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
    15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
    16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
    17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
    18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

    Here the same Greek word is used to refer to the establishment of the Aaronic priesthood which has been set aside

    Hebrews 9:19-20 (KJV)
    19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
    20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

    Here we do not have the same Greek word but a word that is synonamous and is translated command

    Greek Strong's Number: 1781
    Greek Word: ἐͦέ˦˦
    Transliteration: entell*
    Phonetic Pronunciation:[IMG]file:///C:/ProgramData/WORDsearch/Library/Strongs/file:///C:/ProgramData/WORDsearch/Wordsearch%252012/Cache/Linked/images/nuspkr.png[/IMG]en-tel'-lom-ahee
    Root: from <G1722> and the base of <G5056>
    Cross Reference: TDNT - 2:544,234
    Part of Speech: v
    Vine's Words: Charge, Chargeable, Command, Enjoin







    Usage Notes:



    English Words used in KJV:

    command 10
    give commandment 3
    give charge 2
    enjoin 1
    charge 1
    [Total Count: 17]



    from <G1722> (en) and the base of <G5056> (telos); to enjoin :- (give) charge, (give) command (-ments), injoin.



    Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

    So we see god's commands include both Moral and ceremonial aspests

    The book of Hebrews informs us ceremonial aspects have been set aside

    Hebrews 7:5-28 (KJV)
    5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
    6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
    7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
    8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
    9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
    10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
    11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
    12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
    13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
    14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
    15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
    16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
    17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
    18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
    19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
    20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
    21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
    22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
    23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
    24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
    25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
    26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
    27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
    28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

    So was sabbath keeping a moral or ceremonial imperative

    Being based upon a remembrance of creation and God's rest upon finishing the creation it appears ceremonial

    further the Sabbath was a shadow of the rest that is fulfilled by salvation in Christ

    Hebrews 4:1-11 (KJV)
    1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
    2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
    3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
    4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
    5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
    6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
    7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
    8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
    9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
    10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
    11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
    Adventists ?
    Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by TomL View Post
      Now the second commandment here nowhere appears in the Decalogue
      In a literal verbatim sense, you are correct. But in a moral character sense(as GOD intended), you are not.
      Originally posted by TomL View Post
      It does however establish a principle which is summed up in specific provisions of the decalogue
      I hope we agree in "principle".

      AV Mt 22:36-40 Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

      Ref. Jn 8:45: I need to ask, Do you object to Jesus saying "second" as a defining reference then ???

      AV Ro 13:8-10 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.

      So you want to discount Paul's understanding of love completely ??? Or alter it ???

      AV 1C 13:1-7 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become [as] sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have [the gift of] prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed [the poor], and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. 4 . Charity suffereth long, [and] is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

      Any other comments, you care to make about Paul's writings on Love ???

      Check Question: Given the "second" as evidence of showing love to our neighbour, Does "the first and great commandment" reflect our love behavior towards GOD, from the Decalogue ???

      We will both answer to GOD for our use of words here.

      Yours in Christ, Michael
      Last edited by SDAchristian; 01-26-19, 12:22 AM.
      Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
      If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
      Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TomL View Post

        Adventists ?
        Adventists what? What is your concern, that we translate commandments to mean commandments? I have not found anything in your rendition of Strongs to convince me otherwise.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TomL View Post

          Adventists ?

          What commandments of God do you believe Rev 12: 17 and Rev 14: 12 is refering to ??

          Please feel free and tell us . After all it is your thread amd chosen topic.

          Waiting...

          Comment


          • #6
            1Jn3:19-24 19 And by this we now that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

            Jesus kept His Father's 10 commandments and we are to keep Jesus commandments

            Jn 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
            Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TomL View Post

              Adventists ?
              Adventists what? Still waiting for you to clarify what it is that you want to discuss, other than the ten commandments, and the priesthood of Jesus?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by DANNO View Post


                What commandments of God do you believe Rev 12: 17 and Rev 14: 12 is refering to ??

                Please feel free and tell us . After all it is your thread amd chosen topic.

                Waiting...
                God's commands given by God Himself in Jn chapter 15 verses 9-17 Do you believe the book of John is part of the cannon? Do you believe Jesus is God?
                Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ontheBeam View Post
                  1Jn3:19-24 19 And by this we now that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His COMMANDMENT: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us COMMANDMENT.

                  Jesus kept His Father's 10 commandments and we are to keep Jesus commandments

                  Jn 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

                  Hi ontheBeam,

                  There is only one COMMANDMENT supplied in your reference. Sorry, but that doesn't qualify as COMMANDMENTS (plural).

                  You illustrate that you don't understand that the commandments
                  written on stone were not the problem. "God found fault with the people," not what the people agreed/covenanted to keep. And why would God EVER find fault with what HE HIMSELF commanded. God is perfect and what He commands is likewise perfect. The sheer audacity and utter nonsense of this premise is confounding and stupefying. Formers appear to be so determined to transgress God's commandmentS that they would rather implicate and condemn the lawGiver as errant and evil than to admit what is plainly stated in Scripture. The reason for the New Covenant was NEVER that there was anything wrong with what was agreed upon (i.e. the Ten Commandments), but that the people did not do what they PROMISED to do. Again, "God found fault with the people BECAUSE they did NOT remain faithful to [His] covenant."

                  No matter how much you insist to the contrary, the text does NOT read: "God found fault with His law and replaced it because it was imperfect." If you would just acknowledge this simple truth, much of your many other contentions would melt away.

                  God bless.

                  But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
                  But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    [QUOTE=Icyspark;n5840248]


                    Hi ontheBeam,

                    There is only one COMMANDMENT supplied in your reference. Sorry, but that doesn't qualify as COMMANDMENTS (plural).

                    Hello Spark, I am not an English major in the least, so I cannot debate the issue except to note that John did mention TWO commands, to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

                    Then in verse 22 he writes: And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. Verse 23 And this is His commandment...... Paul confirmes that John is not referring to the 10 commandments and shouldn't because they were done away according to Paul in 2Cor3:7-11 KJV and Eph 2:15. I also note that you didn't comment on Jn 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Fathers commandments and abide in His love. Were not the Father's commandments the 10 commandments? Did or didn't Jesus keep those 10 commandments? Did Jesus give us His commands to us? Did Jesus ask us to keep the Father's commandments? Were the 10 commandments all the commandments that deal with morality? Why did God leave out the laws of love from the 10 commandments if they are to be the standard or rule of right to all of humanity? Something interesting I would like to know, if the 10 commandments is the revelation of God's character why didn't the love laws get included? Isn't God the God of love too? Maybe Ellen spoke to soon about the 10 being the character of God.

                    Out of all the nations of the World God only asked one nation to observe a day. Commandments dealing with morality are for all people and are all found in the Royal Law of Love.

                    You illustrate that you don't understand that the commandments
                    written on stone were not the problem. "God found fault with the people," not what the people agreed/covenanted to keep. And why would God EVER find fault with what HE HIMSELF commanded.
                    Please give me a clue as to why I don't understand that it was the Israelites who were to blame. There you go with the "put downs". Anything to make your opponent look inferior to the great teacher.


                    God is perfect and what He commands is likewise perfect. The sheer audacity and utter nonsense of this premise is confounding and stupefying.
                    What is confounding and stupefying is your writing something that is not true.


                    Formers appear to be so determined to transgress God's commandmentS that they would rather implicate and condemn the lawGiver as errant and evil than to admit what is plainly stated in Scripture.
                    Plainly stated for one nation and never for any other nation. Formers are heads above SDAs that depend on a false prophet for their beliefs. Formers know better than to try to conform to a covenant that has ended. Formers serve a new and better covenant ratified with Jesus own Blood at Calvary. Formers know we that when there is a change in the priesthood there is a change in the law. Formers know that Paul wrote in Galatians that the Law ended with the coming of Jesus/ Ellen White didn't know any of that, in fact she was really pretty ignorant yet she has followers. I guess you are impressed with all the books she wrote chastising the flock and anyone else that stood up to her ignorance.

                    The reason for the New Covenant was NEVER that there was anything wrong with what was agreed upon (i.e. the Ten Commandments), but that the people did not do what they PROMISED to do. Again, "God found fault with the people BECAUSE they did NOT remain faithful to [His] covenant."
                    Thanks, I guess, for reiterating what I already know. The fact is that Jeremiah prophesied that Israel would sometime come under a new covenant. Where did that prophecy come from Spark? Why did Israel need a better covenant Spark. Has God given Israel a new covenant Spark? Then why, in all that is good, will you not accept the fact and stop trying to live by what God gave only to Israel and not to anyone else. Ellen White was not God.

                    No matter how much you insist to the contrary, the text does NOT read: "God found fault with His law and replaced it because it was imperfect." If you would just acknowledge this simple truth, much of your many other contentions would melt away.
                    If you would put away your allegiance to Ellen and put your allegiance to the truths found in the Holy Writ you wouldn't be diverting the real issue by making false accusations to your brother.
                    Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TomL View Post
                      Revelation 12:17 (KJV)
                      17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

                      Adventists according to my understanding interpret the word commandment to be a reference to The 10 commandments given through Moses

                      The Greek translated translated commandments is

                      Greek Strong's Number: 1785
                      Greek Word: ἐͦӦϦή
                      Transliteration: entol
                      Phonetic Pronunciation:[IMG]file:///C:/ProgramData/WORDsearch/Library/Strongs/file:///C:/ProgramData/WORDsearch/Wordsearch%252012/Cache/Linked/images/nuspkr.png[/IMG]en-tol-ay'
                      Root: from <G1781>
                      Cross Reference: TDNT - 2:545,234
                      Part of Speech: n f
                      Vine's Words: Commandment, Precept







                      Usage Notes:



                      English Words used in KJV:

                      commandment 69
                      precept 2
                      [Total Count: 71]



                      from <G1781> (entellomai); injunction, i.e. an authoritative prescription :- commandment, precept.



                      Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

                      It is used in the new Testament in a wider sense that the Decalogue and as a reference to both the moral and ceremonial laws

                      Matthew 22:36-40 (KJV)
                      36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
                      37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
                      38 This is the first and great commandment.
                      39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
                      40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

                      Now the second commandment here nowhere appears in the Decalogue

                      It does however establish a principle which is summed up in specific provisions of the decalogue

                      Mark 10:2-5 (KJV)
                      2 And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.
                      3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?
                      4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
                      5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.

                      There are of course no provisions for a bill of divorcement in the Decalogue

                      Hebrews 7:11-18 (KJV)
                      11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
                      12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
                      13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
                      14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
                      15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
                      16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
                      17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
                      18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

                      Here the same Greek word is used to refer to the establishment of the Aaronic priesthood which has been set aside

                      Hebrews 9:19-20 (KJV)
                      19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
                      20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

                      Here we do not have the same Greek word but a word that is synonamous and is translated command

                      Greek Strong's Number: 1781
                      Greek Word: ἐͦέ˦˦
                      Transliteration: entell*
                      Phonetic Pronunciation:[IMG]file:///C:/ProgramData/WORDsearch/Library/Strongs/file:///C:/ProgramData/WORDsearch/Wordsearch%252012/Cache/Linked/images/nuspkr.png[/IMG]en-tel'-lom-ahee
                      Root: from <G1722> and the base of <G5056>
                      Cross Reference: TDNT - 2:544,234
                      Part of Speech: v
                      Vine's Words: Charge, Chargeable, Command, Enjoin







                      Usage Notes:



                      English Words used in KJV:

                      command 10
                      give commandment 3
                      give charge 2
                      enjoin 1
                      charge 1
                      [Total Count: 17]



                      from <G1722> (en) and the base of <G5056> (telos); to enjoin :- (give) charge, (give) command (-ments), injoin.



                      Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

                      So we see god's commands include both Moral and ceremonial aspests

                      The book of Hebrews informs us ceremonial aspects have been set aside

                      Hebrews 7:5-28 (KJV)
                      5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
                      6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
                      7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
                      8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
                      9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
                      10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.
                      11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
                      12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
                      13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
                      14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
                      15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
                      16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
                      17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
                      18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
                      19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
                      20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
                      21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
                      22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
                      23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
                      24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
                      25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
                      26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
                      27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
                      28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

                      So was sabbath keeping a moral or ceremonial imperative

                      Being based upon a remembrance of creation and God's rest upon finishing the creation it appears ceremonial

                      further the Sabbath was a shadow of the rest that is fulfilled by salvation in Christ

                      Hebrews 4:1-11 (KJV)
                      1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
                      2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
                      3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
                      4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
                      5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
                      6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
                      7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
                      8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
                      9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
                      10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
                      11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
                      The Ten Commandments given to Moses by Jesus

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TomL
                        Hebrews 7:
                        19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
                        20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
                        21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
                        22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
                        23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
                        24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
                        25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, ...
                        Uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit
                        Originally posted by Greg Goodchild View Post
                        The Ten Commandments given to Moses by Jesus
                        "This is he who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the Angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, the one who received the living oracles to give to us, 39 whom our fathers would not obey, but rejected. And in their hearts they turned back..."Acts 7
                        Last edited by mathias; 03-09-19, 09:38 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mathias View Post
                          Uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit

                          "This is he who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the Angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, the one who received the living oracles to give to us, 39 whom our fathers would not obey, but rejected. And in their hearts they turned back..."Acts 7
                          Apparently you do not think that the Angel in Acts 7 was Jesus?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DANNO View Post


                            What commandments of God do you believe Rev 12: 17 and Rev 14: 12 is refering to ??

                            Please feel free and tell us . After all it is your thread amd chosen topic.

                            Waiting...
                            God's commandments. Who else would have commandments sacred to God?

                            Comment


                            • #15

                              The Angel of the Lord ... said: "I led you up from Egypt and brought you to the land of which I swore to your fathers; and I said, 'I will never break My covenant with you'"
                              Originally posted by Greg Goodchild View Post
                              Apparently you do not think that the Angel in Acts 7 was Jesus?
                              They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
                              Last edited by mathias; 03-11-19, 10:13 AM.

                              Comment

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