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Do Adventists recognize divisions in the Law

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  • #31
    [QUOTE=mathias;n5923963][ A Priest Forever ]
    So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him: "You are My Son, Today I have begotten You." Hebrews 5:5

    It is yet far more evident if, According to the order of Melchizedek, there arises another priest 16 who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment,
    but according to the power of an endless life.
    By so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant. Hebrews 7:15-22[/QUO

    And when will the new covenant bring about His second coming in your theology? Jesus died for us 2000 years ago and yet we are still here on this earth and sin continues to be active in the world. When will it end in your theology?

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Greg Goodchild View Post
      mathias;n5923963][ A Priest Forever ]
      So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him: "You are My Son, Today I have begotten You." Hebrews 5:5

      It is yet far more evident if, According to the order of Melchizedek, there arises another priest 16 who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment,
      but according to the power of an endless life.
      By so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant. Hebrews 7:15-22
      And when will the new covenant bring about His second coming in your theology? Jesus died for us 2000 years ago and yet we are still here on this earth and sin continues to be active in the world. When will it end in your theology?
      John 3:36
      Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Icyspark
        14. The covenant of Ten Commandments comprises ONLY 10 commandments.
        Originally posted by B Student View Post
        [*]Is there really a Covenant of just the 10 commandments? I don’t think that is supported by scripture, and I suggest that you’re wrong on this if you are limiting the OC exclusively to them.

        Hi B Student,

        I don't currently have the time to address the rest of your post, but this particular comment drew my attention. This is easily discovered by doing a Bible search for the words "covenant" and "ten commandments" and voila!
        Deuteronomy 4:13
        He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.
        So actually, yes, this position is "supported by Scripture." The problem for you and others with this mindset is that now that you've seen this position "supported by Scripture," how will you incorporate it into your biblical worldview? The word "covenant" is there, as is the word "ten." The numeral "ten" limits this covenant to only that many "commandments." Moses says, "Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you." Likewise Solomon writes, "Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar." Will the Lord "prove you a liar"?

        After God spoke the Ten Commandment covenant to the "whole assembly there on the mountain from out of the fire" we read that "He added nothing more. Then He wrote them on two stone tablets and gave them to" Moses. This begs the question. If God "added nothing more," and we're told not to add or subtract from His words, how is it that you and others think you can do what God plainly admonished should not be done?


        The Mosaic Covenant included all that God commanded Moses (including but not limited to the 10 commandments). Why are you excluding everything else that God showed Moses on the mountain if they were required to obey everything else as part of the agreement? (Deut 10:12-13, 11:1, 12:1. Deut 27:1)[/LIST]

        Moses indicates that the additional decrees, regulations, and laws (mentioned in the post dated 01-27-19 on this thread) were to be written in "the book of the law," which was to be placed "beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God. There it will remain as a WITNESS AGAINST YOU." Just out of curiosity, if these decrees, regulations and laws were all part and parcel of the Ten Commandment covenant, how come God commanded that they be kept separate? God commanded that the book of the law be placed "BESIDE the ark of the covenant." Of the Ten Commandment covenant He said, "put IN the ark the tablets of the covenant law, which I will give you" (Ex. 25:16). Five verses later God tells Moses to, "Place the cover on top of the ark and put IN the ark the tablets of the covenant law that I will give you." Two different locations. Why couldn't the book of the law be placed with the Ten Commandment covenant "in the ark"? Wasn't there enough room in the box? Do you think the tablets were so large that the book wouldn't fit with them?

        I pray this helps.

        But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
        But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Icyspark View Post



          Hi B Student,

          I don't currently have the time to address the rest of your post, but this particular comment drew my attention. This is easily discovered by doing a Bible search for the words "covenant" and "ten commandments" and voila!
          Deuteronomy 4:13
          He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.
          So actually, yes, this position is "supported by Scripture." The problem for you and others with this mindset is that now that you've seen this position "supported by Scripture," how will you incorporate it into your biblical worldview? The word "covenant" is there, as is the word "ten." The numeral "ten" limits this covenant to only that many "commandments." Moses says, "Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you." Likewise Solomon writes, "Do not add to his words, or he will rebuke you and prove you a liar." Will the Lord "prove you a liar"?

          After God spoke the Ten Commandment covenant to the "whole assembly there on the mountain from out of the fire" we read that "He added nothing more. Then He wrote them on two stone tablets and gave them to" Moses. This begs the question. If God "added nothing more," and we're told not to add or subtract from His words, how is it that you and others think you can do what God plainly admonished should not be done?





          Moses indicates that the additional decrees, regulations, and laws (mentioned in the post dated 01-27-19 on this thread) were to be written in "the book of the law," which was to be placed "beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God. There it will remain as a WITNESS AGAINST YOU." Just out of curiosity, if these decrees, regulations and laws were all part and parcel of the Ten Commandment covenant, how come God commanded that they be kept separate? God commanded that the book of the law be placed "BESIDE the ark of the covenant." Of the Ten Commandment covenant He said, "put IN the ark the tablets of the covenant law, which I will give you" (Ex. 25:16). Five verses later God tells Moses to, "Place the cover on top of the ark and put IN the ark the tablets of the covenant law that I will give you." Two different locations. Why couldn't the book of the law be placed with the Ten Commandment covenant "in the ark"? Wasn't there enough room in the box? Do you think the tablets were so large that the book wouldn't fit with them?

          I pray this helps.

          But for the grace of God go I,cyspark
          Hold on there "teacher". If I were you I would start my learning from Exodus chapter 19 and end it with chapter 24. Those chapters paint a different story than what you are teaching. God didn't stop telling Moses how the Israelites were to live at the end of verse 17. In chapter 19 verses 5-6 God tells Moses He is going to give Israel a covenant to live by and He didn't stop giving them that covenant in verse 17. Starting in verse 22 God goes on giving Moses instruction and doesn't stop until the end of chapter 23. Chapter 24 verse 3: When Moses went and told the people all the Lord’s words and laws, they responded with one voice,Everything the Lord has said we will do.” 4 Moses then wrote down everything the Lord had said.

          The word of the people and what Moses did with all that God had given him in chapters 20-23 is further emphasized in the following verses: 7Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it to the people. They responded, “We will do everything the Lord has said; we will obey.”

          8 Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, “This is the blood of the covenant that the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.

          SDAs are so fixated on the 10 commandments that they fail to realize that they were part of 613 laws of a covenant that ended when the new and better covenant was ratified with Jesus own blood at Calvary. Paul tells us in very plain words that the 10 commandments have ended as the guide of the Israelite people and now all mankind has the gift of the Holy Spirit as our guide. See 2Cor3:7-11. We also know the veil of the Temple was torn at Jesus death, doing away with all the commands of the covenant concerning the Levite priesthood. Not only was the veil rent, but the Temple and Jerusalem were destroyed in A.D. 70 scattering Jews all over the World. No nation, no covenant, no Sabbaths, no sacrificial system, no tithing system. It is a real shame Jews will not recognize these facts and the same goes for those who think they are under obligation to observe ritual laws from the defunct covenant.

          Jesus is now all mankind's High Priest and Hebrews tells us when there is a change in the priesthood there is also a change in the laws, thus we have a new covenant without all the ritual commands found in the old covenant and that includes the weekly Sabbath requirement.
          Last edited by Mod9; 05-09-19, 09:15 PM. Reason: no violation
          Blessed are the cracked, for they are the ones who let in the light.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by ontheBeam View Post

            Hold on there "teacher". If I were you I would start my learning from Exodus chapter 19 and end it with chapter 24. Those chapters paint a different story than what you are teaching. God didn't stop telling Moses how the Israelites were to live at the end of verse 17. In chapter 19 verses 5-6 God tells Moses He is going to give Israel a covenant to live by and He didn't stop giving them that covenant in verse 17. Starting in verse 22 God goes on giving Moses instruction and doesn't stop until the end of chapter 23. Chapter 24 verse 3: When Moses went and told the people all the Lord’s words and laws, they responded with one voice,Everything the Lord has said we will do.” 4 Moses then wrote down everything the Lord had said.

            The word of the people and what Moses did with all that God had given him in chapters 20-23 is further emphasized in the following verses: 7Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it to the people. They responded, “We will do everything the Lord has said; we will obey.”

            8 Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, “This is the blood of the covenant that the Lord has made with you in accordance with all these words.

            SDAs are so fixated on the 10 commandments that they fail to realize that they were part of 613 laws of a covenant that ended when the new and better covenant was ratified with Jesus own blood at Calvary. Paul tells us in very plain words that the 10 commandments have ended as the guide of the Israelite people and now all mankind has the gift of the Holy Spirit as our guide. See 2Cor3:7-11. We also know the veil of the Temple was torn at Jesus death, doing away with all the commands of the covenant concerning the Levite priesthood. Not only was the veil rent, but the Temple and Jerusalem were destroyed in A.D. 70 scattering Jews all over the World. No nation, no covenant, no Sabbaths, no sacrificial system, no tithing system. It is a real shame Jews will not recognize these facts and the same goes for those who think they are under obligation to observe ritual laws from the defunct covenant.

            Jesus is now all mankind's High Priest and Hebrews tells us when there is a change in the priesthood there is also a change in the laws, thus we have a new covenant without all the ritual commands found in the old covenant and that includes the weekly Sabbath requirement.
            Yes, according to the Bible, the covenant was “everything that the lord has said” and that is what Moses wrote in the Book of the covenant/law that was dedicated as described in Hebrews 9:18-20 which is an almost word for word repeat of Exodus 24:1-9.

            Then you have the agreement/covenant in Exodus 34:27-28 being called the 10 commandments- which is an inaccurate translation from the Hebrew that doesn’t use their word for ‘commandment’. It is the same in Deut 4:13 and also Deut 10:4.

            Comment


            • #36
              'The Lord our righteousness.'
              Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. 1 John 2
              Originally posted by mathias View Post
              It is yet far more evident if, According to the order of Melchizedek, there arises another priest 16 who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life.
              By so much more Jesus has become a surety of a better covenant. Hebrews 7:15-22

              [ A Priest Forever ]
              So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him: "You are My Son, Today I have begotten You." Hebrews 5:5
              And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation,
              being designated by God as a high priest according to the order of Melchizedek. Heb 5:9-10
              Originally posted by Greg Goodchild View Post
              Jesus died for us 2000 years ago and yet we are still here on this earth and sin continues to be active in the world. When will it end in your theology?
              16 For assuredly He does not give help to angels, but He gives help to the seed of Abraham.
              17 Therefore, He had to be made like His brethren in all things, so that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. Heb 2
              Last edited by mathias; 05-12-19, 03:25 PM.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by TomL View Post

                Tom replies

                OK if the Law be indivisible then a change to the law would change all. This would obviously preclude Sabbath keeping as a requirement unless it was reaffirmed in the New covenant

                I was looking for Adventist input however and also discussion on if portions of the law could be changed, some retained , some not retained on what basis could we determine what those changes are.
                Hello brother Tom,

                I am a little new here still. Just taking a look around the the different sections of the forum today and found this OP which sparked my interest. This is actually an interesting topic and OP. I have spent some time in the scriptures looking at this subject matter. Happy to discuss it if your still interested?

                God bless.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Albur Tan View Post
                  Yes, according to the Bible, the covenant was “everything that the lord has said” and that is what Moses wrote in the Book of the covenant/law that was dedicated as described in Hebrews 9:18-20 which is an almost word for word repeat of Exodus 24:1-9.
                  Then you have the agreement/covenant in Exodus 34:27-28 being called the 10 commandments- which is an inaccurate translation from the Hebrew that doesn’t use their word for ‘commandment’. It is the same in Deut 4:13 and also Deut 10:4.
                  AV Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
                  AV Ex 34:28 . And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten{H6235 `eser} commandments{H1697 dabar}.

                  You made your case worse for meaning, by pointing this out. Are we going to discuss GOD's Word semantics then ???

                  Check Question: Do you believe that "ten-of the∙words" are not a ‘commandment’ then ???
                  AV Jn 5:45-47 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is [one] that accuseth you, [even] Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

                  Are you aware of Jesus' testimony to all believers, of being reviewed by Moses for truthfulness, Jesus' personal witness of the Truth that Moses was shown ???

                  Yours in Christ, Michael
                  Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
                  If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
                  Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

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