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Do Adventists recognize divisions in the Law

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  • Do Adventists recognize divisions in the Law


    At

    Hebrews 7:12 (KJV)
    12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

    We read of a change to the law

    Is the law a unit which must be observed or rejected in whole or does the law have different sections some of which may be retained and others which may be superseded


    In the CARM section
    1. Questions About Doctrine
    1. Civil - Deals with disputes between individuals. Expired with the demise of the Jewish civil government
      1. Be just with the poor, (Lev. 19:15)
      2. Cattle, of neighbor (Deut. 22:1-4)
      3. Children, rebellious (Deut. 21:18-21)
      4. Debt (Lev. 23:34-43; Deut. 31:10)
      5. Divorce (Deut. 22:19)
      6. Dress, attire (Deut. 22:5)
      7. Do not hate in your heart (Lev. 19:17)
      8. Inheritance (Num. 18:26; 26:53-56; 36:8-12)
      9. Justice practices (Lev. 24:17-23)
      10. Kidnapping (Exodus 21:16)
      11. Landmarks (Deuteronomy 19:14)
      12. Property redemption (Lev. 25)
      13. Murder and killing (Deut. 21:1-4)
      14. Retain just scales in commerce (Lev. 19:35f)
      15. Robbery, extortion, false witness, and restitution (Lev. 6:1-7)
      16. Sabbath breaking punishment (Num. 15:32-36)
      17. Theft (Deut. 5:19; Lev. 19:11)
      18. Warfare (Deut. 20:1-20)
    2. Ceremonial - Expired with the fulfillment of priestly work of Christ (Matt. 3:15)
      1. Cleaning house of leper (Lev. 14:33-57; Num. 5:2)
      2. Festivals (Lev. 23:1-25; Nu. 29:39)
      3. Laws on animals for food (Lev. 11:1-47)
      4. Law of Atonement (Lev. 16:1-28;17:1-16)
      5. Offerings (Num. 29:39)
      6. Priest, consecration of (Ex. 29:1-46)
      7. Priestly duties (Lev. 7:1-37)
      8. Regulations for Priests (Lev. 21,22)
      9. Various sacrificial offerings for sin (Lev. 1,2,3,4,5,6)
    3. Moral - No Expiration because it is based on God's character. "You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy," (Lev. 19:2)
      1. Idolatry (Lev. 26:1-13)
      2. Love God (Deut. 6:4)
      3. Love your neighbor as yourself (Lev. 19:18)
      4. Oppress your neighbor (Lev. 19:13)
      5. Stealing or lying (Lev. 19:11)
      6. Sacrifice children to Molech forbidden (Lev. 20:1-5)
      7. Sexual sins: adultery, incest, bestiality, homosexuality, etc. (Lev. 18:20; 20:9-21; Num. 5:12-15)
    If the law is divisible how do we decide what remains viable and what has been superseded.

    Do we assume all stipulations carry over from the old covenant to the New and only if explicitly noted as having been terminated are we then free from observance or do we only observe that which is explicitly reaffirmed in the new covenant ?

    How does this effect Observation of the Seventh day Sabbath or does it really ?
    Last edited by TomL; 12-23-18, 06:30 AM.
    Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

  • #2
    Originally posted by TomL View Post
    At

    Hebrews 7:12 (KJV)
    12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

    We read of a change to the law

    Is the law a unit which must be observed or rejected in whole or does the law have different sections some of which may be retained and others which may be superseded


    In the CARM section
    1. Questions About Doctrine
    1. Civil - Deals with disputes between individuals. Expired with the demise of the Jewish civil government
      1. Be just with the poor, (Lev. 19:15)
      2. Cattle, of neighbor (Deut. 22:1-4)
      3. Children, rebellious (Deut. 21:18-21)
      4. Debt (Lev. 23:34-43; Deut. 31:10)
      5. Divorce (Deut. 22:19)
      6. Dress, attire (Deut. 22:5)
      7. Do not hate in your heart (Lev. 19:17)
      8. Inheritance (Num. 18:26; 26:53-56; 36:8-12)
      9. Justice practices (Lev. 24:17-23)
      10. Kidnapping (Exodus 21:16)
      11. Landmarks (Deuteronomy 19:14)
      12. Property redemption (Lev. 25)
      13. Murder and killing (Deut. 21:1-4)
      14. Retain just scales in commerce (Lev. 19:35f)
      15. Robbery, extortion, false witness, and restitution (Lev. 6:1-7)
      16. Sabbath breaking punishment (Num. 15:32-36)
      17. Theft (Deut. 5:19; Lev. 19:11)
      18. Warfare (Deut. 20:1-20)
    2. Ceremonial - Expired with the fulfillment of priestly work of Christ (Matt. 3:15)
      1. Cleaning house of leper (Lev. 14:33-57; Num. 5:2)
      2. Festivals (Lev. 23:1-25; Nu. 29:39)
      3. Laws on animals for food (Lev. 11:1-47)
      4. Law of Atonement (Lev. 16:1-28;17:1-16)
      5. Offerings (Num. 29:39)
      6. Priest, consecration of (Ex. 29:1-46)
      7. Priestly duties (Lev. 7:1-37)
      8. Regulations for Priests (Lev. 21,22)
      9. Various sacrificial offerings for sin (Lev. 1,2,3,4,5,6)
    3. Moral - No Expiration because it is based on God's character. "You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy," (Lev. 19:2)
      1. Idolatry (Lev. 26:1-13)
      2. Love God (Deut. 6:4)
      3. Love your neighbor as yourself (Lev. 19:18)
      4. Oppress your neighbor (Lev. 19:13)
      5. Stealing or lying (Lev. 19:11)
      6. Sacrifice children to Molech forbidden (Lev. 20:1-5)
      7. Sexual sins: adultery, incest, bestiality, homosexuality, etc. (Lev. 18:20; 20:9-21; Num. 5:12-15)
    If the law is divisible how do we decide what remains viable and what has been superseded.

    Do we assume all stipulations carry over from the old covenant to the New and only if explicitly noted as having been terminated are we then free from observance or do we only observe that which is explicitly reaffirmed in the new covenant ?

    How does this effect Observation of the Seventh day Sabbath or does it really ?

    Galatians 3:10 does not differentiate such distinctions in THE Law.

    If you want to know the original content of THE BOOK OF THE LAW, read Exodus 20-24.

    The Bible then describes additions to that book in later chapters of exodus, Leviticus numbe3rs and Deuteronomy.

    SDA’s make a big deal about Saturday being the sabbath by pointing to the current Jewish practice of observing their sabbath on saturday but they conveniently ignore the Jewish view of THE Law as being ONE indivisible entity ADDED TO THE PROMISE 430 years after the promise to Abraham.

    SDA’s and others also make much of a perceived permanence of the Law and ignore the FACT that it was “added.... UNTIL the seed should come”.

    SDA teachings also perpetuate the myth that THE Law given at Sinai is the only Law of God that there is or ever will be and ignore the Law that is written on the heart in the new covenant is the Law of Christ, not some miniscule part of the contiginous Sinai covenant described as “the Bond Woman” in Galatians 4.

    That view teaches that writing an old and obsolete and fading away law in a new place somehow makes it new again.....


    For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
    Galatians 3:10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...10&version=KJV

    And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
    Galatians 3:17-19 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...19&version=KJV


    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Albur Tan View Post


      Galatians 3:10 does not differentiate such distinctions in THE Law.

      If you want to know the original content of THE BOOK OF THE LAW, read Exodus 20-24.

      The Bible then describes additions to that book in later chapters of exodus, Leviticus numbers and Deuteronomy.

      SDA’s make a big deal about Saturday being the sabbath by pointing to the current Jewish practice of observing their sabbath on saturday but they conveniently ignore the Jewish view of THE Law as being ONE indivisible entity ADDED TO THE PROMISE 430 years after the promise to Abraham.

      SDA’s and others also make much of a perceived permanence of the Law and ignore the FACT that it was “added.... UNTIL the seed should come”.

      SDA teachings also perpetuate the myth that THE Law given at Sinai is the only Law of God that there is or ever will be and ignore the Law that is written on the heart in the new covenant is the Law of Christ, not some miniscule part of the contiginous Sinai covenant described as “the Bond Woman” in Galatians 4.

      That view teaches that writing an old and obsolete and fading away law in a new place somehow makes it new again.....


      For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
      Galatians 3:10 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...10&version=KJV

      And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
      Galatians 3:17-19 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...19&version=KJV

      Tom replies

      OK if the Law be indivisible then a change to the law would change all. This would obviously preclude Sabbath keeping as a requirement unless it was reaffirmed in the New covenant


      I was looking for Adventist input however and also discussion on if portions of the law could be changed, some retained , some not retained on what basis could we determine what those changes are.

      Let God's word speak and everyman be silent

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by TomL View Post
        At Hebrews 7:12 (KJV)
        12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
        We read of a change to the law
        Is the law a unit which must be observed or rejected in whole or does the law have different sections some of which may be retained and others which may be superseded
        In the CARM section
        Questions About Doctrine
        1. Civil - Deals with disputes between individuals. Expired with the demise of the Jewish civil government
          1. Be just with the poor, (Lev. 19:15)
          2. Cattle, of neighbor (Deut. 22:1-4)
          3. Children, rebellious (Deut. 21:18-21)
          4. Debt (Lev. 23:34-43; Deut. 31:10)
          5. Divorce (Deut. 22:19)
          6. Dress, attire (Deut. 22:5)
          7. Do not hate in your heart (Lev. 19:17)
          8. Inheritance (Num. 18:26; 26:53-56; 36:8-12)
          9. Justice practices (Lev. 24:17-23)
          10. Kidnapping (Exodus 21:16)
          11. Landmarks (Deuteronomy 19:14)
          12. Property redemption (Lev. 25)
          13. Murder and killing (Deut. 21:1-4)
          14. Retain just scales in commerce (Lev. 19:35f)
          15. Robbery, extortion, false witness, and restitution (Lev. 6:1-7)
          16. Sabbath breaking punishment (Num. 15:32-36)
          17. Theft (Deut. 5:19; Lev. 19:11)
          18. Warfare (Deut. 20:1-20)
        2. Ceremonial - Expired with the fulfillment of priestly work of Christ (Matt. 3:15)
          1. Cleaning house of leper (Lev. 14:33-57; Num. 5:2)
          2. Festivals (Lev. 23:1-25; Nu. 29:39)
          3. Laws on animals for food (Lev. 11:1-47)
          4. Law of Atonement (Lev. 16:1-28;17:1-16)
          5. Offerings (Num. 29:39)
          6. Priest, consecration of (Ex. 29:1-46)
          7. Priestly duties (Lev. 7:1-37)
          8. Regulations for Priests (Lev. 21,22)
          9. Various sacrificial offerings for sin (Lev. 1,2,3,4,5,6)
        3. Moral - No Expiration because it is based on God's character. "You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy," (Lev. 19:2)
          1. Idolatry (Lev. 26:1-13)
          2. Love God (Deut. 6:4)
          3. Love your neighbor as yourself (Lev. 19:18)
          4. Oppress your neighbor (Lev. 19:13)
          5. Stealing or lying (Lev. 19:11)
          6. Sacrifice children to Molech forbidden (Lev. 20:1-5)
          7. Sexual sins: adultery, incest, bestiality, homosexuality, etc. (Lev. 18:20; 20:9-21; Num. 5:12-15)
        If the law is divisible how do we decide what remains viable and what has been superseded.
        Do we assume all stipulations carry over from the old covenant to the New and only if explicitly noted as having been terminated are we then free from observance or do we only observe that which is explicitly reaffirmed in the new covenant ?
        How does this effect Observation of the Seventh day Sabbath or does it really ?
        AV Ro 13:8-10 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.

        Paul is pretty plain here as "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself".

        But Jesus said, ...

        AV Mt 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

        Paul describe what Love to your neighbour looks like, Can we conclude what Love to GOD looks like as well, from the same source ???

        All our answers to be review by Jesus, and judged accordingly. Whether we believe GOD First or believe men First. Choose wisely.

        AV Jn 14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

        Have any of us consider seriously, if Jesus kept these laws for the Father in Love, should not we ???

        "Do Adventists recognize divisions in the Law", Yes, some still in force as love evidence to GOD & neighbour, some superseded(type vs. anti-type), some obsolete(like circumcision).

        Check Question: Did Jesus faithfully model in the flesh(as fully representing human behavior), what love is, to GOD and to neighbour ???

        Yours in Christ, Michael
        Last edited by SDAchristian; 01-26-19, 12:21 AM.
        Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
        If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
        Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SDAchristian View Post
          AV Ro 13:8-10 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.

          Paul is pretty plain here as "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself".

          But Jesus said, ...

          AV Mt 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

          Paul describe what Love to your neighbour looks like, Can we conclude what Love to GOD looks like as well, from the same source ???

          All our answers to be review by Jesus, and judged accordingly. Whether we believe GOD First or believe men First. Choose wisely.

          AV Jn 14:31 But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.

          Have any of us consider seriously, if Jesus kept these laws for the Father in Love, should not we ???

          "Do Adventists recognize divisions in the Law", Yes, some still in force as love evidence to GOD & neighbour, some superseded(type vs. anti-type), some obsolete(like circumcision).

          Check Question: Did Jesus faithfully model in the flesh(as fully representing human behavior), what love is, to GOD and to neighbour ???
          Of course SDA’s will tell you that there are divisions in the law.

          They will also tell you that all the law has not been fulfilled.

          And they will tell you that heaven and earth have not passed away.

          Then they proceed to tell you that there have been JOT’S AND TITTLES that have been changed in the law in violation of Matthew 5:18.


          They don’t even believe in the 6th commandment anymore.

          Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
          Matthew 5:17-21 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...21&version=KJV

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes to everything Albur Tan wrote.

            And much as Adventism places a literal spin on the exact physical placement of heavenly furniture and furnishings in its Investigative Judgement doctrine (preferring physical realities over spiritual realities), Adventism also makes much of the exact method of revelation for various portions of the Law.

            Ask any good Adventist and they will tell you that the 10 Commandments were "written by the finger of God" upon tablets of stone and placed "inside" the ark of the covenant, while the other portion of the law was simply written on a scroll and placed "beside" the Ark of the Covenant. While the Bible itself doesn't make this distinction in regard to the Law, it provides a convenient, albeit illogical, fig leaf for Adventist theology.

            A reading of 2 Corinthians 3, Colossians 2, or the books of Hebrews or Galatians, will not unburden them of this prejudice, because as 2 Corinthians 3 also tells us, a veil lies over their hearts when the Old Covenant is read. Only in Christ is this veil removed.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Albur Tan View Post
              Of course SDA’s will tell you that there are divisions in the law.
              They will also tell you that all the law has not been fulfilled.
              And they will tell you that heaven and earth have not passed away.
              Then they proceed to tell you that there have been JOT’S AND TITTLES that have been changed in the law in violation of Matthew 5:18.
              They don’t even believe in the 6th commandment anymore.
              Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
              Matthew 5:17-21 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...21&version=KJV
              Thank you for stating your OPINION !!!

              In the absence of evidence to support your statements, you have produced opinions. The truth of which, will be judged by GOD to evidence, and not by your perception or memory of evidence.

              AV Mt 12:36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

              Please realize the value of Jesus' words here, because GOD will judge your words, the accuracy of those words will roll back on you, per Jesus.

              Yours in Christ, Michael

              Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
              If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
              Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by 1stthings1st View Post
                Yes to everything Albur Tan wrote.
                And much as Adventism places a literal spin on the exact physical placement of heavenly furniture and furnishings in its Investigative Judgement doctrine (preferring physical realities over spiritual realities), Adventism also makes much of the exact method of revelation for various portions of the Law.
                Ask any good Adventist and they will tell you that the 10 Commandments were "written by the finger of God" upon tablets of stone and placed "inside" the ark of the covenant, while the other portion of the law was simply written on a scroll and placed "beside" the Ark of the Covenant. While the Bible itself doesn't make this distinction in regard to the Law, it provides a convenient, albeit illogical, fig leaf for Adventist theology.
                A reading of 2 Corinthians 3, Colossians 2, or the books of Hebrews or Galatians, will not unburden them of this prejudice, because as 2 Corinthians 3 also tells us, a veil lies over their hearts when the Old Covenant is read. Only in Christ is this veil removed.
                AV Mt 12:36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

                So you will accept Albur Tan's words, as your own words ???

                Does that you make you a prophet of Albur Tan ???

                Yours in Christ, Michael
                Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
                If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
                Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by SDAchristian View Post
                  AV Mt 12:36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

                  So you will accept Albur Tan's words, as your own words ???

                  Does that you make you a prophet of Albur Tan ???

                  Yours in Christ, Michael
                  lol ... a "prophet of Albur Tan"? Really, Michael? This is silliness.

                  One thing that I notice that you are not doing, is providing a biblical basis for Adventism's division of the law. Can you do that?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 1stthings1st View Post
                    lol ... a "prophet of Albur Tan"? Really, Michael? This is silliness.
                    It makes us think more clearly, by speculating on what you meant.
                    Originally posted by 1stthings1st View Post
                    One thing that I notice that you are not doing, is providing a biblical basis for Adventism's division of the law. Can you do that?
                    AV Ro 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises;

                    How do you read this verse ???

                    I bring this up to check, if you think Paul is using iterations. So Paul could have used, the law, the law, the law, the law, the law, the law and not repeat his meaning. Or Paul stating different aspects or divisions of the law ???

                    I call this the "unified law theory" used here at CARM by posters.

                    Answer carefully and wisely. <<< Implies you know every instance of "the law" used in the NT/NC.

                    Yours in Christ, Michael
                    Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
                    If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
                    Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by SDAchristian View Post
                      Thank you for stating your OPINION !!!

                      In the absence of evidence to support your statements, you have produced opinions. The truth of which, will be judged by GOD to evidence, and not by your perception or memory of evidence.

                      AV Mt 12:36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

                      Please realize the value of Jesus' words here, because GOD will judge your words, the accuracy of those words will roll back on you, per Jesus.

                      And the opinion noterer strikes again... Thanks for your opinion SDAc ——. Notice how the christian in the tag is subordinate to the name Seventh-day Adventist.


                      Why don’t you worry about the accuracy of your own words.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Albur Tan View Post
                        And the opinion noterer strikes again... Thanks for your opinion SDAc ——.
                        Your welcome !!!

                        Should I note, you mis-quoted my username ??? <<< Is there a CARM Rule about that ???
                        Originally posted by Albur Tan View Post
                        Notice how the christian in the tag is subordinate to the name Seventh-day Adventist.
                        I can report this post and see how far it makes it with the Moderators.
                        Usernames: You may pick any username you desire, but...You may not register a nickname which is a mockery of God/Christ, or if it uses the Lord's name in vain, or if it is deemed offensive by the moderators. You may not use name as mod, moderator, admin.
                        My username has been reviewed many times, by moderators. Care to pick a discussion over that topic again ???
                        Originally posted by Albur Tan View Post
                        Why don’t you worry about the accuracy of your own words.
                        You may Cut-N-Paste with a QuoteBox with link, any inaccurate information that I may have posted. With your comment about what is inaccurate with it, in your opinion.

                        Yours in Christ, Michael
                        Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
                        If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
                        Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

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                        • #13
                          Let us suppose that the Adventist assertion that the Law can be split into different categories such as ceremonial, moral, civic, etc., is true. I have a question about the following biblical passages.

                          "If on the Sabbath a man receives circumcision, so that the law of Moses may not be broken, are you angry with me because on the Sabbath I made a man’s whole body well?" John 7:23 ESV

                          The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the people of Israel, saying, If a woman conceives and bears a male child, then she shall be unclean seven days. As at the time of her menstruation, she shall be unclean. And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised." Leviticus 12:1-3 ESV

                          Adventists will all readily agree that the law regarding circumcision is ceremonial and yet, as Jesus points out, it takes precedence over the fourth commandment. Explain how a moral law can be set aside to satisfy a ceremonial one. I would suggest that it can't. One ceremonial law may take precedence over another one, but it cannot trump a moral one. Please show from the Bible where it is ok to murder, or steal, or blaspheme, or commit adultery so that a ceremonial law might be fulfilled.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SDAchristian View Post
                            It makes us think more clearly, by speculating on what you meant. AV Ro 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom [pertaineth] the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service [of God], and the promises;

                            How do you read this verse ???

                            I bring this up to check, if you think Paul is using iterations. So Paul could have used, the law, the law, the law, the law, the law, the law and not repeat his meaning. Or Paul stating different aspects or divisions of the law ???

                            I call this the "unified law theory" used here at CARM by posters.

                            Answer carefully and wisely. <<< Implies you know every instance of "the law" used in the NT/NC.

                            Yours in Christ, Michael
                            Michael, I'd like to see you address commen tater's post, using scripture.

                            What should we be taking away from your quotation of Romans 9:4? Should we be taking away Adventist theology, that the law is not unified, and that it contains various portions which may or may not have been fulfilled?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by commen tater View Post
                              Let us suppose that the Adventist assertion that the Law can be split into different categories such as ceremonial, moral, civic, etc., is true. I have a question about the following biblical passages.
                              "If on the Sabbath a man receives circumcision, so that the law of Moses may not be broken, are you angry with me because on the Sabbath I made a man’s whole body well?" John 7:23 ESV {Additional Emphasis by SDAchristian}
                              Point of view is important here. "... are you angry with me ...", Who wants to be angry at GOD ???

                              AV Jn 7:22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers; ) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.

                              Please note who Jesus holds responsible. Are you going to question Jesus' words here ??? Jesus works on the precedences of GOD.

                              Who gave "circumcision" then ???

                              AV Ro 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

                              Paul states it Best. Which "circumcision" does GOD want, physical in flesh(done by men), or spiritual in the heart(done by "the spirit") ???

                              So are you willing to let GOD do, what GOD wants to do, in regards to "circumcision" ???

                              Which do you think Jesus values more, physical in flesh, or spiritual in the heart ???
                              Originally posted by commen tater View Post
                              The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the people of Israel, saying, If a woman conceives and bears a male child, then she shall be unclean seven days. As at the time of her menstruation, she shall be unclean. And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised." Leviticus 12:1-3 ESV
                              Adventists will all readily agree that the law regarding circumcision is ceremonial and yet, as Jesus points out, it takes precedence over the fourth commandment. Explain how a moral law can be set aside to satisfy a ceremonial one.
                              A misunderstanding on your part here.

                              Was the physical "circumcision" as type pointing to the anti-type of spiritual in the heart ???

                              Check Question: So is "circumcision" 'spiritual in the heart ', moral or ceremonial ??? <<< So what good is "circumcision, which is outward in the flesh" ???

                              AV Mt 12:5-7 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is [one] greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what [this] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

                              From this verse, are you going to accuse of "guilt" then ???

                              The Pharisees missed Jesus point. So do you agree with the Pharisees' understanding(accusing GOD of wrong), in this case ???
                              Originally posted by commen tater View Post
                              I would suggest that it can't.
                              I see this as your opinion, not as GOD's will.
                              Originally posted by commen tater View Post
                              One ceremonial law may take precedence over another one, but it cannot trump a moral one.
                              So says you, from a limited understanding of what GOD wants. In NT/NC, The fourth commandment is written on the heart by the Spirit of GOD, but still identifies sin in the flesh.

                              A good discussion, is a list precedences of what GOD wants, from other scriptures.
                              Make that two lists: 1. Precedence of Righteousness, 2. Precedence of sins.
                              Originally posted by commen tater View Post
                              Please show from the Bible where it is ok to murder, or steal, or blaspheme, or commit adultery so that a ceremonial law might be fulfilled.
                              AV 2C 3:3 [Forasmuch as ye are] manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

                              Does "the Spirit of the living God", write on your heart, as sanctification ???

                              AV Ro 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
                              AV 1C 15:56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.

                              GOD still needs to judge sins in humans.

                              AV Ro 2:15-16 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; ) 16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

                              The Law will excuse some and accuse others of sin. <<< Do you see this as GOD's Truth ???
                              AV Mt 22:37-38 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment.

                              It's my opinion that, we all need to Love GOD in "circumcision" heart, "circumcision" mind and "circumcision" soul, more not less. The flesh pollutes GOD's meaning too many times.

                              GOD's Word is higher precedence than the words of men.

                              Yours in Christ, Michael
                              Last edited by SDAchristian; 01-27-19, 05:49 PM.
                              Choose please, either I am a Brother in Christ and I ask for Matthew 18:15-17 privileges, but if I am non-Christian to you, I ask for Matthew 5:44-48 in the attitude of Christ(Isaiah 53:7).
                              If you have a question/challenge/charge, please post it, with cut-n-paste source, with reasoning to conclusion.
                              Star of David(Rep Pt.), or Danger Ahead Caution(Report Post), or Apologetics(Reply with defense), Click as a Loving Christian. Your Choice...

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