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As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
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Diane S
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where does the claims that

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  • where does the claims that

    "satan" fell from heaven?
    one third of the angels fell with him?
    that satan tried to become God or become higher than God?

    Is Isaiah 14 the only proof text used for those claims?

    Thanks,
    Daniel

    PS I am aware that satan has the meaning of adversary. it is just that my memory is lost

    Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah].

  • #2
    Unsaved man is satan of God.

    And Lucifer was in first heaven (ground to outer space), and tried to ascend to second heaven (outer space - where the moon and planets reside).

    There are only two heavens in creation. That's why it's plural.

    BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY
    Where Bible and Christian Meet

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    • #3
      Satan is treated in a very confused way in Scripture, very probably because he does not directly encounter any mortal in the narratives.
      As his name suggests, he is The Accuser, the inquisitor who ferrets out the sins and weaknesses in mankind. He may have been among the folkloric faction of angels who felt that humans were unworthy to receive the Divine Message at Sinai. The non-biblical myth of him being exiled from Heaven before the population of the earth (as in Milton's Paradise Lost) is contradicted by his very active presence in the Book of Job. In Luke 10:18, Jesus says "I saw Satan fall like lightning from Heaven." -- It appears that the assumption that this was a one-way trip was entirely wrong; in any case, from other narratives in the NT Satan retains all his supernatural powers and can travel freely.

      As for Isaiah 14, it tells us nothing at all about Satan, that unpleasant angel, because that chapter of Isaiah is about the death of the oppressive king of Babylon, whose various sobriquets are now piled on sarcastically, now that his country has been invaded and he has been killed. The mention of "Lucifer" in KJV verse 12 is borrowed from the Latin Vulgate, which had trouble figuring a proper equivalent to a (presumably) Hebrew word or name that appears only here and may be related to the word for brightness; I suspect it might be a Babylonian title. So Lucifer is title of the dead King of Babylon, Riplinger wasted a chapter on this.

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      • #4
        Greetings Daniel,
        Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post
        "satan" fell from heaven?
        one third of the angels fell with him?
        that satan tried to become God or become higher than God?
        Is Isaiah 14 the only proof text used for those claims?
        PS I am aware that satan has the meaning of adversary. it is just that my memory is lost
        Christadelphians do not believe that Satan is a supernatural fallen angel, and stringing those four references together confuses the Biblical teaching concerning Satan, devil and the introduction of sin in the garden. You will find the above references in Luke 10:18, Revelation 12:4, Ezekiel 28:2 and Isaiah 14, but they teach contrary to your inference.

        Kind regards
        Trevor

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