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What EXACTLY is a Christian, Masons?

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  • What EXACTLY is a Christian, Masons?

    @kamatu and other Masons

    Masons, I address this OP to one Masonic poster because I want him, and other members of the "Gentle Craft" to explain what they mean when they call themselves "Christians" and what the other members of the Lodge consider Christians to be

    AFTER the Masonic fellows do their answering, then I ask those who consider themselves to be Christians to chime in.

    PLEASE let's not get off into mud slinging and name calling, no matter how "annoyed off" that we may get, because there is nothing that "justifies an ad hominem"
    MY FOUR APOLOGETIC AXIOMS

    1. Any verse ripped from its context is a pretext 100% of the time

    2. We attack lies so others will see the truth; that is proof of our love for all cultists, not our hatred .

    3. Inconsistency is a tiny hobgoblin haunting every cult

    4. "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire








  • #2
    Originally posted by john t View Post
    @kamatu and other Masons

    Masons, I address this OP to one Masonic poster because I want him, and other members of the "Gentle Craft" to explain what they mean when they call themselves "Christians" and what the other members of the Lodge consider Christians to be

    AFTER the Masonic fellows do their answering, then I ask those who consider themselves to be Christians to chime in.

    PLEASE let's not get off into mud slinging and name calling, no matter how "annoyed off" that we may get, because there is nothing that "justifies an ad hominem"

    When you start off by slighting us in the op, it's real hard to take you seriously.

    No one person alive can say with 100% certainty what it takes to define a Christian. There are too many variables when it comes to defining one's Faith.
    When fellow Christian's on this site can not agree on simple terms, how can you expect anyone to give you a definition?

    As long as an individual has their own personal relationship with God, that's all i need to know. Their denomination means nothing to me. It's their personal relationship that i want to hear from someone. That question is one i pose to every prospective mason i speak too.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by john t View Post
      @kamatu and other Masons

      Masons, I address this OP to one Masonic poster because I want him, and other members of the "Gentle Craft" to explain what they mean when they call themselves "Christians" and what the other members of the Lodge consider Christians to be

      AFTER the Masonic fellows do their answering, then I ask those who consider themselves to be Christians to chime in.

      PLEASE let's not get off into mud slinging and name calling, no matter how "annoyed off" that we may get, because there is nothing that "justifies an ad hominem"
      One who follows God, calling on the Name of Jesus Christ and acknowledging Him as one's Lord and Master, as given by the Scripture. Generally, the members of my lodge who regularly attend share the same beliefs.

      Not sure what you are going for here, but I'm sure you will let us know soon enough. I will note that if you are going to try to do a "who's the Christian" game, then your post is a bit simplistic and actually the wrong question is being asked. For that you would want to know how to discern, according to the Bible, who is a Christian within the limits that God allows us in Scripture.

      Oh, yes, you did just dis Christians who are Masons in your OP by appearing to make a false assumption, I'l let you figure out how and address it...or not....as you choose.
      An open mind is a good thing.
      Ensure that you don't open your mind so far that your brain falls out.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by kamatu View Post

        One who follows God, calling on the Name of Jesus Christ and acknowledging Him as one's Lord and Master, as given by the Scripture. Generally, the members of my lodge who regularly attend share the same beliefs.

        Not sure what you are going for here, but I'm sure you will let us know soon enough. I will note that if you are going to try to do a "who's the Christian" game, then your post is a bit simplistic and actually the wrong question is being asked. For that you would want to know how to discern, according to the Bible, who is a Christian within the limits that God allows us in Scripture.

        Oh, yes, you did just dis Christians who are Masons in your OP by appearing to make a false assumption, I'l let you figure out how and address it...or not....as you choose.
        It is YOU, who are playing games, not me. I can say that because your post is very defensive, and telling me that I am "asking the wrong question" and "making a false assumption". No, the thread is NOT about me, as you are attempting to twist it. Rather, it is directed to MASONS, and simply requesting an answer.

        Masons, I address this OP to one Masonic poster because I want him, and other members of the "Gentle Craft" to explain what they mean when they call themselves "Christians" and what the other members of the Lodge consider Christians to be
        You will see, that there are two questions for the Masons
        1. When you say that you are a Christian, what do YOU mean?
        2. When your fellow Lodge brothers claim to be Christians, what is your understanding of what they mean?
        Other than that, the OP is straightforward, and I do thank you for replying.
        MY FOUR APOLOGETIC AXIOMS

        1. Any verse ripped from its context is a pretext 100% of the time

        2. We attack lies so others will see the truth; that is proof of our love for all cultists, not our hatred .

        3. Inconsistency is a tiny hobgoblin haunting every cult

        4. "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire







        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by kamatu View Post
          One who follows God, calling on the Name of Jesus Christ and acknowledging Him as one's Lord and Master, as given by the Scripture. Generally, the members of my lodge who regularly attend share the same beliefs.[/quote]

          For informed discussion, I ask for some specifics about your understanding, please:
          1. How does one "call upon the name of Jesus Christ"?
          2. What is your understanding of "Lord and Master"?
          3. Does the fact of sin and its consequences enter your definition of being a Christian?
          MY FOUR APOLOGETIC AXIOMS

          1. Any verse ripped from its context is a pretext 100% of the time

          2. We attack lies so others will see the truth; that is proof of our love for all cultists, not our hatred .

          3. Inconsistency is a tiny hobgoblin haunting every cult

          4. "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire







          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by john t View Post
            Originally posted by kamatu View Post
            One who follows God, calling on the Name of Jesus Christ and acknowledging Him as one's Lord and Master, as given by the Scripture. Generally, the members of my lodge who regularly attend share the same beliefs.
            For informed discussion, I ask for some specifics about your understanding, please:
            1. How does one "call upon the name of Jesus Christ"?
            2. What is your understanding of "Lord and Master"?
            3. Does the fact of sin and its consequences enter your definition of being a Christian?
            [/QUOTE]

            I truly pray that this is not going to degenerate into a quibbling session, because I'm being general in my answers and not including Scripture proofs. Thank you though, this discussion is providing me with some fruitful study and thought during my quiet time.

            In the manner one is led to by Him. Generally, the definition is that it a prayer to the Lord acknowledging Him as the source of your salvation, well being, happiness, hope, etc. It can be audible, inaudible, public, private, etc. In all cases it acknowledges Jesus as the only Name by which we may be saved.

            One with authority over you.

            Yes. Without sin and its consequences, there would be no need for salvation by God.
            An open mind is a good thing.
            Ensure that you don't open your mind so far that your brain falls out.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by kamatu View Post

              For informed discussion, I ask for some specifics about your understanding, please:
              1. How does one "call upon the name of Jesus Christ"?
              2. What is your understanding of "Lord and Master"?
              3. Does the fact of sin and its consequences enter your definition of being a Christian?
              I truly pray that this is not going to degenerate into a quibbling session, because I'm being general in my answers and not including Scripture proofs. Thank you though, this discussion is providing me with some fruitful study and thought during my quiet time.

              In the manner one is led to by Him. Generally, the definition is that it a prayer to the Lord acknowledging Him as the source of your salvation, well being, happiness, hope, etc. It can be audible, inaudible, public, private, etc. In all cases it acknowledges Jesus as the only Name by which we may be saved.

              One with authority over you.

              Yes. Without sin and its consequences, there would be no need for salvation by God.[/QUOTE]

              THANK YOU

              Now we can continue having a common understanding of the definition of what it means to be a Christian
              MY FOUR APOLOGETIC AXIOMS

              1. Any verse ripped from its context is a pretext 100% of the time

              2. We attack lies so others will see the truth; that is proof of our love for all cultists, not our hatred .

              3. Inconsistency is a tiny hobgoblin haunting every cult

              4. "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire







              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by john t View Post

                I truly pray that this is not going to degenerate into a quibbling session, because I'm being general in my answers and not including Scripture proofs. Thank you though, this discussion is providing me with some fruitful study and thought during my quiet time.

                In the manner one is led to by Him. Generally, the definition is that it a prayer to the Lord acknowledging Him as the source of your salvation, well being, happiness, hope, etc. It can be audible, inaudible, public, private, etc. In all cases it acknowledges Jesus as the only Name by which we may be saved.

                One with authority over you.

                Yes. Without sin and its consequences, there would be no need for salvation by God.

                THANK YOU

                Now we can continue having a common understanding of the definition of what it means to be a Christian
                You do know that there are Biblically defined performance issues to being a Christian as well?

                Because while the first point is one only known between God and the individual, the Bible clearly teaches that not all who claim to have done the first point have actually done so, right?

                An open mind is a good thing.
                Ensure that you don't open your mind so far that your brain falls out.

                Comment


                • #9
                  [QUOTE=kamatu;n5332151]

                  You do know that there are Biblically defined performance issues to being a Christian as well?[/quote}

                  Please clarify
                  1. Do you mean " performance issues" in order to be saved?
                  2. Do you mean " performance issues" in order to merit salvation?
                  3. Do you mean "performance issues " in order to maintain salvation?
                  Originally posted by kamatu View Post
                  Because while the first point is one only known between God and the individual, the Bible clearly teaches that not all who claim to have done the first point have actually done so, right?
                  Please clarify as I am unsure of what you mean.

                  What exactly do you mean as "the first point"? to what were you referring?

                  I can neither agree, nor disagree because I have no idea what you mean.
                  MY FOUR APOLOGETIC AXIOMS

                  1. Any verse ripped from its context is a pretext 100% of the time

                  2. We attack lies so others will see the truth; that is proof of our love for all cultists, not our hatred .

                  3. Inconsistency is a tiny hobgoblin haunting every cult

                  4. "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire







                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by john t View Post
                    Originally posted by kamatu View Post

                    You do know that there are Biblically defined performance issues to being a Christian as well?
                    Please clarify
                    1. Do you mean " performance issues" in order to be saved?
                    2. Do you mean " performance issues" in order to merit salvation?
                    3. Do you mean "performance issues " in order to maintain salvation?


                    Please clarify as I am unsure of what you mean.

                    What exactly do you mean as "the first point"? to what were you referring?

                    I can neither agree, nor disagree because I have no idea what you mean.
                    Sorry, I thought this was fairly basic for anyone who studied the Bible and claimed to be advanced enough to deal with cults.

                    1 John 2:4
                    Galatians 5:19-21
                    Matthew 7:15-20
                    An open mind is a good thing.
                    Ensure that you don't open your mind so far that your brain falls out.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by kamatu View Post

                      You do know that there are Biblically defined performance issues to being a Christian as well?
                      Masonic works based salvation on display.


                      Ephesians 2:8-9
                      8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

                      No performance needed according to God.

                      No conviction,No conversion
                      John 16:8
                      And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kamatu View Post
                        Sorry, I thought this was fairly basic for anyone who studied the Bible and claimed to be advanced enough to deal with cults.

                        1 John 2:4
                        Galatians 5:19-21
                        Matthew 7:15-20
                        Snarky and irrelevant retort noted. . I asked those questions not because I do not know the meaning; I ask because I want to know the meaning that YOU GIVE to those terms.

                        BTW throwing out Bible verses is manifestly NOT an answer. It is a cop out. I can read what the Bible says, but I cannot read your mind unless you tell us what is your understanding of the verse.
                        MY FOUR APOLOGETIC AXIOMS

                        1. Any verse ripped from its context is a pretext 100% of the time

                        2. We attack lies so others will see the truth; that is proof of our love for all cultists, not our hatred .

                        3. Inconsistency is a tiny hobgoblin haunting every cult

                        4. "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire







                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bigboy View Post

                          Masonic works based salvation on display.


                          Ephesians 2:8-9
                          8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

                          No performance needed according to God.
                          False doctrine alert. Non Christian teaching based on (mis)interpretation of Scripture.

                          References to John 15 and James 2 directly as well as to many others.

                          Works have nothing to do with salvation, but those that are saved will display the fruits, including certain behaviors and deeds as evidence of salvation.

                          EDIT PER MOD
                          Last edited by 4Him; 07-31-18, 06:26 AM.
                          An open mind is a good thing.
                          Ensure that you don't open your mind so far that your brain falls out.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by john t View Post

                            Snarky and irrelevant retort noted. . I asked those questions not because I do not know the meaning; I ask because I want to know the meaning that YOU GIVE to those terms.

                            BTW throwing out Bible verses is manifestly NOT an answer. It is a cop out. I can read what the Bible says, but I cannot read your mind unless you tell us what is your understanding of the verse.
                            Thank you, can I quote that for every time I see an antimason who claims to be Christian do a drive by Bible verse posting?

                            Although, give your sig, I was expecting a more informed approach to the Bible. You can assume an orthodox interpretation and if you wish me to clarify, I will do so. Although after your major stepping on of your own sword over the "oaths" issue, I don't think you should be trying to take the high road here, because that was a most distinctly unorthodox or worse interpretation, especially when you tried to add in extra nonBiblical conditions to make oaths a "sin".

                            1 John 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

                            Really, you need me to explain this further?

                            Galatians 5 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

                            Seriously, you really need to me to expound on this one too? This is pretty straightforward so far.

                            Matthew 7 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

                            Okay, this is getting to be a joke. Did you even look at these before you posted your reply? Do you have any problem understanding these verses and what they are saying? It looks to me like all you did was pop off some kind of reply that tried to sound cool, but really isn't without actually giving the courtesy of READING the references from the Bible.

                            This would have enabled you to actually post any relevant questions you had.
                            An open mind is a good thing.
                            Ensure that you don't open your mind so far that your brain falls out.

                            Comment

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