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Freemasonry and its Incompatibility with the Christian Faith - An HONEST Discussion

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  • Freemasonry and its Incompatibility with the Christian Faith - An HONEST Discussion

    Freemasonry and its Incompatibility with the Christian Faith - an HONEST Discussion

    This new thread is intended to be for those who wish to engage in an honest discussion about Freemasonry and its incompatibility with the Christian faith. It is not intended for those who wish to go off on tangents, presenting nothing more than their own personal opinions about what they think Freemasonry should be, or what they wish it was. Nor will I engage with anybody who engages in any form of character assassin. Honest discussion is the only thing I am interested in. Further, I will be presenting official documentation, such as quotes from blue lodge ritual, monitors, mentors manuals, officers training manuals, and other such official grand lodge documents. If there are challenges to what I post from such documents, I expect documents of a similar nature to be used as the sources of such challenges.

    In a word, I am sick and tired of hearing the rants, lies, and personal attacks that come from the likes of most members of the Masonic Order on this and perhaps other forums, who serve as nothing more than radical Masonic apologists, intent on attacking Christians who are knowledgeable of, or who wish to be knowledgeable of, the Truth about Freemasonry and the heresies it teaches.

    The writings of Masonic authors is most certainly acceptable, but I prefer that it only be quotes from such that can be readily buttressed by grand lodge documentation such as the several sources I have listed above.

    Bearing all of the above in mind, I would like to begin with the matter of the lambskin, or white leather apron.

    "The Lamb has in all ages been deemed an emblem of innocence. He, therefore, who wears the Lambskin as the badge of a Mason is constantly reminded of that purity of life and rectitude of conduct so essentially necessary to his gaining admission into the Celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides." ('Florida Masonic Monitor')

    In the above quote from the Grand Lodge of Florida, Freemasonry presents the heretical teaching that one's own good works and good conduct are what is essentially necessary for entrance into heaven. All Christians recognize admission into heaven as meaning salvation. Only those who are saved - those who have received Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior shall enter into heaven. Others might well appear before the Great White Throne to be judged by their works alone, and be shown that because their names are not enrolled in the Lamb's Book of Life, they will be cast into the lake of fire. Theirs will be a short stay in heaven, or at the gates of heaven, followed by eternal separation from God.

    Some attempt to say the term, "purity" means one's own purity, or righteousness, having received such from Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God. Not true. Here is what the same Grand Lodge of Florida has to say about the term, "purity":

    "The Apron is at once an emblem of innocence, purity and the badge of a Mason. By purity is meant blamelessness, a loyal obedience to the laws of the Craft and sincere good will to the Brethren; the badge of a Mason signifies that Masons are workers and builders, not drones and destructionists." (''Booklet No. 2, The Lodge System of Masonic Education', prepared by the Grand Lodge of Florida through the Committee on Masonic Education)

    In spite of unsubstantiated arguments to the contrary, Freemasonry states its own interpretation of its own teachings, and the matter of "purity" is quite simply explained as meaning " . .blamelessness, a loyal obedience to the laws of the Craft and sincere good will to the brethren. ."

    There is no mention whatever of acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Yet, Freemasonry is here teaching that one's own purity and good conduct is essentially necessary for gaining admission into heaven, in spite of the fact that Jesus Christ has told us in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

    Yet, Freemasonry teaches a false, heretical works based plan of salvation that rejects/ignores the exclusivity of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Former Mason View Post
    Freemasonry and its Incompatibility with the Christian Faith - an HONEST Discussion

    This new thread is intended to be for those who wish to engage in an honest discussion about Freemasonry and its incompatibility with the Christian faith. It is not intended for those who wish to go off on tangents, presenting nothing more than their own personal opinions about what they think Freemasonry should be, or what they wish it was. Nor will I engage with anybody who engages in any form of character assassin. Honest discussion is the only thing I am interested in. Further, I will be presenting official documentation, such as quotes from blue lodge ritual, monitors, mentors manuals, officers training manuals, and other such official grand lodge documents. If there are challenges to what I post from such documents, I expect documents of a similar nature to be used as the sources of such challenges.

    In a word, I am sick and tired of hearing the rants, lies, and personal attacks that come from the likes of most members of the Masonic Order on this and perhaps other forums, who serve as nothing more than radical Masonic apologists, intent on attacking Christians who are knowledgeable of, or who wish to be knowledgeable of, the Truth about Freemasonry and the heresies it teaches.

    The writings of Masonic authors is most certainly acceptable, but I prefer that it only be quotes from such that can be readily buttressed by grand lodge documentation such as the several sources I have listed above.

    Bearing all of the above in mind, I would like to begin with the matter of the lambskin, or white leather apron.

    "The Lamb has in all ages been deemed an emblem of innocence. He, therefore, who wears the Lambskin as the badge of a Mason is constantly reminded of that purity of life and rectitude of conduct so essentially necessary to his gaining admission into the Celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe presides." ('Florida Masonic Monitor')

    In the above quote from the Grand Lodge of Florida, Freemasonry presents the heretical teaching that one's own good works and good conduct are what is essentially necessary for entrance into heaven. All Christians recognize admission into heaven as meaning salvation. Only those who are saved - those who have received Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior shall enter into heaven. Others might well appear before the Great White Throne to be judged by their works alone, and be shown that because their names are not enrolled in the Lamb's Book of Life, they will be cast into the lake of fire. Theirs will be a short stay in heaven, or at the gates of heaven, followed by eternal separation from God.

    Some attempt to say the term, "purity" means one's own purity, or righteousness, having received such from Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God. Not true. Here is what the same Grand Lodge of Florida has to say about the term, "purity":

    "The Apron is at once an emblem of innocence, purity and the badge of a Mason. By purity is meant blamelessness, a loyal obedience to the laws of the Craft and sincere good will to the Brethren; the badge of a Mason signifies that Masons are workers and builders, not drones and destructionists." (''Booklet No. 2, The Lodge System of Masonic Education', prepared by the Grand Lodge of Florida through the Committee on Masonic Education)

    In spite of unsubstantiated arguments to the contrary, Freemasonry states its own interpretation of its own teachings, and the matter of "purity" is quite simply explained as meaning " . .blamelessness, a loyal obedience to the laws of the Craft and sincere good will to the brethren. ."

    There is no mention whatever of acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Yet, Freemasonry is here teaching that one's own purity and good conduct is essentially necessary for gaining admission into heaven, in spite of the fact that Jesus Christ has told us in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

    Yet, Freemasonry teaches a false, heretical works based plan of salvation that rejects/ignores the exclusivity of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.
    (sigh) Endless repeating of the same old disproven stuff yet another day...
    Here is the reply I gave then about these claimed sources:

    A) Purchase is OPTIONAL
    B) Use is OPTIONAL
    C) Equals nobody has to use it to teach with which means it is simply a Grand Lodge committee's interpretation of one possible meaning.
    D) Equals it is not binding on any Mason as Scripture is for a Christian....
    E) Or it is as binding on any Mason as Scripture is for a "Christian" antimason, which means not at all from a review of the teaching of antimasons.
    F) Equals your claim is just as false as it was when you made it.
    As a former Mason, you know that none of this is authoritative and can be changed anytime a committee wants to do so, but keep defending this weak reed, I'll keep feeding you more rope.


    Although you are not officially the "former Mason" I was addressing, your styles are so much alike (probably your antimasonic beliefs) that it doesn't really matter.

    Here is the burden of proof for you: You must show that the writings of any Grand Lodge or other Freemason are as authoritative as the Scripture is for a Christian. If not, then you are just making stuff up when you claim any of this tripe as "proof" beyond you sez so.

    This was covered in the thread Character Counts, which antimasons hide from by claiming that character doesn't count for a Christian....at least the brand of 'Christian' that follows the beliefs of antimasonry


    Character noun
    1. the aggregate of features and traits that form the individual nature of some person or thing.
    2. one such feature or trait; characteristic.
    3. moral or ethical quality: a man of fine, honorable character.


    I didn't post the other definitions that reference qualities by which any Christian should be distinguished, like honesty, courage, etc.

    If you think that having good character is not relevant for a Christian, then I suggest you check that book you are reading and make sure that it is a Bible. By their fruits you will know them and I post here to show the fruits of antimasons who claim to be Christian, Speaking falsely and claiming to be Christian doen't go together according to the Bible.
    An open mind is a good thing.
    Ensure that you don't open your mind so far that your brain falls out.

    Comment


    • #3
      John t, I would very much like your comments on this:

      "The Masonic Lodge room is represented in the Ritual as a symbol of the world. The particular form in which this symbol is cast harks back to early times when man believed the earth to be square and the sky a solid dome; but while this no longer represents our idea of the physical shape of the world, the significance remains the same. The first Degree is not a discourse on geometry or astronomy.

      The world thus represented is the world of Masonry; the Masonic career from the beginning to end, including all that lies between. The West Gate, through which the candidate enters, represents birth; in the First Degree the candidate is born into the Masonic life. Therefore he is poor, blind, helpless, like a babe just born. The old life with all its accessories has dropped from him as completely as though he were dead. He now enters on a new life in a new world.

      Masonry is systematic, well proportioned, balanced. Duties and work are supervised and regulated, controlled through laws written and unwritten, expressed through Landmarks, traditions, usages, Constitutions and by-laws, guided and directed through officers vested with power and authority. The candidate obligates himself to uphold that lawful system; when he salutes the Master and Wardens he signifies his obedience to the legally constituted officers; when he follows his guide and fears no danger, he expresses his trust in, and loyalty to, the Fraternity, as should a child yet unable to trust himself.

      The new world is a lawful world in which whims and uncertainty have no part. It has a definite nature. It is devoted to specified purposes, committed to well-defined aims and ideals. Its members cannot make it over to suit their own whims or to conform to their own purposes; they must make themselves over to conform to its requirements. One should not become a Master Mason in order to become a Lodge member; he should become a member in order to become a real Master Mason. If anything in his nature obstructs him, he must use his Working Tools to remove it. Among the first requirements of the Apprentice is that he shall offer himself as rough stone, to be shaped under Masonic laws and influences for a place in the Temple of Masonry.

      The world of Masonry is a complete world. Existence in it is fully rounded, and it satisfies the needs of the whole man - physical, moral, intellectual, social, and spiritual. It establishes physical conditions suitable to its needs. It requires of its citizens that they be good and true men, able to meet the test of the Square, the Plumb, the Level, and the Compasses. It offers abundant opportunities for good fellowship and social contacts. It satisfies the mind with the great teachings of a profound philosophy. It worships God, prepares its altars, opens the Sacred Books and leads the life of prayer according to the needs of the soul. It is to learn such a life as this that an apprentice must study to improve himself in Masonry; it is not permitted of him to come merely for the loaves and fishes, or only to be entertained, or to seek some personal advantages. It is required that he build his life according to this trestleboard of a well-rounded existence, assisted by guides and teachers, encouraged and inspired by experienced Brethren, using the Working Tools and all other means provided.

      This world of Masonry is dedicated to Brotherhood. Unless the Apprentice is willing and qualified to lead the brotherly life, he will never master the Royal Art. Unless his obligations pledge him with genuine sincerity to live the brotherly life, the Mystic Tie can never take lasting hold of his nature. Unless he is willing to abide by the laws which define, regulate, and control the brotherly life, he will be out of step with the Fraternity, unable to find the foothold in the world he seeks to enter. All our ritual, symbols, emblems, allegories and ceremonies, in all the richness and variety of their meaning, point in the same direction. Unless an Apprentice accepts and understands them, he will fail to understand the Masonic meaning.

      In his First Degree an Apprentice takes his first step into this life, passing through the portals of birth into this sphere; leaving the darkness, destitution and helplessness of the profane world for the light and warmth of this new existence. This is the great meaning of the Degree; not an idle formality but a genuine experience, the beginning of a new career in which duties, rights and privileges are real. If a candidate is not to be an Apprentice in name only, he must stand ready to do a work upon his own nature which will make him a different man.

      As an Entered Apprentice, he must therefore possess certain qualities.

      One of them is obedience. Unless a learner is willing to obey his guides and teachers, there is no way for him to learn. Such obedience is not intended to be blind or servile, nor to rest on fanaticism; it is only what is required of any man, young or old, who undertakes the mastery of a new art.

      Another qualification is humility. An Apprentice will never be subjected to humiliation, but is demanded that he be willing to be led and directed, free from egotism or conceit, and have no presumptuous belief that he knows already what he has only begun to learn.

      With these he needs also industriousness. Freemasonry maintains a high threshold. She holds out no deceptive promise of an easy victory, but makes it plain that many obstacles and hazards will be encountered in the journey. Members are called Craftsmen because they are workmen; lodges are quarries because they are scenes of toil. Freemasonry offers no wages or rewards except to those who earn them; she places Working Tools in the hands of the members, not playthings.

      Also it is wise for any Entered Apprentice Mason to study a little Masonic literature, not necessarily at great length, but enough to familiarize himself with our history, Ritual, philosophy, and jurisprudence. These talks which you are hearing from members of this Committee will serve to give you an inkling of what you will find in the works written by the masters of our lore.

      To become a Mason is a solemn and serious undertaking. Once the step is taken, it may well change the course of a man's life." ('A Lodge System of Masonic Instruction' -Grand Lodge of Nevada)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by kamatu View Post

        (sigh) Endless repeating of the same old disproven stuff yet another day...
        Here is the reply I gave then about these claimed sources:



        As a former Mason, you know that none of this is authoritative and can be changed anytime a committee wants to do so, but keep defending this weak reed, I'll keep feeding you more rope.


        Although you are not officially the "former Mason" I was addressing, your styles are so much alike (probably your antimasonic beliefs) that it doesn't really matter.

        Here is the burden of proof for you: You must show that the writings of any Grand Lodge or other Freemason are as authoritative as the Scripture is for a Christian. If not, then you are just making stuff up when you claim any of this tripe as "proof" beyond you sez so.

        This was covered in the thread Character Counts, which antimasons hide from by claiming that character doesn't count for a Christian....at least the brand of 'Christian' that follows the beliefs of antimasonry






        I didn't post the other definitions that reference qualities by which any Christian should be distinguished, like honesty, courage, etc.

        If you think that having good character is not relevant for a Christian, then I suggest you check that book you are reading and make sure that it is a Bible. By their fruits you will know them and I post here to show the fruits of antimasons who claim to be Christian, Speaking falsely and claiming to be Christian doen't go together according to the Bible.
        Kamatu,

        If this isn't duane, I'll eat my hat!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SimpleMan View Post

          Kamatu,

          If this isn't duane, I'll eat my hat!
          Well, all I can say is that he popped up right after Duane fled after being proven wrong repeatedly on exactly this kind of stuff using the same sources. Oh, yes, pretty much identical posting styles and ways of framing arguments also.
          An open mind is a good thing.
          Ensure that you don't open your mind so far that your brain falls out.

          Comment


          • #6
            Too easy, I just reposted the previous response since until you prove the point I made in bold below, you are doing nothing but making stuff up out of whole cloth and if you really are a former Mason, then you KNOW you are doing so willfully, deliberately and with malice. If you are not a former Mason, then that also proves what you are and the being you actually follow. Welcome to lose-lose land neighbor.

            Originally posted by Former Mason View Post
            John t, I would very much like your comments on this:

            "The Masonic Lodge room is represented in the Ritual as a symbol of the world. The particular form in which this symbol is cast harks back to early times when man believed the earth to be square and the sky a solid dome; but while this no longer represents our idea of the physical shape of the world, the significance remains the same. The first Degree is not a discourse on geometry or astronomy.

            The world thus represented is the world of Masonry; the Masonic career from the beginning to end, including all that lies between. The West Gate, through which the candidate enters, represents birth; in the First Degree the candidate is born into the Masonic life. Therefore he is poor, blind, helpless, like a babe just born. The old life with all its accessories has dropped from him as completely as though he were dead. He now enters on a new life in a new world.

            Masonry is systematic, well proportioned, balanced. Duties and work are supervised and regulated, controlled through laws written and unwritten, expressed through Landmarks, traditions, usages, Constitutions and by-laws, guided and directed through officers vested with power and authority. The candidate obligates himself to uphold that lawful system; when he salutes the Master and Wardens he signifies his obedience to the legally constituted officers; when he follows his guide and fears no danger, he expresses his trust in, and loyalty to, the Fraternity, as should a child yet unable to trust himself.

            The new world is a lawful world in which whims and uncertainty have no part. It has a definite nature. It is devoted to specified purposes, committed to well-defined aims and ideals. Its members cannot make it over to suit their own whims or to conform to their own purposes; they must make themselves over to conform to its requirements. One should not become a Master Mason in order to become a Lodge member; he should become a member in order to become a real Master Mason. If anything in his nature obstructs him, he must use his Working Tools to remove it. Among the first requirements of the Apprentice is that he shall offer himself as rough stone, to be shaped under Masonic laws and influences for a place in the Temple of Masonry.

            The world of Masonry is a complete world. Existence in it is fully rounded, and it satisfies the needs of the whole man - physical, moral, intellectual, social, and spiritual. It establishes physical conditions suitable to its needs. It requires of its citizens that they be good and true men, able to meet the test of the Square, the Plumb, the Level, and the Compasses. It offers abundant opportunities for good fellowship and social contacts. It satisfies the mind with the great teachings of a profound philosophy. It worships God, prepares its altars, opens the Sacred Books and leads the life of prayer according to the needs of the soul. It is to learn such a life as this that an apprentice must study to improve himself in Masonry; it is not permitted of him to come merely for the loaves and fishes, or only to be entertained, or to seek some personal advantages. It is required that he build his life according to this trestleboard of a well-rounded existence, assisted by guides and teachers, encouraged and inspired by experienced Brethren, using the Working Tools and all other means provided.

            This world of Masonry is dedicated to Brotherhood. Unless the Apprentice is willing and qualified to lead the brotherly life, he will never master the Royal Art. Unless his obligations pledge him with genuine sincerity to live the brotherly life, the Mystic Tie can never take lasting hold of his nature. Unless he is willing to abide by the laws which define, regulate, and control the brotherly life, he will be out of step with the Fraternity, unable to find the foothold in the world he seeks to enter. All our ritual, symbols, emblems, allegories and ceremonies, in all the richness and variety of their meaning, point in the same direction. Unless an Apprentice accepts and understands them, he will fail to understand the Masonic meaning.

            In his First Degree an Apprentice takes his first step into this life, passing through the portals of birth into this sphere; leaving the darkness, destitution and helplessness of the profane world for the light and warmth of this new existence. This is the great meaning of the Degree; not an idle formality but a genuine experience, the beginning of a new career in which duties, rights and privileges are real. If a candidate is not to be an Apprentice in name only, he must stand ready to do a work upon his own nature which will make him a different man.

            As an Entered Apprentice, he must therefore possess certain qualities.

            One of them is obedience. Unless a learner is willing to obey his guides and teachers, there is no way for him to learn. Such obedience is not intended to be blind or servile, nor to rest on fanaticism; it is only what is required of any man, young or old, who undertakes the mastery of a new art.

            Another qualification is humility. An Apprentice will never be subjected to humiliation, but is demanded that he be willing to be led and directed, free from egotism or conceit, and have no presumptuous belief that he knows already what he has only begun to learn.

            With these he needs also industriousness. Freemasonry maintains a high threshold. She holds out no deceptive promise of an easy victory, but makes it plain that many obstacles and hazards will be encountered in the journey. Members are called Craftsmen because they are workmen; lodges are quarries because they are scenes of toil. Freemasonry offers no wages or rewards except to those who earn them; she places Working Tools in the hands of the members, not playthings.

            Also it is wise for any Entered Apprentice Mason to study a little Masonic literature, not necessarily at great length, but enough to familiarize himself with our history, Ritual, philosophy, and jurisprudence. These talks which you are hearing from members of this Committee will serve to give you an inkling of what you will find in the works written by the masters of our lore.

            To become a Mason is a solemn and serious undertaking. Once the step is taken, it may well change the course of a man's life." ('A Lodge System of Masonic Instruction' -Grand Lodge of Nevada)
            (sigh) Endless repeating of the same old disproven stuff yet another day...
            Here is the reply I gave then about these claimed sources:


            A) Purchase is OPTIONAL
            B) Use is OPTIONAL
            C) Equals nobody has to use it to teach with which means it is simply a Grand Lodge committee's interpretation of one possible meaning.
            D) Equals it is not binding on any Mason as Scripture is for a Christian....
            E) Or it is as binding on any Mason as Scripture is for a "Christian" antimason, which means not at all from a review of the teaching of antimasons.
            F) Equals your claim is just as false as it was when you made it.
            As a former Mason, you know that none of this is authoritative and can be changed anytime a committee wants to do so, but keep defending this weak reed, I'll keep feeding you more rope.


            Although you are not officially the "former Mason" I was addressing, your styles are so much alike (probably your antimasonic beliefs) that it doesn't really matter.

            Here is the burden of proof for you: You must show that the writings of any Grand Lodge or other Freemason are as authoritative as the Scripture is for a Christian. If not, then you are just making stuff up when you claim any of this tripe as "proof" beyond you sez so.

            This was covered in the thread Character Counts, which antimasons hide from by claiming that character doesn't count for a Christian....at least the brand of 'Christian' that follows the beliefs of antimasonry



            Character noun
            1. the aggregate of features and traits that form the individual nature of some person or thing.
            2. one such feature or trait; characteristic.
            3. moral or ethical quality: a man of fine, honorable character.



            I didn't post the other definitions that reference qualities by which any Christian should be distinguished, like honesty, courage, etc.

            If you think that having good character is not relevant for a Christian, then I suggest you check that book you are reading and make sure that it is a Bible. By their fruits you will know them and I post here to show the fruits of antimasons who claim to be Christian, Speaking falsely and claiming to be Christian doen't go together according to the Bible.
            An open mind is a good thing.
            Ensure that you don't open your mind so far that your brain falls out.

            Comment


            • #7
              Well john t, there it is, the twisted logic of a Mason claiming to be a Christian. Perhaps any antichristian Mason who makes such outrageous demands should write to the Grand Lodge of Nevada and ask them for a disclaimer on the publication they authorized??

              "The Lodge System of Masonic Instruction, adopted by the Grand Lodge Education Committee, is herewith set forth for the Worshipful Masters of the Member Lodges of the Grand Lodge of Nevada.

              @

              "This Booklet has been prepared by the Nevada Grand Lodge Education Committee, based upon a variety of successful candidate instruction programs used in several Grand Jurisdiction(s), including the Grand Lodges of New York, Georgia, District of Columbia, Pennsylvania and Utah. It has also proven very successful in several Constituent Lodges in this Jurisdiction. It is designed for use at Lodge Level, to hone the appetite of the candidate for "More Light in Masonry" and to prepare him for active membership."" ('A Lodge System of Masonic Instruction' - Nevada, "Forewarr")

              NOTE: I realize "Foreward" should be spelled "Foreword". Not my fault that the GL of Nevada doesn't employ spell checker.
              Last edited by Former Mason; 06-13-18, 12:33 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Former Mason View Post
                Well john t, there it is, the twisted logic of a Mason claiming to be a Christian. Perhaps any antichristian Mason who makes such outrageous demands should write to the Grand Lodge of Nevada and ask them for a disclaimer on the publication they authorized??

                "The Lodge System of Masonic Instruction, adopted by the Grand Lodge Education Committee, is herewith set forth for the Worshipful Masters of the Member Lodges of the Grand Lodge of Nevada.

                @

                "This Booklet has been prepared by the Nevada Grand Lodge Education Committee, based upon a variety of successful candidate instruction programs used in several Grand Jurisdiction(s), including the Grand Lodges of New York, Georgia, District of Columbia, Pennsylvania and Utah. It has also proven very successful in several Constituent Lodges in this Jurisdiction. It is designed for use at Lodge Level, to hone the appetite of the candidate for "More Light in Masonry" and to prepare him for active membership."" ('A Lodge System of Masonic Instruction' - Nevada, "Forewarr")

                NOTE: I realize "Foreward" should be spelled "Foreword". Not my fault that the GL of Nevada doesn't employ spell checker.
                So, you have no answer and no proof that anything written by any Grand Lodge is authoritative to a Freemason, correct?

                Especially since this makes your entire claim fail.

                Oh does this happen to be a copyrighted document?
                If so, do you happen to have permission to be publishing parts of it?
                Even if you could claim Fair Use, does your source have permission to be publishing the part you copied?
                I'm fairly sure you got it from E5-11 given your posting style, but then I've documented that many of their antimasonic pamphlets are not consistent with Biblical Christianity anyway.
                An open mind is a good thing.
                Ensure that you don't open your mind so far that your brain falls out.

                Comment


                • #9
                  John T.,

                  It appears that some of the Masonic apologists we have encountered are insistent that Grand Lodge publications have no meaning, and that they are not authoritative to any Freemasons.

                  That is one of the most dishonest statements I have heard in quite some time.

                  The rituals performed in lodge are to be strictly by the book. There is to be no deviation from it. Additionally, any Freemason, regardless of which GL jurisdiction he may hail from, is under the authoritative jurisdiction of whichever GL jurisdiction he happens to be in.

                  I am not going on a search on these matters, simply because somebody happens to want me to chase a rabbit down a hole. However, I do have the authoritative writings that back of what I say.

                  Having said that, here is one passage that pretty much says it all:
                  "The Masonic Code of Nevada having been approved by the Grand Lodge while in Annual Communication, governs each Lodge and every member thereof wherever he may be and any member of the Fraternity while within the Nevada Masonic Jurisdiction."('Officers Manual of Lodge Organization and Operation' - Grand Lodge of Nevada)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Former Mason View Post
                    John T.,

                    It appears that some of the Masonic apologists we have encountered are insistent that Grand Lodge publications have no meaning, and that they are not authoritative to any Freemasons.

                    That is one of the most dishonest statements I have heard in quite some time.

                    The rituals performed in lodge are to be strictly by the book. There is to be no deviation from it. Additionally, any Freemason, regardless of which GL jurisdiction he may hail from, is under the authoritative jurisdiction of whichever GL jurisdiction he happens to be in.

                    I am not going on a search on these matters, simply because somebody happens to want me to chase a rabbit down a hole. However, I do have the authoritative writings that back of what I say.

                    Having said that, here is one passage that pretty much says it all:
                    "The Masonic Code of Nevada having been approved by the Grand Lodge while in Annual Communication, governs each Lodge and every member thereof wherever he may be and any member of the Fraternity while within the Nevada Masonic Jurisdiction."('Officers Manual of Lodge Organization and Operation' - Grand Lodge of Nevada)
                    No, like Duane Washum, you simply cannot truthfully answer this, that is what is going on here.

                    Where do you find any GL publication or other source you cite that claims to be authoritative over Masons as the Bible is for Christians?

                    You cannot find one, you cannot with all your quotes prove one. A Grand Lodge consists of the Brethren of that Grand Lodge. They can vote to change the rituals, the workbooks, the study guides and any other such source you claim to be authoritative. I've seen it done. I've participated in votes where that happened an your great "authoritative" source was changed.

                    Of course, if you consider these sources to be authoritative considering the fact that men can reinterpret and change them at any time, perhaps that would explain the treatment of the Bible by antimasons who claim to be Christian since they twist and reinterpret the Bible all the time while still claiming it to be authoritative.
                    An open mind is a good thing.
                    Ensure that you don't open your mind so far that your brain falls out.

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