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Refuting WTS doctrines -Jesus Christ

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  • #16
    Originally posted by HollyWood View Post

    It's not only NT theology JWs are lacking in, they don't appear to know their own WTS beliefs. That's what comes of not being led by the Holy Spirit.

    If their worship of Jesus was seen by them as merely deep respect and not reverent adoration, why even tell them it was not okay to worship Jesus? [see QFR 1/1/1954 p.30]
    You ask this question and refer your readers to the QFR 1/1/1954 p.30. But the answer lies in the very first sentences of that answer to the question "Should we worship Jesus?" It has to do with Trinitarian 'type' worship of Jesus! Neither the early Bible Students or Jehovah's Witnesses have ever worshipped Jesus in that way and you know it. Hence, this is further strong evidence you do not understand(on purpose?)even what you quote and/or refer your readers to as you go on to conflate and confound certain different subjects!

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    • #17
      Worth another read methinks

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      • #18
        Still no answer from JWs ask to why "for public Christian worship of Almighty God and Christ Jesus" was removed from the WT Org charter.
        Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heartís desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about Godís righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Stupendousman!

          My GUESS is that no churchoid understands what "worship" is.
          Do YOU?
          Is that the reason it was removed? Did JW leaders decide they had the wrong understanding of what worship is?
          Last edited by cdrom1; 10-06-18, 12:44 AM. Reason: alert: no rule violation
          Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heartís desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about Godís righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by HollyWood View Post

            Russell's worship of Jesus was based on his belief that Jesus was God:

            "It seems clear that His Divinity was retained in humanity because He repeatedly spoke of Himself as having come down from heaven, and because He, though passing through trial and sorrow as a man, was yet possessed of the authority and exercised the prerogatives of a God. He was the object of unreproved worship even when a babe, by the wise men who came to see the new-born King. Matt. 2:2-11. Even the angels delighted to do Him honor. "When He bringeth the first-begotten into the world, He saith, "And let all the angels of God worship Him." Heb. 1:6. He never reproved any one for acts of worship offered to Himself, but when Cornelius offered such service to Peter--the leading apostle-- "he took him up, saying, stand up; I myself also am a man." .... Had Christ not been more than a man the same reason would have prevented from receiving worship...." Zion's Watch Tower 1880 Oct pp.2-3

            Nor did Russell consider worship of Jesus as what any ordinary person of high rank would be accorded:

            "In one respect many of Christendom could learn numerous important lessons from these wise Gentiles....They worshiped him in three senses of the word: (1) They fell before him, prostrated themselves, thus physically expressing their reverence. (2) They worshiped him in their hearts and with the tongue gave expression to their rejoicing and confidence. (3) They opened their treasure-box and presented to him three gifts appropriate to royalty: the myrrh representing submission, frankincense representing praise, gold representing obedience." Zion's Watch Tower 1906 Jan 1 p.15

            Russell also believed Jesus should be prayed to:

            "It is undoubtedly proper enough for us to address petitions to our Redeemer and Advocate, who loved us and gave himself for us....Although we are nowhere instructed to make petitions to him, it evidently could not be improper so to do; for such a course is nowhere prohibited, and the disciples worshiped him." Zion's Watch Tower 1892 May 15 p.157

            Your next president of the WTS (Rutherford) also held Russell's beliefs about worshiping Jesus:

            "Jehovah God commands all to worship Christ Jesus because Christ Jesus is the express image of his Father, Jehovah, and because he is the Executive Officer of Jehovah always carrying out Jehovah's purpose (Heb.:3-6)." Watchtower November 15, 1939 p. 339.

            "During the Millennium, "the princes will lead the people in their worship of Jehovah and of Christ." Vindication Volume 3 (J. F. Rutherford, 1932) p.295

            "The people of all nations who obtain salvation must come to the house of the Lord to worship there; that is to say, they must believe on and worship Jehovah God and the Lord Jesus Christ, his chief instrument (Philippians 2:10, 11)." Salvation (J. F. Rutherford, 1939) p.151

            As did Knorr:

            "Now, at Christ's coming to reign as king in Jehovah's capital organization Zion, to bring in a righteous new world, Jehovah makes him infinitely higher than the godly angels or messengers and accordingly commands them to worship him. Since Jehovah God now reigns as King by means of his capital organization Zion, then whosoever would worship Him must also worship and bow down to Jehovah's Chief One in that capital organization, namely, Christ Jesus, his Co-regent on the throne of The Theocracy." Watchtower 1945 Oct 15 p.313

            Then in the 1950s to coincide with their own translation of the Bible, worshiping Jesus was changed to "merely bowing or doing obeisance to a person out of deep respect." [w54 1/1 p.30]

            JWs today are to consider the reverent adoration they gave Jesus for all those decades was a form of idolatry---worshiping a mere man who was supposed to be shown only deep respect.:

            Yes, reverent adoration should be expressed only to God. To render worship to anyone or anything else would be a form of idolatry, which is condemned in both the Hebrew and the Greek Scriptures......Accordingly, true Christians do well to direct their worship only to Jehovah God, the Almighty. Awake! 2000 Apr 8 pp.26,27
            Bumping this post up which shows the history of the WTS with regard to worship of Jesus.
            Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heartís desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about Godís righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

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            • #21
              (Guess only those that PAY can post images?)

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Stupendousman! View Post
                (Guess only those that PAY can post images?)
                That is correct. Members who pay yearly dues to CARM are allowed to post images. Please read the rules at the top of the page, under the red MESSAGE TO ALL USERS. There is a link there to the rules page.

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                • #23
                  Heh! I guess THAT answers my question!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by HollyWood View Post

                    Yes, reverent adoration should be expressed only to God. To render worship to anyone or anything else would be a form of idolatry, which is condemned in both the Hebrew and the Greek Scriptures......Accordingly, true Christians do well to direct their worship only to Jehovah God, the Almighty. Awake! 2000 Apr 8 pp.26,27 .
                    Notice that this article doesn't differentiate between worship of 'a Trinitarian type' and whatever kind of worship the WTS was giving Jesus for all those decades before they took it out of their charter.

                    IF the worship they were giving Almighty God and Jesus Christ for all those years was of the right sort, why take it out of their charter?
                    Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heartís desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about Godís righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by HollyWood View Post

                      https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102000250

                      Notice that this article doesn't differentiate between worship of 'a Trinitarian type' and whatever kind of worship the WTS was giving Jesus for all those decades before they took it out of their charter.

                      IF the worship they were giving Almighty God and Jesus Christ for all those years was of the right sort, why take it out of their charter?
                      The Awake article referenced above, April 8, 2000, p.26,27 condemns worship of Jesus Christ as idolatry........something JWs were guilty of from the beginning of their religion in the late 1870's.


                      Holly
                      Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heartís desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about Godís righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by HollyWood View Post

                        The Awake article referenced above, April 8, 2000, p.26,27 condemns worship of Jesus Christ as idolatry........something JWs were guilty of from the beginning of their religion in the late 1870's.


                        Holly
                        The condemnation of worship of Jesus had to do with Trinitarian worship of he as 'God'(really as the 2nd person of a co-equal co-substantial Triad) which is entirely different from the 'worship' the Witnesses gave to Jesus "in the late 1870's" as they did not or ever have believed him to be that! Hence, once again, we find a clear instance of a confounding of two different meanings and hence a misleading of the unwary reader. This is inexcusable, especially in the light of posts # 8, 13, 15 and 16 which have yet to be addressed let alone refuted.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by HollyWood View Post

                          Notice that this article doesn't differentiate between worship of 'a Trinitarian type' and whatever kind of worship the WTS was giving Jesus for all those decades before they took it out of their charter.

                          IF the worship they were giving Almighty God and Jesus Christ for all those years was of the right sort, why take it out of their charter?
                          Bump
                          Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heartís desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about Godís righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

                          Comment

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