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Giving a warning

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  • Giving a warning

    When someone is in great danger from a source that they don't suspect or are being misled by those they consider their friends, is it an unkindness to warn them?

    They may prefer not to believe the warning. They may even resent it.

    But does that free one from the moral responsibility to give that warning?

    It might surprise you to know that JWs believe this is what they are doing when they insult Christians and criticize our beliefs and try to get us to join their cult. [w74 1/15 p.35]

    But when Christians try to warn JWs that the men they are following are misleading them, pointing JWs, not to anything they'd consider "apostate", but to their own religious publications which show amply evidence of the misdirection and misleading the WTS has been doing for its entire history, the Christian is ridiculed and insulted and accused of using "base" methods of discussion by showing them the so-called "spiritual food" they are receiving from the men they have been told to view as the "faithful slave" of Matthew 24:45.

    They actually consider it an "attack" to be shown WTS publications.

    To borrow an expression from my friend, Thomas. Go fig.

    But, friends, please keep up the warning to JWs. Maybe some day they'll do as I did and personally research the WTS' own publications for themselves. That's what finally freed me from this cult. I was researching a question using WTS publications exclusively and discovered they had been lying about their own history. With the new book being used in their congregation book study this year, "God's Kingdom Rules", they are continuing to be deceptive about their history which will be obvious to any JW who does their homework and researches the publications the book itself is referring to.
    Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

  • #2
    Earlier, in another thread, I had posted about a WT article that was about having a Bible but drawing the wrong conclusions from it. It was called "Accurate Knowledge Leads to Life" and went on to say that having a Bible and reading it was not enough to gain that accurate knowledge. One had to draw the right conclusions from it.

    It said, "There is a great danger, then, in drawing wrong conclusions from the Bible or letting someone else draw them for you. Trying to please God without personally taking in accurate knowledge from his Word is like taking a long journey in the dark of night without a road map and without a light."

    With this in mind, let's take a look at a teaching they say is vital to their spiritual health and their relationship with God.

    “Jesus said he would use ‘the faithful and discreet slave’ to give ‘food at the proper time’ to his domestics. That faithful slave is the channel through which Jesus is feeding his true followers in this time of the end. It is vital that we recognize the faithful slave. Our spiritual health and our relationship with God depend on this channel.” http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2013533

    Has this been the problem with this cult from its inception back in the 1870’s? They’ve always been in the dark about who the faithful slave is.

    At first their founder and leader, C.T. Russell, came to the conclusion that the faithful and discreet slave was the 144K.

    It is attributed to Russell’s wife, Marie, that Russell had come to the wrong conclusion, i.e.a conclusion that was not based on accurate knowledge of what in the Bible, and she concluded that the faithful slave was one man, Russell himself. Russell’s followers adopted that conclusion from Mrs. Russell, and current JWs acknowledge that Russell agreed with her, at least in private. I don’t know if Marie kept that conclusion; their marriage ended in divorce, so she may have abandoned the idea that her husband had been faithful in anything.

    After Russell died, his follower, Rutherford, continued with Marie’s conclusion for more than a decade, as did all the members of the WTS.

    Then Rutherford reversed himself, concluding that Russell being the faithful slave by himself was not only NOT based on accurate knowledge of scripture, but was a “violation of scripture!” For him, the accurate knowledge of the Bible demanded the conclusion that all of the 144K are the faithful and discreet slave of Matthew 24:45, thus returning to a conclusion that had been discarded some 30 years earlier when the Bible Students had allowed someone else to make the conclusion for them that Russell alone was the faithful slave. They now allowed Rutherford to return to what Russell had concluded for them years earlier.

    Russell/Rutherford’s conclusion held up through many decades of new WTS administrators until October of 2012 when the men on the WTS governing body concluded they themselves, only, were the faithful slave. It was determined by them that a wrong conclusion had been drawn for them by both Russell and Rutherford, the very men they say Jehovah had been enlightening to restore Bible truth.

    This is just one of many wrong conclusions that have been drawn for JWs by someone else (their very own leaders). It’s the conclusion they say is “vital” to their “spiritual health” and their “relationship with God.” Yet for all of their history JWs had done what their leaders had told them not to do, they had allowed someone else to draw the wrong conclusion from the Bible for them. Many JWs have lived, and died. with that wrong conclusion.
    Last edited by HollyWood; 07-24-17, 08:55 AM.
    Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

    Comment


    • #3
      Did JWs ever have the accurate knowledge about the identity of the man with the inkhorn in Ezekiel 9:4 to draw a conclusion that was not wrong? They will have to answer, "No." Even though their leaders convinced them the conclusions they had drawn for them were anywhere from "present truth" that was "imprint[ed] indelibly" in their minds, to "historic facts" and "all the facts" that 'proved' "unmistakably" that their wrong conclusion was right, even to Jehovah himself being the one who revealed those wrong conclusions to them. And even though their concluded wrongly from the Bible that, in Rutherford's words, "There is not one scripture to support the conclusion that the man with the writer's inkhorn by his side and clothed with linen pictures an individual", they began their wrong conclusions with a single individual (C.T. Russell), went clear thru 144,000 individuals, and reverted back to a single individual (this time, Jesus).

      This is all admitted in their own publications:

      2016 [w16 June, QFR, p.16-17] In the past, we have explained that in the modern-day fulfillment of this vision, the man with the secretary’s inkhorn represented the anointed remnant. … In the modern-day fulfillment, the man with the secretary’s inkhorn represents Jesus Christ, the one behind the scenes who marks those who will survive.

      Was their conclusion that the man with the inkhorn represented the anointed remnant a right conclusion? Was that conclusion accurate knowledge? WTS nows says "No." Their conclusions were wrong, they were not preaching accurate knowledge. Who had JWs let draw those wrong conclusions for them? A central, controlling, group of self-appointed men presumptuously serving wrong conclusions based not on the Bible but on their own understanding, their own opinions.
      Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Holly,
        Another grest post that reveals the continuous changes in doctrines.
        I , and many others know we are dealing with evil men in the United States, whose only wish is to inflate their files by mesns of lies and deceptive teaching, leaving JWs not only with wrong Bible interptetations but without hope.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Julio191 View Post
          Hi Holly,
          Another grest post that reveals the continuous changes in doctrines.
          I , and many others know we are dealing with evil men in the United States, whose only wish is to inflate their files by mesns of lies and deceptive teaching, leaving JWs not only with wrong Bible interptetations but without hope.
          Yes, these false teachers are pawns of satan whether they realize it or not.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Julio191 View Post
            Hi Holly,
            Another grest post that reveals the continuous changes in doctrines.
            I , and many others know we are dealing with evil men in the United States, whose only wish is to inflate their files by mesns of lies and deceptive teaching, leaving JWs not only with wrong Bible interptetations but without hope.
            Thanks, Julio. I always appreciate your perspective and the time and trouble you take to being here.

            Yes, "without hope" indeed. It's sadness itself to think of JWs putting so much faith in a "faithful slave" who has been anything but faithful. Yet they are told to cling to every word from those men as though they were listening to the word of God.
            Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Jake1254 View Post

              Yes, these false teachers are pawns of satan whether they realize it or not.
              Exactly. And satan has JWs convinced they will be returning to the condition Adam was in before he sinned, only this time without Jesus, and will continue to live for only so long as they merit it on their own righteousness. Yet their leaders give themselves the holiness of Jesus and look forward to being immortal spirits in heaven with Jesus for all eternity, while all their followers face living one sin away from annihilation in the lake of fire....forever. That's straight from the WTS publications, but the object to being reminded of what is in their own literature.
              Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by HollyWood View Post

                Exactly. And satan has JWs convinced they will be returning to the condition Adam was in before he sinned, only this time without Jesus, and will continue to live for only so long as they merit it on their own righteousness. Yet their leaders give themselves the holiness of Jesus and look forward to being immortal spirits in heaven with Jesus for all eternity, while all their followers face living one sin away from annihilation in the lake of fire....forever. That's straight from the WTS publications, but the object to being reminded of what is in their own literature.
                Let me see if I'm understanding this. JWs will live on earth but not forever? They have to earn the right to?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jake1254 View Post

                  Let me see if I'm understanding this. JWs will live on earth but not forever? They have to earn the right to?
                  That's right, Jake. JWs are taught that they will be able to attain the perfection Adam had before he sinned by studying and obeying WTS publications throughout the thousand year millennium. At the end of the thousand years they will be tested by the devil and a vast multitude of them will side with him and go out to war against other JWs. Those who don't will thereafter live or die based on their own merit, always one sin away from annihilation in the lake of fire. The only ones who are saved completely by Jesus ransom is the 144K spirit-anointed class of JW who have been going to heaven when they die ever since 1918, when the WTS says the first resurrection began. All JWs know and believe this.

                  From the 8/15/2004 wt:

                  Questions From Readers
                  After the final test at the end of the Millennium, will it be possible for humans to sin and die?

                  Two scriptures found in Revelation bear on this: “Death and Hades were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:14) “He will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”—Revelation 21:4.

                  Note the timing involved here. The hurling of “death and Hades” into the lake of fire takes place after the Armageddon survivors, the resurrected dead, and any born after Armageddon have been judged out of the “things written in the scrolls,” or Jehovah’s detailed requirements for mankind during the thousand years. (Revelation 20:12, 13) The apostle John records another vision, found in Revelation chapter 21, which will be fulfilled during the Millennial Reign of Christ Jesus. The complete fulfillment of that vision, however, awaits the end of the thousand-year Judgment Day. Jehovah will then reside with mankind in the fullest sense without any intercessors, Jesus having handed the Kingdom over to his Father. Jehovah will reside spiritually with “his peoples” in a permanent and direct way. “Death will be no more” in the complete sense when mankind will have gained perfection as a result of having the merit of Christ’s ransom sacrifice applied to the full.—Revelation 21:3, 4.

                  Thus, the death mentioned in the scriptures quoted above is the Adamic death, which will be nullified by Christ’s ransom. (Romans 5:12-21) With death that mankind inherited from the first man canceled, humans will be just like Adam when he was created. Adam was perfect, but that did not mean that there was no possibility of his dying. Jehovah told Adam not to eat from “the tree of the knowledge of good and bad” and said: “In the day you eat from it you will positively die.” (Genesis 2:17) That was death from deliberate sin. After the final test at the end of the Thousand Year Reign, humans will still be free moral agents. (Revelation 20:7-10) They will still be able to choose of their own free will whether to continue serving Jehovah or not. It cannot be said that no human will ever turn his back on God, as Adam did.

                  What would happen to the one who chose to rebel after the final test when there is no death or Hades? At that time, Adamic death is no more. And Hades, the common grave of mankind with the hope of resurrection, is no more. Still, Jehovah can annihilate any rebel in the lake of fire, denying him any hope of a resurrection. That death would be like the death that Adam and Eve experienced, not the death that humans inherited from Adam.
                  However, we have no reason to expect any such outcome. Those who pass the final test will differ from Adam in one crucial sense. They will have been fully tested. We can be confident of the thoroughness of the final test because Jehovah knows how to examine people inside and out. We can rest assured that the final test will eliminate any who would misuse their freedom of choice. Thus, although it is possible for those who pass the final test to rebel against God and hence be destroyed, it is very unlikely that such a thing will occur.
                  Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HollyWood View Post

                    That's right, Jake. JWs are taught that they will be able to attain the perfection Adam had before he sinned by studying and obeying WTS publications throughout the thousand year millennium. At the end of the thousand years they will be tested by the devil and a vast multitude of them will side with him and go out to war against other JWs. Those who don't will thereafter live or die based on their own merit, always one sin away from annihilation in the lake of fire. The only ones who are saved completely by Jesus ransom is the 144K spirit-anointed class of JW who have been going to heaven when they die ever since 1918, when the WTS says the first resurrection began. All JWs know and believe this.

                    From the 8/15/2004 wt:


                    If I were a JW I don't think I would ever sleep peacefully again. In fact, I would probably have a nervous breakdown worrying if I am going to eventually be cast into the lake of fire.

                    How can they worship a God like this?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jake1254 View Post

                      If I were a JW I don't think I would ever sleep peacefully again. In fact, I would probably have a nervous breakdown worrying if I am going to eventually be cast into the lake of fire.

                      How can they worship a God like this?
                      Believe me, JWs do have nervous breakdowns from worrying about never doing enough to save themselves.

                      Every JW has believed the one lie, and that lie is that the WTS is God's organization. They are held captive to this cult by that one concept but if they would ever do the research in the WTS' own history, they'd find that at no time would Jesus EVER have approved of their teachings as being "food in due season".

                      During the time they claim they were chosen over everyone else on the earth, they were teaching that the child born in Rev. 12 was the antichrist, Michael was the Catholic Pope, Russell alone was the faithful slave and the man with inkhorn, the great crowd was in heaven and could have communion, Jesus had returned in 1874 and the resurrection had begun in 1878. And even at that they weren't aware of his return in 1874 until 1876. All of this information is in the WTS' own literature---the literature they claim is "food in due season", from God's lips to their ears....through the "faithful slave".
                      Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by HollyWood View Post

                        Believe me, JWs do have nervous breakdowns from worrying about never doing enough to save themselves.

                        Every JW has believed the one lie, and that lie is that the WTS is God's organization. They are held captive to this cult by that one concept but if they would ever do the research in the WTS' own history, they'd find that at no time would Jesus EVER have approved of their teachings as being "food in due season".

                        During the time they claim they were chosen over everyone else on the earth, they were teaching that the child born in Rev. 12 was the antichrist, Michael was the Catholic Pope, Russell alone was the faithful slave and the man with inkhorn, the great crowd was in heaven and could have communion, Jesus had returned in 1874 and the resurrection had begun in 1878. And even at that they weren't aware of his return in 1874 until 1876. All of this information is in the WTS' own literature---the literature they claim is "food in due season", from God's lips to their ears....through the "faithful slave".
                        What do they say now about this old belief that Michael was the Catholic pope? Surely they must know today that this just was never true.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jake1254 View Post

                          If I were a JW I don't think I would ever sleep peacefully again. In fact, I would probably have a nervous breakdown worrying if I am going to eventually be cast into the lake of fire.

                          How can they worship a God like this?
                          And get this, Jake. JWs are told that Jehovah has confidence in the faith the 144K have in the ransom of Jesus so he gives them immortality as spirits in heaven when they die; but not so for anyone else. Apparently the faith all other JWs have in the ransom of Jesus isn't enough for Jehovah to do that for them. They must obey the WTS enough to continue to live based on their own merit.
                          Last edited by HollyWood; 07-24-17, 02:36 PM.
                          Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jake1254 View Post

                            What do they say now about this old belief that Michael was the Catholic pope? Surely they must know today that this just was never true.
                            Well, some on here have said "Apparently, it was the right food at the right time." I've had others say "Oh, we don't read those old books." Still others have heralded changing that belief as further proof of their being chosen by God as his sole channel of communication to mankind. I guess to the minds of the latter they think God saw a religion that was so far off-base it couldn't get much more wrong so there was a huge chance that he could steer them to "the truth"-----which has been changing ever since.

                            But generally they won't discuss what's in those older publications, even though their governing body refers to those publications over and over again.
                            Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by HollyWood View Post

                              And get this, Jake. JWs are told that Jehovah has confidence in the faith of the 144K have in the ransom of Jesus so he gives them immortality as spirits in heaven when they die; but not so for anyone else. Apparently the faith all other JWs have in the ransom of Jesus isn't enough for Jehovah to do that for them. They must obey the WTS enough to continue to live based on their own merit.
                              That's a commonality in most false religious groups in that they believe Christ's sacrifice was insufficient and they must make up for it. In their heart of hearts they must know they can never do it.

                              Comment

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