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My observations in talking with JWs

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  • Hollywood--Well you will find out the hard way. I will pray for you to come to your senses.

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    • Originally posted by kjw47 View Post
      Hollywood--Well you will find out the hard way. I will pray for you to come to your senses.
      Tell me how this works.

      The Watchtower, July 15, 2013, pg. 20: “Jesus said he would use ‘the faithful and discreet slave’ to give ‘food at the proper time’ to his domestics. That faithful slave is the channel through which Jesus is feeding his true followers in this time of the end. It is vital that we recognize the faithful slave. Our spiritual health and our relationship with God depend on this channel.” http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2013533

      According to their own words they never recognized who the faithful slave was until October of 2012.

      Has this been the problem with this cult from its inception back in the 1870’s? They’ve always been in the dark about who the faithful slave is.

      At first their founder and leader, C.T. Russell, came to the conclusion that the faithful and discreet slave was the 144K.

      It is attributed to Russell’s wife, Marie, that Russell had come to the wrong conclusion, i.e. not based on accurate knowledge of what in the Bible, and she concluded that the faithful slave was one man, Russell himself. Russell’s followers adopted that conclusion from Mrs. Russell, and current JWs acknowledge that Russell agreed with her, at least in private. I don’t know if Marie kept that conclusion; their marriage ended in divorce, so she may have abandoned the idea her husband had been faithful in anything.

      After Russell died, his follower, Rutherford, continued with Marie’s conclusion for more than a decade, as did all the members of the WTS.

      Then Rutherford reversed himself, concluding that Russell being the faithful slave by himself was not only NOT based on accurate knowledge of scripture, but was a “violation of scripture!” For him, the accurate knowledge of the Bible demanded the conclusion that all of the 144K are the faithful and discreet slave of Matthew 24:45, thus returning to a conclusion that had been discarded some 30 years earlier when the Bible Students had allowed someone else to make that conclusion for them.

      Russell/Rutherford’s conclusion held up through many decades of new WTS administrators until 2012 when the men on the WTS governing body concluded they themselves, only, were the faithful slave. It was determined by them that a wrong conclusion had been drawn for them by both Russell and Rutherford, the very men they say Jehovah had been enlightening to restore Bible truth.

      This is just one of many wrong conclusions that have been drawn for JWs by someone else (their very own leaders). It’s the conclusion they say is “vital” to their “spiritual health” and their “relationship with God.” Yet for all of their history JWs had done what their leaders had told them not to do, they had allowed someone else to draw the wrong conclusion from the Bible for them.

      kjw47, is this something you studied in all your years of studying the WTS teachings? At what point in their history of this teaching were they ever listening to Jesus?
      Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by kjw47 View Post
        Tibiasdad-- Fact--Jesus says his Father is the only true God-As does Paul-1Cor 8:6-- The teaching of a trinity is calling both of them liars. We know100% for sure Jesus taught truth and he said his Father is the only true God.( John 17:3)
        1Corinthians 15:24-28-- At the end of the thousand year reign of Jesus, he must hand back the kingdom to his God and Father and subject himself----- forever-Jesus is not God.
        Fact--EVERY true follower of Jesus, believes his words.
        Your translations are filled with error. relook while the door remains open.
        This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ. (John 17:3, NWT)

        Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. (John 17:3 NIV)

        αὕτη δέ ἐστιν ἡ αἰώνιος ζωὴ, ἵνα γινώσκωσιν σὲ τὸν μόνον ἀληθινὸν Θεὸν καὶ ὃν ἀπέστειλας Ἰησοῦν Χριστόν.
        (John 17:3, GNT)

        This now is the eternal life, that they might know you, the only true God, and the one you have sent, Jesus Christ. (Literal translation of the Greek for John 17:3)

        1) The Word "estin" means "is", identifying an objective state of being. Knowing God and Jesus Christ, is the quintessential definition of eternal life, and any other concept is not eternal life. "Estin", does not mean "means".

        2) "Only true God", is not a reference to personhood, but reality of being. It does not mean "the only person who is truly God", but rather that the person, the Father, possesses the only nature that defines what God truly is. It cannot be forced to mean that only one individual can possibly be God, but that only someone who possesses this particular nature that truly defines God is God, thus all the other false gods of the world cannot be the true God because they are not of his nature, namely, eternal in nature of being.

        3) Again, 1 John 5;20 clearly calls Jesus the only true God, and this is just as inspired and infallible as any other statement of scripture. Paul calls him God in Phil 2:6. Jesus says that he and the Father are one, that to see one is to see the other, that both are worthy of the same honor from men.

        4) Your "subjecting" argument has already been dealt with and refuted soundly, your disbelief notwithstanding.

        5) I have yet to see any exegetical evidence that your assertions are valid, just the rote memorization of your GB being regurgitated in a manner worthy of a scratched vinal record. You do not believe in the words of Jesus, but the words of the Watchtower about the words of Jesus.


        Doug
        Dare to be Gracious

        Comment


        • Tibiasdad--I understand your darkness perfectly. The twisted translations you use has caused much confusion, Enough to make Christianity a divided house( Mark 3:24-26) it will not stand. They removed Gods personal name-a great atrocity against God--So that if you read the bible with his name in place--You could see the darkness that has you and your divided house of confusion. All creation sees the mass of confusion. I promise you, any teacher out there saying you are saved or born again are tickling ears for a tithe.-They do not know.

          Comment


          • Hollywood--At the proper time means when God wills a truth revealed--not before.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by kjw47 View Post
              Hollywood--At the proper time means when God wills a truth revealed--not before.
              That isn't going to work, kjw, because you've been saying they were listening to Jesus all those years they were preaching a false identity of the faithful slave........an identity they say is VITAL to your "spiritual health and relationship with God".

              It's no wonder they've been so far from the Bible in their teachings.
              Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by kjw47 View Post
                Tibiasdad--I understand your darkness perfectly. The twisted translations you use has caused much confusion, Enough to make Christianity a divided house( Mark 3:24-26) it will not stand. They removed Gods personal name-a great atrocity against God--So that if you read the bible with his name in place--You could see the darkness that has you and your divided house of confusion. All creation sees the mass of confusion. I promise you, any teacher out there saying you are saved or born again are tickling ears for a tithe.-They do not know.
                Ad hominem remarks are the sign of a desperate argument. Jesus's name is above every other name, which means that Yahweh is his name, for there is no higher name. (Phil 2:9-10) The name of Jesus is "Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." (Isa 9:6)

                There is absolutely no evidence of the tetragammaton being used in, much less removed, from the GNT. This said, there is no doubt that the terms King of kings and Lord of lords can be none other than Yahweh, and that is the name of Jesus. (Rev 19:16)

                Mark 3:24-26 is about Satan casting out Satan, not the church or the various opinions on minor, non salvific issues. We are all united in God revealing himself as a tri-unity. All Orthodox, Fundamental, Evangelical Christians are unified in this hallmark of truth.


                Doug
                Dare to be Gracious

                Comment


                • Tibiasdad---Yes--YHVH made Jesus name above other names. Because-YHVH did it all through Jesus( Acts 2:22) And Jesus warned that the blind would not know the one who sent him on account of serving his name( Jesus) and would do things against the true followers on account of the name Jesus( thinking they are standing for it.)-John 15:20-21--

                  34,000 different truths are being taught. No unity whatsoever--they even blow each others heads off in the wars of hatred( rev war, civil war, ww1,ww2) it takes throwing Jesus away to accomplish that-1John 3:10-12

                  Comment


                  • Hollywood--You go ahead and stick to the divided house that will not stand--give her all your support.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by kjw47 View Post
                      Radvermin--Trinity translations teach 2 different gods
                      Nope, not even close. So far off you'd be kicked out of every trinitarian church as a heretic.

                      Originally posted by kjw47 View Post
                      --they are error filled--
                      You've read every translation out there to know this... I highly doubt that...

                      Originally posted by kjw47 View Post
                      1 Corinthians 8:6--There is ONE God to all-the FATHER.
                      Agreed, that fits in with trinitarian doctrine since the context shows Jesus is equal to the Father in this passage. Interesting that the context of this chapter is that there is only one God and any other god is false... and yet you believe Jesus is a god... hmmmm...

                      Originally posted by kjw47 View Post
                      see the period. It does not say one God to all, the Father, son and holy spirit.
                      That's right

                      Originally posted by kjw47 View Post
                      The capitol G God in the last line of John 1:1 is error.
                      Nope

                      Originally posted by kjw47 View Post
                      It makes the prior line read--And God was with God= impossible.
                      Nope, wrong again.



                      You should really start to listen to trinitarians because you're wasting people's time with your ignorance of what the trinity actually is.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by kjw47 View Post
                        Tibiasdad---Yes--YHVH made Jesus name above other names. Because-YHVH did it all through Jesus( Acts 2:22) And Jesus warned that the blind would not know the one who sent him on account of serving his name( Jesus) and would do things against the true followers on account of the name Jesus( thinking they are standing for it.)-John 15:20-21--

                        34,000 different truths are being taught. No unity whatsoever--they even blow each others heads off in the wars of hatred( rev war, civil war, ww1,ww2) it takes throwing Jesus away to accomplish that-1John 3:10-12
                        John 15:20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me.

                        How you got what you said from this scripture is beyond me. This has nothing to do with serving Jesus's name and not Yahweh's, nor not knowing Yahweh because of serving Jesus. The whole point of these verses is that the true Christian is persecuted by those who persecute Jesus, and the true Christian is a Christian because he believed and obeyed what he heard from Jesus; that whatever a particular hearer does in response to Jesus's message to them, they will do the same to the disciples when they speak Jesus's words to them, be it persecuting them or believing what they say.


                        Doug
                        Dare to be Gracious

                        Comment


                        • That leaves HIM out!

                          Comment


                          • "Only true God", is not a reference to personhood, but reality of being. It does not mean "the only person who is truly God", but rather that the person, the Father, possesses the only nature that defines what God truly is. It cannot be forced to mean that only one individual can possibly be God, but that only someone who possesses this particular nature that truly defines God is God, thus all the other false gods of the world cannot be the true God because they are not of his nature, namely, eternal in nature of being.

                            EDIT PER MOD, perverting what Jesus said.
                            From the "ONLY" true God, to Two Others as well...

                            It's just sickening.

                            Last edited by 4Him; 09-14-18, 06:48 PM.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Stupendousman! View Post
                              "Only true God", is not a reference to personhood, but reality of being. It does not mean "the only person who is truly God", but rather that the person, the Father, possesses the only nature that defines what God truly is. It cannot be forced to mean that only one individual can possibly be God, but that only someone who possesses this particular nature that truly defines God is God, thus all the other false gods of the world cannot be the true God because they are not of his nature, namely, eternal in nature of being.

                              EDIT PER MOD, perverting what Jesus said.
                              From the "ONLY" true God, to Two Others as well...

                              It's just sickening.
                              The only true God - The only God, in opposition to all false gods. What is said here is in opposition to idols, not to Jesus himself, who, in 1 John 5:20, is called "the true God and eternal life." (Barnes Commentary on John 17:3)

                              the only true God. But divines answer, that the term only, or alone, is not to be applied to thee,but to the term God; and the sense this: To know thee to be that God which is the only true God: and this appeareth from 1Jo 5:20, where Christ is said to be the true God, which he could not be if the Father were the only true God, considered as another from the Son. The term only, or alone, is not exclusive of the other two Persons in the Trinity, but only of idols, the gods of the heathen, which are no gods; so 1 Timothy 6:15,16, and many other Scriptures: so Matthew 11:27, where it is said, that none knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any the Father, save the Son; where the negative doth not exclude the Holy Spirit. Besides, the term alone is in Scripture observed not always to exclude all others, as Mark 6:47. Our Saviour saith, it is life eternal to know him who is the only true God, that is, it is the way to eternal life, which is an ordinary figure used in holy writ. (Matthew Henry on John 17:3)

                              μόνον, the only, the alone) The Son and Holy Spirit are not excluded by this word. Comp. μόνος, ch. John 8:9, “Jesus was left alone, and the woman.” But those meant to be excluded are the false gods, with the idolatrous worship of which the world was crowded. (Bengels Gnomen on John 17:3)

                              I have stated it, and the voices of the ages have spoken it better than I have. You have provided nothing but ad hominem rhetoric, and not a thread of evidence. God is determined by the nature of his being, and is not necessarily singular in person. Just as we are individual persons who are singularly human in nature, the Trinity is a coalition of three individuals who are a singularity in nature of being.


                              Doug
                              Dare to be Gracious

                              Comment


                              • Tibiasdad---The words of Jesus= John 20:17, Rev 3:12-- Why do you outright refuse to believe HIM over a man with a white collar on? They contradict each other--one of them is in error. it is not Jesus who is.

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