Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

something jesus said about dying that is getting to me.

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by B Student View Post

    In the parables/stories of Jesus he used knowledge that was common in the day to teach lessons. Greek mythology was common knowledge (though not everyone believed it).

    In this case, Jesus used the oft heard Greek stories regarding the underworld to teach a lesson that had truth in it; that the ultimate worth of a person before God is not related to their success or position in this world; many of the Jewish leaders fell short on faith&character and would not even change despite the resurrection, yet some of the poor and ‘ignorant’ would be chosen.

    Not all parables have to be based on real or plausible world examples or situations.

    When you say that all parables have to be based on plausible real world situations you are merely expressing an opinion. Here are your answers when I gave you examples of parables that are not based on plausible real world situations:

    1)

    Regarding (collected) treasure in heaven:



    Your interpretation turns spiritual blessings into “literal” collected ‘treasure’ (i.e. basis in physical reality), when it isn’t. Literal collected treasure is always a physical thing. However, describing something non-physical as a collected treasure is making use of a metaphor.

    It’s the metaphor you are missing/leaving out. If you say, “Love is a treasure”, you are making use of a metaphor; it isn’t literally true (like you appear to be stating above) and cannot be understood in any reasonable way without understanding the concept of metaphor.

    2)

    Here is your response regarding the parable of the wandering spirit:



    No, a person’s heart and mind are not literally swept. Sweeping a person’s insides is a non-literal metaphor that has no basis in physical reality. In this parable, the body is the house of the spirit, and he saw his home swept and put in order and went back to live inside the body. Taken literally, that is not a plausible storey – it's important to understand this parable non-literally as a metaphor on a deeper level rather than taking doctrine from the plain words of the storey.

    3)

    Here is your response to the metaphor of ‘sleeping in the grave’



    Right, so sleeping in the grave has no basis in physical reality. Agreed; it is a metaphor that never happens since people never literally sleep in the grave. Doesn’t that overturn your argument that all parables/metaphors used by Jesus need to have a plausible basis in reality?

    4)

    Regarding the parable of the lamp, I don’t think I read a real response other than a reference to other parables. The eye as a lamp that lights all the insides of your body has no basis in physical reality. Physical light shining through your eye and lighting up the inner corners of your body is not plausible.

    5)

    Regarding the parable God used in Ezekiel 17 God is clearly using an implausible storey to teach truth that has no basis in physical reality. Clearly that is an acceptable approach to teaching and nobody would accuse God of spreading mistruth. If somebody began teaching that plants have preferences for certain birds over others on the basis of this parable then they would be missing the deeper lesson being taught and they would be instead focusing on the plain narrative of the storey which was not intended to be used for doctrine.

    As for the parable of Lazarus, you’re simply stating a personal opinion (i.e. the plain words of all parables must be based in reality or plausibly so) as though it were a fact. There are numerous cases of parables and metaphors that are not based in any sort of plausible reality.

    Furthermore, the truth Jesus was trying to get at in his parables was not the primary storey but rather the deeper meaning. It was those who were in darkness who tended to understand him on the primary level i.e. the plain words of the narrative (Mat 13:10,11). It’s a shame so many Christians today have decided to focus on the plain primary storey of the parable of Lazarus and derive their core doctrine from that.
    I'm going to bump BS's post so that nonJWs and their apologists can review these questions. Hopefully the Holy Spirit will guide them into all the truth as they study the Bible for the answers.

    Comment


    • #47
      Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.


      Holly
      Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heartís desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about Godís righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

      Comment

      Working...
      X