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Really scratching my head about this one.please help.:(

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  • Really scratching my head about this one.please help.:(

    In genesis 25:8 it says abraham became a ghost and was gathered to his people.

    Who was he gathered to?

    I think the answer is in:

    Matthew 8:11 King James Version (KJV)

    Also it talks about heaven and hell with abraham in the book of luke too:

    Luke 16:19-31 King James Version (KJV)

    How do you explain all of this?I think matthew 8:1 and luke 16:19-31 are both parables.But can they be based on real things too?

    Like in:
    Matthew 13:24-30 King James Version (KJV)? In the parable of the tares?

    And Matthew 13:36-43 King James Version (KJV)?

  • #2
    How does this go with ecclesiastes 9:5?


    • #3
      Originally posted by Batman lover View Post
      In genesis 25:8 it says abraham became a ghost and was gathered to his people.

      Who was he gathered to?
      The "Rightous dead" who'd died in faith before him.

      Heaven wasn't an option yet, and so "Sheol" was where the souls of the dead went - awaiting their eternal fate .

      Sheol is seen as a place with two realms: "Paradise", where Abraham went awaiting hie final promised redemption, and HELL where the unrighteous dead wound up. That all comes from a passage in LUKE 16:19-31.

      I think the answer is in: Matthew 8:11
      Nope - that's prophetically later. Abraham wasn't IN Heaven in Matthew - since there was no Release from SIN - yet.

      Luke 16:19-31 King James Version (KJV)
      Which is where we get the concept of a two realm "place of the dead" - i.e. paradise and HELL. The HELL realm still exists, whereas the PARADISE side is empty, since the Cross.


      • #4
        Originally posted by Batman lover View Post
        How does this go with ecclesiastes 9:5?
        Bible students are often baffled as to why Solomon's remarks in the book of Ecclesiastes sometimes contradict Jesus' teachings in the New Testament. Well; the answer to that is actually pretty simple.

        Solomon wasn't inspired to record his observations from the perspective of an enlightened man who's privy to knowledge beyond the scope of empirical evidence and human experience; rather, from the perspective of a man under the sun; viz: a down to earth thinking man whose perception of reality is moderated by what he can see for himself going on around him in the physical universe; which of course results in an evaluation of life on earth as seen from the earth rather than an evaluation of life on earth as seen from heaven.

        In other words: Ecclesiastes is one man's world view-- his personal philosophy of life --rather than a book of either history, revelation, or prophecy; and it's loaded with pessimism; which is basically a mindset inclined to dwell on the negative in human experience rather than the positive. For example:

        "You only go around once, so do it with all the gusto you can get!"

        That was a Schlitz beer advertisement some years ago. It's worldly wisdom thru and thru rather than heavenly. Compare it to a couple of Solomon's remarks:

        . Ecc 9:5 . . The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all

        . Ecc 9:10 . . All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place to which you are going.

        That wisdom is Schlitz beer wisdom thru and thru.

        Solomon was a very wise man; in point of fact, he was the brightest intellectual of his day. But Solomon's knowledge and experience were limited. He didn't know everything there is to know, nor had he seen everything there is to see, nor been everywhere there is to go.

        . Matt 12:42 . .The queen of the south will be raised up in the judgment with this generation and will condemn it; because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, but, look! something more than Solomon is here.

        In other words; Jesus' wisdom trumps Solomon's.

        . John 1:1-3 . . In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. This one was in the beginning with God. All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

        . Col 2:3 . . Carefully concealed in him are all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge.

        And Jesus comes highly recommended too.

        . Matt 12:5 . . This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved; listen to him.

        So then, when encountering remarks in the book of Ecclesiastes that are out of step with Jesus' teachings in the New Testament, my unsolicited spiritual counseling is: go with "my Son".

        . John 8:12 . . I am the light of the world. He that follows me will by no means walk in darkness, but will possess the light of life.