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Please explain the so-called "perfect indefinite tense" which does not exist in any G

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  • Please explain the so-called "perfect indefinite tense" which does not exist in any G

    Please explain the so-called "perfect indefinite tense" which does not exist in any Greek Grammar that I have read to date.
    Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah].

  • #2
    bump
    Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah].

    Comment


    • #3
      Who has ever said there has been or is?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post
        Please explain the so-called "perfect indefinite tense" which does not exist in any Greek Grammar that I have read to date.
        The footnote in the 1969 purple-cover edition of the KIT states that the "I have been" is "properly rendered in the perfect tense." However, in the l985 (sic) Navy-Blue-cover edition, the footnote states that "I have been" is "properly translated by the perfect indicative" (tense).


        You will find discussions about this at http://www.************/bgreek/archiv...bject.html#244

        “Before Abraham came into existence, I have been” The WT’s footnote to John 8:58 gave, consecutively, three different grammatical rules as basis for this “have been” rendering. In fact, the footnote in the KIT’s 1969 edition says, “properly rendered in the perfect tense”, while the KIT’s 1985 edition says, “properly translated by the perfect indicative”! And earlier explanations, like “perfect indefinite tense” in the 1950 edition, have been discarded. The correct rendering is “I AM”. Compare Exodus 3:14.
        http://www.soundwitness.org/jw/KIT_part2.htm
        Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah].

        Comment


        • #5
          Your question was you could not find any in Greek grammar book the existence of the "perfect indefinite tense."

          Yet you quote the footnotes re John 8.58 from the KIT (of both 1969 and 1985 editions) that does not say the "perfect indefinite tense" is a Greek tense!

          Hence I have to ask you again: Who has ever said there was or is a "perfect indefinite tense" in the Greek?

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          • #6
            Addition: You quote a source that mentions correctly the footnote in the NWT of 1950 says "perfect indefinite tense."

            But once again this was not said to be a Greek tense.

            Hence my question remains: Who has ever said there was or is a "perfect indefinite tense" in the Greek?
            Last edited by barneyman3; 07-30-16, 11:37 AM.

            Comment


            • Daniel Marsh
              Daniel Marsh commented
              Editing a comment
              Your Kingdom Interlinear of that year which I now see has been discarded or as some would say suppressed :-)

              Since, those that proof read that edition were your Greek Scholars, I do not see why they could miss such a salient error?

          • #7
            Bump for OP'er

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            • #8
              scroll up, it came from the Watchtower scholars. :_)
              Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah].

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post
                scroll up, it came from the Watchtower scholars. :_)
                No, but rather you have been misled by others who stated they, the NWTTC,, said there was. It is an English tense and any one who can read the footnote from the 1950 NWT footnote to John 8.58 could and should see this. So, the question is; Why have you not?

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                • #10
                  Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post
                  Your Kingdom Interlinear of that year which I now see has been discarded or as some would say suppressed :-)

                  Since, those that proof read that edition were your Greek Scholars, I do not see why they could miss such a salient error?
                  Rather, I can not see why you could so misread and or misunderstand simple English, in this case, the 1950 NWT footnote to the translation of EGW EIMI. It, the "perfect indefinite tense" is not said, I repeat, NOT said to be a Greek tense. Look again at what you quoted and this time READ IT CAREFULLY.
                  Last edited by barneyman3; 08-27-16, 11:52 AM.

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                  • #11
                    Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post
                    Please explain the so-called "perfect indefinite tense" which does not exist in any Greek Grammar that I have read to date.
                    Hi Daniel,

                    The WTS error in translating John 8:58 becomes obvious when they translated the English NWT into Greek. "I have been" doesn't translate back into the "ego eimi" it was translated from.

                    This is from the NWT in Greek at their website:
                    Ο Ιησούς τούς είπε: «Αληθινά, αληθινά σας λέω: Πριν ο Αβραάμ έρθει σε ύπαρξη, εγώ υπάρχω».
                    Notice it has "εγώ υπάρχω" and not "εγώ είμι".

                    https://www.jw.org/el/%CE%B5%CE%BA%C...CE%B7%CF%82/8/
                    Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by barneyman3 View Post

                      Rather, I can not see why you could so misread and or misunderstand simple English, in this case, the 1950 NWT footnote to the translation of EGW EIMI. It, the "perfect indefinite tense" is not said, I repeat, NOT said to be a Greek tense. Look again at what you quoted and this time READ IT CAREFULLY.
                      I own a copy and it is there :-) The cover is Green --- I am color bind.
                      Deuteronomy 6:4. Hear, O Israel: The LORD [Jehovah] your God [Elohim] is one LORD [Jehovah].

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by Daniel Marsh View Post

                        I own a copy and it is there :-) The cover is Green --- I am color bind.
                        You may well be colour blind but that fact will not explain why you have misunderstood the footnote you mistakenly think says any thing about a Greek tense. What is it about the word there in the footnote, "rendered" you do not understand?
                        Last edited by barneyman3; 08-29-16, 12:56 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          Originally posted by HollyWood View Post

                          Hi Daniel,

                          The WTS error in translating John 8:58 becomes obvious when they translated the English NWT into Greek. "I have been" doesn't translate back into the "ego eimi" it was translated from.

                          This is from the NWT in Greek at their website:
                          Ο Ιησούς τούς είπε: «Αληθινά, αληθινά σας λέω: Πριν ο Αβραάμ έρθει σε ύπαρξη, εγώ υπάρχω».
                          Notice it has "εγώ υπάρχω" and not "εγώ είμι".

                          https://www.jw.org/el/%CE%B5%CE%BA%C...CE%B7%CF%82/8/
                          As it is a translation of a translation then of course it will not, as it need not, replicate the words, grammar or syntax of the original. Check out John 15.27 where the plural forms of EGW EIMI in the original autographs of the NT occur but is not replicated in the NWT Greek translation. The remit of the NWT Greek version was to accurately translate the NWT in English. Does it at John 8.58? Yes, as it does any where else you care to look at each. Your premise is then false and hence your conclusion wrong. No change with you then Holly as its typical of the errors you continously make out of ignorance in regards to translation and methods of.

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Originally posted by barneyman3 View Post

                            As it is a translation of a translation then of course it will not, as it need not, replicate the words, grammar or syntax of the original. Check out John 15.27 where the plural forms of EGW EIMI in the original autographs of the NT occur but is not replicated in the NWT Greek translation. The remit of the NWT Greek version was to accurately translate the NWT in English. Does it at John 8.58? Yes, as it does any where else you care to look at each. Your premise is then false and hence your conclusion wrong. No change with you then Holly as its typical of the errors you continously make out of ignorance in regards to translation and methods of.
                            You're making my point for me, Barney. The NWT translated from English to Greek at John 15:27 does translate back into the Greek it was translated from, which it should do at John 8:58---but doesn't.

                            No change with you, Barney, as it's typical of you to resort to slander and personal insults as the foundation of your discussions.
                            Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God’s righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

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