Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

Edited to add more information for posters:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

The Apostle Peter's Warning to Mormons:

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The Apostle Peter's Warning to Mormons:

    These verses from 2 Peter, 2, seem to speak direclty to Mormonism:
    2 Peter 2



    1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

    (My comment: Joseph Smith brought on himself swift destruction)

    2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

    (My comment: Yes, Christianity's creeds are an abomination according to the LDS, although we must allow for the fact that Mormons borrowed anti-creedalism from Alexander Campbell)

    3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

    4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

    (My comment: a thorough reading here will demonstrate that angels are distinct from men - regardless of Smith's Swedenborgian belief that men become angels)

    5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

    6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

    7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

    8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds

    9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

    (My comment: Notice, no spirit prison in view here, God reserves the UNJUST for punishment, not necromantic baptisms)

    10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

    (My comment: Smith and his followers did walk in the lusts of the flesh, polygamy, and they hated the U.S. government enough to take an oath of revenge against it in their temples)

    11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

    (My comment: Angels are not men - isn't it obvious?)

    12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

    (My comment: And so we've seen on CARM - Mormons tell us Christianity is apostate, but don't even know what Christians teach, nor do their leaders)

    13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness....................."

    (My comment: And that is one reason we must sound the alarm - maybe some Mormon will repent and come to Christ before it's too late)
    Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

  • #2
    Uh, I have a question. Since you believe that Mormonism is an amazingly well-done counterfeit of Christianity--so close that only trained "experts" like yourself * can tell the difference--then how can your assertion that " Mormons ... don't even know what Christians teach, nor do their leaders"have any possibility of being a true statement?
    "PWCSLWRTIMSL"="PeopleWhoCSLewisWasReferringToInMy SignatureLine"
    ..whenever a person's religious conversation dwells..even frequently on the faults of other people's religions, he is in a bad condition-C.S. Lewis

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by NRA-Jeff View Post
      Uh, I have a question. Since you believe that Mormonism is an amazingly well-done counterfeit of Christianity--so close that only trained "experts" like yourself * can tell the difference--then how can your assertion that " Mormons ... don't even know what Christians teach, nor do their leaders"have any possibility of being a true statement?
      Mormons exhibit this daily here in this forum when they teach we believe God the Father and Jesus are the same person . They also teach when Jesus said the Father was greater than him that is a contradiction of the Trinity Doctrine . I could go on and on what they say we teach that is not remotely close to are teachings
      The Easton Bible Dictionary, clearly tells us what the Trinity teaches



      Trinity
      first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168 A.D. - 183 A.D.), or from the Lat. trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220 A.D.), to express this doctrine. The propositions involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deut 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isa 44:6; Mark 12:29,32; John 10:30). 2. That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona, suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.

      (from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)


      Homoousios -God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- Being –Nature [ all Synonyms ]



      One being. Three persons. In other words, one "what" and three "who"s. There is one being, God. There are three persons: God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The distinction is between being and person. One being, three persons. One what, three who's.



      John Ankerberg [Everything You Ever Wanted to know about Mormonism]

      Page 104-105

      1. There is Only One God

      2. The Father is God;

      3. Jesus Christ, the Son, is God

      4. The Holy Spirit is a Person, is eternal and is therefore God

      5. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are distinct persons.


      The Book of Mormon writer proclaims this teaching


      2 Nephi 31:

      21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.



      Alma 11:

      44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.





      Mormon 7:

      7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.



      The Testimony of Three Witnesses

      And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.

      Oliver Cowdery

      David Whitmer

      Martin Harris



      1 Nephi 13: 41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.

      President Charles W. Penrose, admits the Trinity is the paramount and fullness of the Gospel found in the Book of Mormon


      Answers to Gospel Questions Vol. 3 pp 98-99 under Counsel given by President Charles W. Penrose


      Now, some of our brethren have taken up quite a discussion as to the fulness of the everlasting gospel. We are told that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, that those who like to get up a dispute, say that the Book of Mormon does not contain any reference to the work of salvation for the dead, and that there are many other things pertaining to the gospel that are not developed in that book, and yet we are told that the book contains "the fullness of the everlasting gospel." well what is the fulnesspel? You read carefully the revelation in regard to the three glories, section 76, in the Doctrine and Covenants, and you find there defined what the gospel is, There God the Eternal Father, and Jesus Christ, his son, and the Holy Ghost, are held up as the three persons in the Trinity-the one God the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, all three being one God. When people believe in that doctrine and obey the ordinances which are spoken of in the same list of principals, you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason:


      General Conference Report, April 1922, pp 27-28.

      Notice that it admits no unique Mormon teachings in the Book of Mormon


      And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post

        Mormons exhibit this daily here in this forum when they teach we believe God the Father and Jesus are the same person . They also teach when Jesus said the Father was greater than him that is a contradiction of the Trinity Doctrine . I could go on and on what they say we teach that is not remotely close to are teachings
        The Easton Bible Dictionary, clearly tells us what the Trinity teaches



        Trinity
        first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168 A.D. - 183 A.D.), or from the Lat. trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220 A.D.), to express this doctrine. The propositions involved in the doctrine are these: 1. That God is one, and that there is but one God (Deut 6:4; 1 Kings 8:60; Isa 44:6; Mark 12:29,32; John 10:30). 2. That the Father is a distinct divine Person (hypostasis, subsistentia, persona, suppositum intellectuale), distinct from the Son and the Holy Spirit. 3. That Jesus Christ was truly God, and yet was a Person distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. 4. That the Holy Spirit is also a distinct divine Person.

        (from Easton's Bible Dictionary, PC Study Bible formatted electronic database Copyright © 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)


        Homoousios -God- Godhead- Substance- Essence- Being –Nature [ all Synonyms ]



        One being. Three persons. In other words, one "what" and three "who"s. There is one being, God. There are three persons: God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The distinction is between being and person. One being, three persons. One what, three who's.



        John Ankerberg [Everything You Ever Wanted to know about Mormonism]

        Page 104-105

        1. There is Only One God

        2. The Father is God;

        3. Jesus Christ, the Son, is God

        4. The Holy Spirit is a Person, is eternal and is therefore God

        5. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are distinct persons.


        The Book of Mormon writer proclaims this teaching


        2 Nephi 31:

        21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.



        Alma 11:

        44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.





        Mormon 7:

        7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.



        The Testimony of Three Witnesses

        And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.

        Oliver Cowdery

        David Whitmer

        Martin Harris



        1 Nephi 13: 41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.

        President Charles W. Penrose, admits the Trinity is the paramount and fullness of the Gospel found in the Book of Mormon


        Answers to Gospel Questions Vol. 3 pp 98-99 under Counsel given by President Charles W. Penrose


        Now, some of our brethren have taken up quite a discussion as to the fulness of the everlasting gospel. We are told that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, that those who like to get up a dispute, say that the Book of Mormon does not contain any reference to the work of salvation for the dead, and that there are many other things pertaining to the gospel that are not developed in that book, and yet we are told that the book contains "the fullness of the everlasting gospel." well what is the fulnesspel? You read carefully the revelation in regard to the three glories, section 76, in the Doctrine and Covenants, and you find there defined what the gospel is, There God the Eternal Father, and Jesus Christ, his son, and the Holy Ghost, are held up as the three persons in the Trinity-the one God the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, all three being one God. When people believe in that doctrine and obey the ordinances which are spoken of in the same list of principals, you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason:


        General Conference Report, April 1922, pp 27-28.

        Notice that it admits no unique Mormon teachings in the Book of Mormon

        Thank you, Ivanhoe. I think you should write a little book on this subject. You are such an expert on the issue, really. Mormons are totally blinded when it comes to the doctrine of the Holy Trinity, and even their leaders (who are supposed to be educated in the field) don't understand that God is ONE Tripersonal Being - which is taught in both the Bible and the Book of Mormon. One wonders whether Mormons CANNOT or WILL NOT at least try to understand the Trinity instead of daily trying to misrepresent what Christians believe.
        Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post
          Mormons exhibit this daily here in this forum ...
          Uh, WHICH of her self-contradicting accusations are you saying Mormons exhibit daily on this forum?

          a) Her accusation that Mormonism is an amazingly close counterfeit of Christianity; or

          b) Her accusation that Mormons don't know anything about Christianity

          ????

          ...they teach we believe God the Father and Jesus are the same person .
          How many Mormons make that claim daily on this forum? Heck, how many have EVER made that claim on this forum?
          "PWCSLWRTIMSL"="PeopleWhoCSLewisWasReferringToInMy SignatureLine"
          ..whenever a person's religious conversation dwells..even frequently on the faults of other people's religions, he is in a bad condition-C.S. Lewis

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by NRA-Jeff View Post
            Uh, WHICH of her self-contradicting accusations are you saying Mormons exhibit daily on this forum?

            a) Her accusation that Mormonism is an amazingly close counterfeit of Christianity; or

            b) Her accusation that Mormons don't know anything about Christianity

            ????



            How many Mormons make that claim daily on this forum? Heck, how many have EVER made that claim on this forum?
            There is a constant drum beat we teach God The Father and Jesus are the same person when the Opposite is true

            This link below proves it comes from LDS leadership

            https://www.lds.org/general-conferen...-sent?lang=eng
            And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post

              There is a constant drum beat we teach God The Father and Jesus are the same person when the Opposite is true

              This link below proves it comes from LDS leadership

              https://www.lds.org/general-conferen...-sent?lang=eng
              Thank you Ivanhoe. At least there might be some viewing CARM who will see the truth.
              Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
                These verses from 2 Peter, 2, seem to speak direclty to Mormonism:
                2 Peter 2



                1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

                (My comment: Joseph Smith brought on himself swift destruction)

                2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

                (My comment: Yes, Christianity's creeds are an abomination according to the LDS, although we must allow for the fact that Mormons borrowed anti-creedalism from Alexander Campbell)

                3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

                4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

                (My comment: a thorough reading here will demonstrate that angels are distinct from men - regardless of Smith's Swedenborgian belief that men become angels)

                5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

                6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

                7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

                8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds

                9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

                (My comment: Notice, no spirit prison in view here, God reserves the UNJUST for punishment, not necromantic baptisms)

                10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

                (My comment: Smith and his followers did walk in the lusts of the flesh, polygamy, and they hated the U.S. government enough to take an oath of revenge against it in their temples)

                11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

                (My comment: Angels are not men - isn't it obvious?)

                12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

                (My comment: And so we've seen on CARM - Mormons tell us Christianity is apostate, but don't even know what Christians teach, nor do their leaders)

                13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness....................."

                (My comment: And that is one reason we must sound the alarm - maybe some Mormon will repent and come to Christ before it's too late)
                Good post, especially regarding Peter's acknowledgment of pre-Adamic ranks of divine angelic beings (vss 4 & 11). However, your last line was the best. Perhaps some searching Mormon will come to their senses and repent. Thousands already have done so!
                "You have just constructed a straw man so large you could burn it in the desert and hold an annoying festival around it"


                "One's personal world view can be so powerful that it blinds them to any evidence that contradicts it"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post
                  There is a constant drum beat we teach God The Father and Jesus are the same person when the Opposite is true
                  This link below proves it comes from LDS leadership

                  ....
                  But that's not what you accused in your previous post. You are moving goalposts, twisting definitions. THIS is what you need to defend:

                  Mormons exhibit this daily here in this forum ...
                  I bet you can't quote any Mormons asserting what you're accusing us of asserting, even ONE time this MONTH, let alone daily.

                  Come on, back up one of your accusations against us with some evidence, for once.
                  "PWCSLWRTIMSL"="PeopleWhoCSLewisWasReferringToInMy SignatureLine"
                  ..whenever a person's religious conversation dwells..even frequently on the faults of other people's religions, he is in a bad condition-C.S. Lewis

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NRA-Jeff View Post

                    But that's not what you accused in your previous post. You are moving goalposts, twisting definitions. THIS is what you need to defend:



                    I bet you can't quote any Mormons asserting what you're accusing us of asserting, even ONE time this MONTH, let alone daily.

                    Come on, back up one of your accusations against us with some evidence, for once.
                    This is where they get this straw man teaching

                    In Marvelous Work and A Wonder, Le Grand Richards Page 18 under the heading John’s Testimony of the Personality of God Says “This accords also with the report of John’s baptism of Jesus: 16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Here each of the three members of the Godhead are distinctly and separately mentioned; (1) Jesus coming up out of the water; (2) the Holy Ghost descending like a dove; (3) the voice of the Father from heaven expressing his love and approval of his beloved Son. How could one possibly believe these three to be one person without body or form?




                    President Gordon B. Hinckley explained why he also could not believe in the Trinity: The world wrestles with the question of who God is, and in what form He is found. Some say that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are one. I wonder how they ever arrive at that. How could Jesus have prayed to Himself when he uttered the Lord’s Prayer? How could He have net with Himself when He was on the Mount of Transfiguration? No. He is a separate being. God, our Father, is one. Jesus Christ is two. The Holy Ghost is three. And these three are united in purpose and in working together to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.’ ONE GOD The above comments are clearly antithetical



                    James Talmage states: “This [the Trinity] cannot rationally be construed to mean that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are one in substance and person” (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.40)



                    1. Hugh B. Brown, The Abundant Life, p.313 Surely this was not ventriloquism where Christ was speaking to and of himself. It was the Father introducing His Son. In this case, the members of the Holy Trinity manifested themselves, each in a different way, and each was distinct from the others. A similar event occurred on the Mount of Transfiguration when members of the Godhead were distinguished in the presence of Moses and Elias, and Peter, James, and John.



                    What’s interesting about all these statements is that Le Grand Richards, Gordon B. Hinckley, James Talmage, Hugh B. Brown and other leaders like Robert Hales and Jeffrey R Holland lie about is the Orthodox view of the Godhead and pin modalism to Orthodox Christianity and our belief of the Trinity.
                    And inasmuch as mine enemies come against you ... ye shall curse them; And whomsoever ye curse, I will curse, and ye shall avenge me of mine enemies (Doctrine and Covenants, 103:24-25)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Catherine Aurelia;n4571292]These verses from 2 Peter, 2, seem to speak direclty to Mormonism:
                      2 Peter 2



                      1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

                      (My comment: Joseph Smith brought on himself swift destruction)

                      And the false teachers murdered him... that is a fact...

                      2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

                      (My comment: Yes, Christianity's creeds are an abomination according to the LDS, although we must allow for the fact that Mormons borrowed anti-creedalism from Alexander Campbell)

                      False, please source your comments and show us your proof ... words are cheap, but facts will outshine them everyday...




                      3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

                      4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

                      (My comment: a thorough reading here will demonstrate that angels are distinct from men - regardless of Smith's Swedenborgian belief that men become angels)

                      Some of the Father's spirit children "kept not their first estate" Rev. 12:3-9 , and, as Peter explained, "God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell" . These are angels to the devil. Thus, Satan and those who chose to follow him are sometimes referred to as angels 2 Cor. 11:14-15; 2 Ne.2:17;; see also First Estate: War in Heaven... LDS.org




                      5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

                      6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

                      7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

                      8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds

                      9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

                      (My comment: Notice, no spirit prison in view here, God reserves the UNJUST for punishment, not necromantic baptisms)


                      "Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?" 1 Cor. 15:29



                      10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

                      (My comment: Smith and his followers did walk in the lusts of the flesh, polygamy, and they hated the U.S. government enough to take an oath of revenge against it in their temples)

                      Source it in context CA....
                      It is likely that there was an oath that asked members to pray that God would avenge the blood of the prophets

                      Until 1927 the temple endowment very likely contained such an oath. The exact wording is not entirely clear, but it appears that it did not call on the Saints themselves to take vengeance on the United States, but that they would continue to pray that God himself might avenge the blood of the prophets.

                      Although the Oath of Vengeance contains no curses like those in the imprecatory psalms, like the psalmists, the Saints apparently had the wisdom to take directly to God their strong feelings in response to the injustices they had been dealt. By doing so, they turned over to Him the responsibility for both justice and healing.

                      In nearly every ************ discussion of the temple, critics raise the issue of the "oath of vengeance" that existed during the 19th century and very early 20th century. These critics often misstate the nature of the oath and try to use its presence in the early temple endowment as evidence that the LDS temple ceremonies are ungodly, violent, and immoral.

                      FairMormon


                      11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

                      (My comment: Angels are not men - isn't it obvious?)

                      Only Christian still believe in Angels with wings... chuckle.



                      12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

                      (My comment: And so we've seen on CARM - Mormons tell us Christianity is apostate, but don't even know what Christians teach, nor do their leaders)

                      13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness....................."

                      (My comment: And that is one reason we must sound the alarm - maybe some Mormon will repent and come to Christ before it's too late)
                      [/QUOTE]

                      Well that would be fine minus the mocking and ridiculing of some ******* here...
                      A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards. Proverbs

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        But that's not what you accused in your previous post. You are moving goalposts, twisting definitions. THIS is what you need to defend:

                        Mormons exhibit this daily here in this forum ...
                        I bet you can't quote any Mormons asserting what you're accusing us of asserting, even ONE time this MONTH, let alone daily.

                        Where is the "plethora of evidence" you promised? You couldn't even come with ONE of us in this forum, ONE time, saying what you claim we say DAILY.

                        What's the problem? Why no evidence supporting your accusation against us?


                        Is this the best that extremist anti-LDSism can do to in the credibility dept."
                        "PWCSLWRTIMSL"="PeopleWhoCSLewisWasReferringToInMy SignatureLine"
                        ..whenever a person's religious conversation dwells..even frequently on the faults of other people's religions, he is in a bad condition-C.S. Lewis

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NRA-Jeff View Post
                          But that's not what you accused in your previous post. You are moving goalposts, twisting definitions. THIS is what you need to defend:


                          I bet you can't quote any Mormons asserting what you're accusing us of asserting, even ONE time this MONTH, let alone daily.

                          Where is the "plethora of evidence" you promised? You couldn't even come with ONE of us in this forum, ONE time, saying what you claim we say DAILY.

                          What's the problem? Why no evidence supporting your accusation against us?


                          Is this the best that extremist anti-LDSism can do to in the credibility dept."
                          Mormons here deny the Lord Jesus Christ everyday on this forum by propagating the lies of their real "savior," Joseph Smith, who taught you that you will become a god. Can't you see the hand of Satan in that LIE? Repent, come to Christ, and live..............otherwise, all a Mormon has to look forward to is darkness and death.
                          Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ralf View Post
                            Catherine Aurelia;n4571292]These verses from 2 Peter, 2, seem to speak direclty to Mormonism:
                            2 Peter 2



                            1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

                            (My comment: Joseph Smith brought on himself swift destruction)

                            And the false teachers murdered him... that is a fact...

                            2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

                            (My comment: Yes, Christianity's creeds are an abomination according to the LDS, although we must allow for the fact that Mormons borrowed anti-creedalism from Alexander Campbell)

                            False, please source your comments and show us your proof ... words are cheap, but facts will outshine them everyday...




                            3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

                            4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

                            (My comment: a thorough reading here will demonstrate that angels are distinct from men - regardless of Smith's Swedenborgian belief that men become angels)

                            Some of the Father's spirit children "kept not their first estate" Rev. 12:3-9 , and, as Peter explained, "God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell" . These are angels to the devil. Thus, Satan and those who chose to follow him are sometimes referred to as angels 2 Cor. 11:14-15; 2 Ne.2:17;; see also First Estate: War in Heaven... LDS.org




                            5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

                            6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

                            7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

                            8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds

                            9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

                            (My comment: Notice, no spirit prison in view here, God reserves the UNJUST for punishment, not necromantic baptisms)


                            "Otherwise, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why then are they baptized for them?" 1 Cor. 15:29



                            10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

                            (My comment: Smith and his followers did walk in the lusts of the flesh, polygamy, and they hated the U.S. government enough to take an oath of revenge against it in their temples)

                            Source it in context CA....

                            11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.

                            (My comment: Angels are not men - isn't it obvious?)

                            Only Christian still believe in Angels with wings... chuckle.



                            12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

                            (My comment: And so we've seen on CARM - Mormons tell us Christianity is apostate, but don't even know what Christians teach, nor do their leaders)

                            13 And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness....................."

                            (My comment: And that is one reason we must sound the alarm - maybe some Mormon will repent and come to Christ before it's too late)
                            Well that would be fine minus the mocking and ridiculing of some ******* here... [/QUOTE]

                            The only ******* here are Mormons who deny Christ and make him the brother of Satan. Such evil is beyond the comprehension of Christians.
                            Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
                              Mormons here deny the Lord Jesus Christ everyday on this forum...
                              Perhaps you "forgot" what Ivanhoe's accusation was. Here, let me help your apparent temporary memory loss:


                              Originally posted by Ivanhoe View Post
                              Mormons exhibit this daily here in this forum ...
                              Me: Uh, WHICH of her self-contradicting accusations are you saying Mormons exhibit daily on this forum?

                              a) Her accusation that Mormonism is an amazingly close counterfeit of Christianity; or

                              b) Her accusation that Mormons don't know anything about Christanity

                              ????


                              (Here is the part you were supposed to remember before responding)
                              ...they teach we believe God the Father and Jesus are the same person .
                              Me: How many Mormons make that claim daily on this forum? Heck, how many have EVER made that claim on this forum?


                              You might notice that Ivanhoe has not provided even ONE quote in support of his accusation. Why do you think he taking so long to come up with that evidence??/


                              a) He is, at this very moment, busily compiling research that will support his accusation against LDS people and he will post it all before the day is through;

                              b) He has nothing because there is nothing to his accusation.
                              "PWCSLWRTIMSL"="PeopleWhoCSLewisWasReferringToInMy SignatureLine"
                              ..whenever a person's religious conversation dwells..even frequently on the faults of other people's religions, he is in a bad condition-C.S. Lewis

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X