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Countering Illogic of Mormons

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  • Originally posted by Father_JD View Post
    In James 1:5, we are encouraged to pray for WISDOM when confronted with adverse situation because of being a Christian...in Deuteronomy, we are INSTRUCTED to TEST wanna-be prophets...and by extension, wanna-be "holy scripture"...in Acts, we are shown the WISDOM of the Bereans in TESTING the apostles' message by "examining scripture to see if those things were so"

    Funny, not ONCE is prayer recommended for determining propositional truth...and lastly, many have prayed out of ignorance not knowing this, and yet, they were told the BOM was BOGUS...guess they weren't "sincere" enough, huh, Ralf?? Hmmmmm...chuckle!!
    If you are now convinced that such a prayer is illicit then why do you give credence to the answer you think you got? If the prayer is illicit then would not the respondent be the devil?

    If the prayer and the answer is to be credited, then how can you say that we are not to pray for such things? If praying for such things results in us receiving them then obviously it is efficacious to make such prayers.

    One way or another your theology is false.

    Comment


    • [QUOTE=dberrie2000;n5018546]

      Such as?



      As we went over a number of times--I can show numerous things in the Biblical NT--which is to be found nowhere in the Biblical OT.
      So can I. But the last time I checked, the NT is part of the Bible. And that was NOT the question I actually asked.

      So--the traditional Jews of the NT could have well asked the same question of the NT apostles--where do we find these doctrines in the scriptures? Where do we find repentance and water baptism for the remission of sins? The Gift of the Holy Ghost? The name of Jesus Christ--in the OT scriptures?
      Ah, what I see here with you is this:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMJvqBq_Qa8

      "Answering the questions that should have been asked" rather than "answer the questions that I ACTUALLY ASKED." Congratulations. You just personified what the guy in this video is suggesting. I guess the young missionaries are taught this as a way to get out of answering difficult and/or embarrassing questions about their faith.

      I didn't ask what was taught in the NT that wasn't found in the OT. Reread my ACTUAL question. in post no. 741.

      We can chalk those things up to continuing revelation. That the LDS church has revelation not revealed in the NT is only evidence they have followed the same pattern as the transition from the OT to the NT.
      We can chalk up those things to the Jesus fulfilling the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms. What was foreshadowed in the OT was fulfilled in Christ Jesus. And the last time I checked, the NT was part of the Bible, along with the OT.


      The question is--what do we find in the Biblical NT--which is not found in the LDS church----as far as salvational doctrines go?

      James 2:24---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
      24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

      Nice try, dberrie, but i am not going to be distracted from my question. We are not discussing faith alone here. That is for another board.

      The question I ACTUALLY ASKED WAS : kindly show me those doctrines IN THE BIBLE that I asked in post no. 741.
      "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
      "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
      "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
      "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
      "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

      Comment


      • Originally posted by NRA-Jeff

        Do YOU trust the parts of the Bible that YOUR church's founder changed in HIS execrable "German translation" version of the Bible?
        Why don't you go to the Lutheran board and ask the Lutherans that?

        "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
        "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
        "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
        "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
        "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Father_JD View Post

          In James 1:5, we are encouraged to pray for WISDOM when confronted with adverse situation because of being a Christian...in Deuteronomy, we are INSTRUCTED to TEST wanna-be prophets...and by extension, wanna-be "holy scripture"...in Acts, we are shown the WISDOM of the Bereans in TESTING the apostles' message by "examining scripture to see if those things were so"

          Funny, not ONCE is prayer recommended for determining propositional truth...and lastly, many have prayed out of ignorance not knowing this, and yet, they were told the BOM was BOGUS...guess they weren't "sincere" enough, huh, Ralf?? Hmmmmm...chuckle!!
          Also, why should we pray for the truth of something, when God has already revealed that truth to us in His written word, the Bible? All we have to do is compare Mormon doctrines to what the Bible actually has in it, to know that Mormon doctrines are false and that JS was a lying false prophet. Who needs to pray about that? When we already have the answer?
          "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
          "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
          "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
          "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
          "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

          Comment


          • EDITED

            You do err, Jeff. I said JS's version of the Bible--his so-called "Inspired" version--is execrable. There is a difference. Please learn it.

            What don't they trust? The parts that JS changed in his execrable so-called "Inspired" version of the Bible.
            See the bolded part from my quote? From post no. 753? Kindly show me where I "trash talked" and said the Bible itself is "execrable."

            but if you think Luther's German translation is so bad, then by golly, go over to the Lutheran forum and tell us why! I hope you speak German!
            Last edited by Mod10; 01-12-18, 07:03 PM.
            "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
            "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
            "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
            "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
            "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

            Comment



            • Father_JD View Post

              In James 1:5, we are encouraged to pray for WISDOM when confronted with adverse situation because of being a Christian...in Deuteronomy, we are INSTRUCTED to TEST wanna-be prophets...and by extension, wanna-be "holy scripture"...in Acts, we are shown the WISDOM of the Bereans in TESTING the apostles' message by "examining scripture to see if those things were so"

              Funny, not ONCE is prayer recommended for determining propositional truth...and lastly, many have prayed out of ignorance not knowing this, and yet, they were told the BOM was BOGUS...guess they weren't "sincere" enough, huh, Ralf?? Hmmmmm...chuckle!!



              Originally posted by JustaLurker View Post

              If you are now convinced that such a prayer is illicit then why do you give credence to the answer you think you got? If the prayer is illicit then would not the respondent be the devil?

              An excellent question, and I mean that sincerely! And here's the answer:

              I had ALREADY become a Christian WHEN I prayed that prayer, but didn't know that God says NOT to pray but that we TEST such things. WHY do Mormons get a "yes" response they think confirms the validity of Mormonism? You won't like the answer. But the TRUTH is, until one is objectively regenerated by the Holy Spirit, that one is still UNREDEEMED, still FALLEN, still SPIRITUALLY DEAD and NOT alive to the Spirit, i.e. the REAL one. The thing is, I have encountered those who truly knew Christ, but when praying about the bogus BOM, were told emphatically it was FALSE and Mormonism FALSE. Those who get a positive response to Mormonism and/or the BOM are NOT getting a response from the true Holy Spirit, but from a demon and are being DECEIVED. Paul had worried that some in the Corinthian church would "accept ANOTHER gospel and ANOTHER Christ" which they hadn't preached...Satan can and does appear as an "angel of light" to DECEIVE and to DELUDE UNbelievers of the truth.

              If the prayer and the answer is to be credited, then how can you say that we are not to pray for such things? If praying for such things results in us receiving them then obviously it is efficacious to make such prayers.

              One way or another your theology is false.
              Nope...but will you take my answer seriously? I seriously doubt you will.
              Last edited by Father_JD; 01-13-18, 08:38 AM.
              Da Faddah

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Bonnie View Post

                Also, why should we pray for the truth of something, when God has already revealed that truth to us in His written word, the Bible? All we have to do is compare Mormon doctrines to what the Bible actually has in it, to know that Mormon doctrines are false and that JS was a lying false prophet. Who needs to pray about that? When we already have the answer?
                Exactly, Bonnie....I once had the mishies in my home in Texas, and I asked them WHY they didn't pray to know whether the Koran was TRUE...their response?

                "Well, we know that the Koran professes beliefs which are contrary to the Bible"

                Now you know why Christians should NEVER pray to know if the BOM or Mormon doctrine is true: they are contrary to the Bible.
                Da Faddah

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Father_JD View Post

                  Exactly, Bonnie....I once had the mishies in my home in Texas, and I asked them WHY they didn't pray to know whether the Koran was TRUE...their response?

                  "Well, we know that the Koran professes beliefs which are contrary to the Bible"

                  Now you know why Christians should NEVER pray to know if the BOM or Mormon doctrine is true: they are contrary to the Bible.
                  Oh, brother....double standard, anyone? Mormons will use the Bible to test OTHER religions--but NOT their own! And don't worry, I already know that Mormonism is contrary to what God has taught us in the Bible. Like the Bereans, I use scripture to determine the truth. And I use OTHER scripture to counter the misuse of some Scriptures by some Mormons, who isolate verses in order to attempt to back up their heretical beliefs.
                  "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                  "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                  "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                  "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
                  "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bonnie View Post

                    Oh, brother....double standard, anyone? Mormons will use the Bible to test OTHER religions--but NOT their own! And don't worry, I already know that Mormonism is contrary to what God has taught us in the Bible. Like the Bereans, I use scripture to determine the truth. And I use OTHER scripture to counter the misuse of some Scriptures by some Mormons, who isolate verses in order to attempt to back up their heretical beliefs.
                    Of course it's a double standard and the Mos here on CARM would only DEFLECT and attempt to change the subject when I brought their hypocritical stance up...NEVER did get a serious response from any of them.
                    Da Faddah

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Bonnie View Post
                      Oh, brother....double standard, anyone? Mormons will use the Bible to test OTHER religions--but NOT their own!
                      I have two threads out right now--which asks all to list what they believe is found in the Biblical NT--which is not found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go.

                      Silence. Crickets.


                      Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
                      16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
                      17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
                      18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
                      19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                        I have two threads out right now--which asks all to list what they believe is found in the Biblical NT--which is not found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go.

                        Silence. Crickets.


                        Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
                        16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
                        17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
                        18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
                        19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
                        Silence...Crickets...because we're tired of playing your stupid little Mormon reindeer game, berrie. I told you more times than I care to remember that you've taken Jesus words OUT OF CONTEXT and that just a few verses later, He says that salvation is IMPOSSIBLE by human effort...I have likewise told you many times that if Eternal Life CAME by commandment-keeping, then CHRIST HAS DIED IN VAIN.

                        Your response?

                        Nuh-uh!
                        Da Faddah

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Father_JD View Post

                          Silence...Crickets...because we're tired of playing your stupid little Mormon reindeer game, berrie. I told you more times than I care to remember that you've taken Jesus words OUT OF CONTEXT and that just a few verses later, He says that salvation is IMPOSSIBLE by human effort...I have likewise told you many times that if Eternal Life CAME by commandment-keeping, then CHRIST HAS DIED IN VAIN.

                          Your response?

                          Nuh-uh!
                          And also because we get tired of asking question of certain posters and never receiving a simple, straight-forward answer to our simple question. All we get is obfuscation, derailment, and an attempt to change the subject. Posters demand that we answer THEIR questions, yet most Mormons refuse to answer OURS--no matter how easy and simple the questions are.

                          I would like to know who can keep all of God's commandments perfectly in this life, on their own power. Never stumbling even once in thought, word, or deed. James says if we keep the whole law but stumble in one point, we are guilty of ALL of it.

                          So, how is that working out for Mormons? Can any of them keep God's commandments perfectly, all the time?
                          Last edited by Bonnie; 01-13-18, 11:37 AM.
                          "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                          "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                          "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                          "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
                          "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                            I have two threads out right now--which asks all to list what they believe is found in the Biblical NT--which is not found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go.

                            Silence. Crickets.


                            Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
                            16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
                            17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
                            18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
                            19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
                            If they don't answer your question, maybe it is because you almost never give us straight answers to any of OUR questions--like the ones I have been asking you about Eph. 2:8-10 for months now, and where I asked you to show me some Mormon doctrines IN THE BIBLE, in post no. 741. I got nothing but obfuscation, an attempt to derail the subject, and doing what that guy in the video told the young missionaries to do--answer the question that they think SHOULD have been asked, rather than the question that WAS asked.

                            But the answer to YOUR question here is in those same Ephesians verses, chapter 2, vs. 8-10.
                            "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                            "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                            "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                            "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
                            "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post
                              I have two threads out right now--which asks all to list what they believe is found in the Biblical NT--which is not found in the LDS church--as far as salvational doctrines go.

                              Silence. Crickets.

                              Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
                              16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
                              17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
                              18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
                              19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
                              Originally posted by Father_JD View Post
                              Silence...Crickets...because we're tired of playing your stupid little Mormon reindeer game, berrie.
                              Finding what is contained in the Biblical NT text--which is not found in the LDS church, as far as salvational doctrines are concerned--or attempting to collate the Biblical testimony with the theology preached here--can be a very tiring exercise in futility.

                              1 Timothy 4:16---King James Version (KJV)
                              16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.


                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post



                                Finding what is contained in the Biblical NT text--which is not found in the LDS church, as far as salvational doctrines are concerned--or attempting to collate the Biblical testimony with the theology preached here--can be a very tiring exercise in futility.

                                1 Timothy 4:16---King James Version (KJV)
                                16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

                                What is an exercise in futility is trying to get some Mormon posters to give us straight-forward answers to simple questions: like showing us where in the Bible the Mormon doctrines I listed on post no. 741 can be found. Instead of a straight-forward answer, I got a desperate attempt at derailment and changing the subject. It did not work. I am still waiting for an answer to my simple question. But so far, all I get is crickets.

                                Oh, and the answer to your question here is in those same verses I have also asked Mormons questions about and have yet to receive an answer to--Eph. 2:8-10. IF Mormons would deign to give me simple, straight forward answers to my simple questions about those verses, they would get the answer to your question here, as well.
                                "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                                "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                                "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                                "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
                                "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

                                Comment

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