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When Mormons pray hard enough...................

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  • Originally posted by Ralf View Post

    You do well by explaining being born again and becoming a new creature...a Mormon Doctrine for sure....
    And Yet I can claim the Promise and yet have rejected the Mormon Church---how does that work?

    but thanks for saying "I do well by explaining being born again and becoming a new Creation [not creature]."

    Comment


    • Originally posted by jamesone5 View Post

      And Yet I can claim the Promise and yet have rejected the Mormon Church---how does that work?

      but thanks for saying "I do well by explaining being born again and becoming a new Creation [not creature]."
      Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things have become new. King James
      A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards. Proverbs

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Father_JD View Post 2:24 not by faith alone. A person is not shown to be just by the mere profession of faith or by having a faith that remains alone.
        Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post So--what do the faith alone add to their faith, so it won't "remain alone"--in obtaining salvation?

        father--the fact is--the faith alone believe one is saved through a faith which is alone.

        The "remain alone"--is a term which connotates it is alone in salvation--and then works are added afterwards.

        IOW--one is saved through a dead faith--then one brings forth works so it won't remain dead. All works are excluded in obtaining salvation, in faith alone theology---quite the contrast to what the Biblical text testifies to:

        Hebrews 5:9---King James Version (KJV)
        9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
        Originally posted by Father_JD View Post
        Have answered you dozens of times, berrie...go troll somewhere or someone else.
        Considering the impossible task of answering that question--I believe you are smart to avoid it.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Ralf View Post

          Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things have become new. King James
          And I prefer the NKJV rendering of that same verse which is this:

          2 Corinthians 5:17 {NKJV**

          Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post





            Considering the impossible task of answering that question--I believe you are smart to avoid it.
            I've forgotten how many times I HAVE answered it...and true, you are smart to AVOID it....just as you ALWAYS have, berrie.
            Da Faddah

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Father_JD View Post
              I've forgotten how many times I HAVE answered it...
              That is one of the usual answers of those whose theology is violated by the scriptures:

              Originally posted by Father_JD View Post 2:24 not by faith alone. A person is not shown to be just by the mere profession of faith or by having a faith that remains alone.
              So, father--just what does one add to faith in obtaining salvation?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                That is one of the usual answers of those whose theology is violated by the scriptures:



                So, father--just what does one add to faith in obtaining salvation?
                You Don't

                Rom_3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

                Rom_3:30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.

                Rom_5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

                Rom_4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness

                Gal_2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

                Gal_3:11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

                Gal_3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.


                By the Way I really hate the Hypocracy of Mormons who Quote James since You don't Believe in the Book of James. I assume you have really thought out your Hypocracy here?

                I MEAN REALLY, IF YOU BELIEVE THE BOOK OF JAMES YOU REALIZE JOSPEH SMITH IS AN APOSTATE .. JAMES CLEARLY TEACHES ONE GOD.

                I MEAN REALLY.. CLAIMING TO FOLLOW THE BOOK OF JAMES WHY DENYING IT IN THE SAME BREATH ..

                Last edited by TruthSayer; 12-06-17, 07:34 PM.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by TruthSayer View Post

                  You Don't

                  Rom_3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

                  Rom_3:30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.

                  Rom_5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

                  Rom_4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness

                  Gal_2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

                  Gal_3:11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

                  Gal_3:24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.


                  By the Way I really hate the Hypocracy of Mormons who Quote James since You don't Believe in the Book of James. I assume you have really thought out your Hypocracy here?

                  I MEAN REALLY, IF YOU BELIEVE THE BOOK OF JAMES YOU REALIZE JOSPEH SMITH IS AN APOSTATE .. JAMES CLEARLY TEACHES ONE GOD.

                  I MEAN REALLY.. CLAIMING TO FOLLOW THE BOOK OF JAMES WHY DENYING IT IN THE SAME BREATH ..
                  Your scripture quotes are out of context. Your religion is dead and apostate, and needed to be restored. Mormonism is a restoration of God's original and true Christian Church.
                  zerinus
                  I am a Mormon!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                    That is one of the usual answers of those whose theology is violated by the scriptures:



                    So, father--just what does one add to faith in obtaining salvation?
                    One's faith has already obtained that one salvation...now that one can demonstrate that inward grace by baptism. But baptism does NOT save anyone, berrie. It was the FAITH which saved him.
                    Da Faddah

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                      It is true. No man can be justified through the Mosaic Law.

                      But obedience to the gospel is connected to eternal life:

                      Romans 2:5-11---King James Version (KJV)
                      5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
                      6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
                      7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
                      8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
                      9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
                      10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
                      11 For there is no respect of persons with God.


                      Paul separated the two:

                      1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version (KJV)
                      19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God..
                      Uh No, He did not separate the Two as the Law is still the Law, whether it be Mosaic of Aaronic,

                      As is evidenced in the OT no one could Keep the Law of Moses and Mormons pretend that can now.

                      This what the words "commandments "entail.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by jamesone5 View Post

                        Uh No, He did not separate the Two as the Law is still the Law, whether it be Mosaic of Aaronic,

                        As is evidenced in the OT no one could Keep the Law of Moses and Mormons pretend that can now.

                        This what the words "commandments "entail.
                        That's an excellent point. Mormons believe they can keep the law (commandments) perfectly, yet Scriptures makes it clear what the purpose was for God giving the law in the first place. It was given to make man aware that he is a sinner in need of a Savior.

                        No human ever born has been able to keep the whole letter of the law. Jesus said we can sin in our thoughts, in our hearts, as well as with our mouth. We are ALL guilty.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post It is true. No man can be justified through the Mosaic Law.

                          But obedience to the gospel is connected to eternal life:

                          Romans 2:5-11---King James Version (KJV)
                          5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
                          6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
                          7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
                          8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
                          9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
                          10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
                          11 For there is no respect of persons with God.


                          Paul separated the two:

                          1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version (KJV)
                          19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God..
                          Originally posted by jamesone5 View Post
                          Uh No, He did not separate the Two as the Law is still the Law, whether it be Mosaic of Aaronic,
                          No one is arguing the Law was not the Law--and yes, Paul did separate out certain rituals under the Mosaic Law--from the gospel:

                          1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version (KJV)
                          19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God..

                          As is evidenced in the OT no one could Keep the Law of Moses and Mormons pretend that can now.
                          No one is advocating keeping the Mosaic Law. Paul certainly was not--he divided the law from the gospel here:

                          1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version (KJV)
                          19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God..

                          This what the words "commandments "entail.
                          The term "commandments" mean just what Christ testified to:

                          Matthew 19:16-19--King James Version (KJV)
                          16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
                          17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:
                          but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
                          18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
                          19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


                          Jesus Christ connected keeping the commandments with eternal life. There was no eternal life under the Mosaic law.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Jake1254 View Post
                            That's an excellent point. Mormons believe they can keep the law (commandments) perfectly, yet Scriptures makes it clear what the purpose was for God giving the law in the first place. It was given to make man aware that he is a sinner in need of a Savior.

                            No human ever born has been able to keep the whole letter of the law. Jesus said we can sin in our thoughts, in our hearts, as well as with our mouth. We are ALL guilty.
                            The Mosaic Law was not to show mankind they could not keep the commandments--it was to show all need the grace of God in their perfection process. The LDS do not feel that perfection will be complete in this life--that does not preclude obedience to His commandments.

                            So--did Abraham keep the commandments?

                            Genesis 26:4-5---King James Version (KJV)
                            4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
                            5Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws

                            Jake--this shows something else--Abraham had the commandments 400 years prior to the Mosaic law.

                            As Paul noted--the Mosaic Law was added to the gospel--which Abraham had:

                            Galatians 3:8,19---King James Version (KJV)
                            8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
                            19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

                            Added to what? Well--it was added to the gospel of Jeus Christ.

                            That's the reason when the Mosaic Law was fulfilled--the commandments remained as part of the gospel:

                            1 John 2:3-4---King James Version (KJV)
                            3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
                            4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post



                              No one is arguing the Law was not the Law--and yes, Paul did separate out certain rituals under the Mosaic Law--from the gospel:

                              1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version (KJV)
                              19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God..



                              No one is advocating keeping the Mosaic Law. Paul certainly was not--he divided the law from the gospel here:

                              1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version (KJV)
                              19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God..



                              The term "commandments" mean just what Christ testified to:

                              Matthew 19:16-19--King James Version (KJV)
                              16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
                              17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:
                              but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
                              18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
                              19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


                              Jesus Christ connected keeping the commandments with eternal life. There was no eternal life under the Mosaic law.
                              You are saying the word "commandments" are different in Paul's letter because it included the supposed Mosaic Law--- which is this:


                              1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version (KJV)
                              19
                              Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God

                              than from Christ's Words here .

                              Matthew 19:16-19--King James Version (KJV)
                              16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
                              17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God:
                              but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
                              18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
                              19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


                              The Law is the Law, whether it comes for Christ or from one He designated to write out His Word.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by jamesone5 View Post
                                You are saying the word "commandments" are different in Paul's letter because it included the supposed Mosaic Law--- which is thi[/B]s:

                                1 Corinthians 7:19---King James Version (KJV)
                                19Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God
                                Paul separated out keeping the commandments as necessary--and certain rituals found under the Mosaic Law as unnecessary, as the Mosaic Law was fulfilled.

                                The reason the commandments remained after the Mosaic Law was fulfilled--is because they were part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ prior to the Mosaic Law:

                                Genesis 26:4-5---King James Version (KJV)
                                4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
                                5Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

                                The Mosaic Law was added to the gospel 400 years later:

                                Galatians 3:8,19---King James Version (KJV)
                                8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
                                19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

                                Added to what? Well--added to the gospel of Jesus Christ, which Abraham had.

                                And that's why the commandments remained a part of the gospel after the Mosaic Law was fulfilled--and were connected to eternal life:

                                Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version (KJV)
                                16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
                                17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
                                18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
                                19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.




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