Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

July 4th, to remember Christians not Mormons!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • July 4th, to remember Christians not Mormons!

    Samuel Huntington, my great many greats uncle, signed the Declaration of Independence on behalf of Connecticut. I know the heretical Mormons have been baptized for him! This is to let you know that Samuel was a devout Christian and would roll over in his grave had he known occultic rites were performed on his behalf.

    Live with it Mormons, this country was founded by Christians, not Smith heretics. In fact, Joe Smith tried to make our great country into a theocracy governed by himself as "high holy mouthpiece, etc.." That was treasonous at least! God intervened, and Smith never got to be President, never was able to impose his version of Christianity on this country.

    Good for the early Christians who had the foresight to demand the separation of the State from religious groups. If Smith had had his way, he would have set up Mormonism as the established Church. But the best laid plans of mice and men................"

  • #2
    Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
    Samuel Huntington, my great many greats uncle, signed the Declaration of Independence on behalf of Connecticut. I know the heretical Mormons have been baptized for him! This is to let you know that Samuel was a devout Christian and would roll over in his grave had he known occultic rites were performed on his behalf.

    Live with it Mormons, this country was founded by Christians, not Smith heretics. In fact, Joe Smith tried to make our great country into a theocracy governed by himself as "high holy mouthpiece, etc.." That was treasonous at least! God intervened, and Smith never got to be President, never was able to impose his version of Christianity on this country.

    Good for the early Christians who had the foresight to demand the separation of the State from religious groups. If Smith had had his way, he would have set up Mormonism as the established Church. But the best laid plans of mice and men................"
    Actually, Catherine....

    Independence Day commemorates the signing of the Declaration of Independence by a number of people from many different Religious traditions, mostly Christian, yes...but also deists. These same men went on to help form the Constitution, which, in the very first amendment, guaranteed the freedom of religion; first, and twice. No other civil right has been mentioned twice. It was important to our founders.

    The United States has been important to Mormons, too; look what we put up with, and still stayed patriotic and loyal to her. We are the ONLY people to have been made legal prey by a state governor. We are the only religious group to have been completely expelled from the nation, and even as we were being so expelled, we volunteered to be part of the US Army, and made the longest march in military history in so doing.

    Joseph Smith ran for president under the rules set down for such things...as an abolitionist.

    Brigham Young and his successors struggled to remain connected to the USA, to become a state...and ten of our young men are Congressional Medal of Honor recipients. In SPITE of having the US send, literally, half its armed services against us, we stayed loyal. In SPITE of the Senate not allowing a legally elected Senator to take his seat for four of his six years, we stayed loyal.

    We have served in every war, now serve in every field; military, police, FBI, Secret Service, CIA...we are patriots. We love our country. We always have, and few people have shown that love more than the Mormons have, in spite of a great deal of reason not to.

    But nobody loves this nation more. Nobody does.

    And you, Catherine, are out of line.

    btw....I suggest you take a look at our Articles of Faith, especially #11:

    We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

    It might be a good idea for you to...go have a picnic, drink some lemonade, watch some fireworks tonight, and.....dial this stuff back. You are embarrassing yourself.
    Last edited by dianaiad; 07-04-15, 01:48 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by dianaiad View Post
      Actually, Catherine....

      Independence Day commemorates the signing of the Declaration of Independence by a number of people from many different Religious traditions, mostly Christian, yes...but also deists. These same men went on to help form the Constitution, which, in the very first amendment, guaranteed the freedom of religion; first, and twice. No other civil right has been mentioned twice. It was important to our founders.

      The United States has been important to Mormons, too; look what we put up with, and still stayed patriotic and loyal to her. We are the ONLY people to have been made legal prey by a state governor. We are the only religious group to have been completely expelled from the nation, and even as we were being so expelled, we volunteered to be part of the US Army, and made the longest march in military history in so doing.

      Joseph Smith ran for president under the rules set down for such things...as an abolitionist.

      Brigham Young and his successors struggled to remain connected to the USA, to become a state...and ten of our young men are Congressional Medal of Honor recipients. In SPITE of having the US send, literally, half its armed services against us, we stayed loyal. In SPITE of the Senate not allowing a legally elected Senator to take his seat for four of his six years, we stayed loyal.

      We have served in every war, now serve in every field; military, police, FBI, Secret Service, CIA...we are patriots. We love our country. We always have, and few people have shown that love more than the Mormons have, in spite of a great deal of reason not to.

      But nobody loves this nation more. Nobody does.

      And you, Catherine, are out of line.

      btw....I suggest you take a look at our Articles of Faith, especially #11:

      We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

      It might be a good idea for you to...go have a picnic, drink some lemonade, watch some fireworks tonight, and.....dial this stuff back. You are embarrassing yourself.
      I'm very aware of the history of this country, and don't need instruction from you. Needless to say, you Mormon cultists have gotten necromantically baptized for all the signers - however you can't change the faith of the many Christians who founded this country, and would never consider giving up Jesus for Joe Smith.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
        I'm very aware of the history of this country, and don't need instruction from you.
        Evidently you do, since you feel it necessary to cast aspersions upon our patriotism and our love for our country, which, quite frankly, I not only find distasteful, I also, unfortunately, also find...from you...expected.

        Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
        Needless to say, you Mormon cultists have gotten necromantically baptized for all the signers - however you can't change the faith of the many Christians who founded this country, and would never consider giving up Jesus for Joe Smith.
        If we can't, we can't...and unlike you, WE figure that it is entirely up to them to make up their own minds on the matter. YOU would deny them the choice.

        I mean, after all, if what we do is ineffective and 'untrue,' then it will not affect those for whom we do the proxy work, will it? They won't even know about it.
        If what we do DOES work, then...besides that being quite a problem for you, all it means is that those for whom we do the work are quite free to say 'no, thank you' and/or laugh at us.

        Of course, if what we do IS efficacious, that does raise the question of why anybody WOULD say 'no thank you,' but at least our beliefs are that they can, indeed, refuse it.

        .....................but you?

        Who died and made you executor and guardian of their afterlives? What gives YOU the right to say whether THEY can say 'yes," "No," or "Are you NUTS?"

        I've never been able to figure that one out, frankly. Sometimes I honestly think that you believe in the efficacy of proxy baptisms more than we do.

        BTW, your use of the word 'necromancy' is incorrect. I'm sure it won't bother you any or change your use of it; I just thought I'd mention it.
        Last edited by dianaiad; 07-04-15, 03:02 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          I think some of our critics still believe in the Theocracy of the Roman Orthodoxy which declared that anyone who doesn't AGREE and believe in the "RIGHT THINKING' .ie. ORTHODOXY is to be branded a Heretic, tortured and executed.

          Our founding fathers formed this country establish a more perfect union wereby people had FREEDOM of Religion and no longer had to live under the tyranny of Trinitarian orthodoxy oppression.. they can "Think for themselves" Believe for themselves and the dictates of their own conscience.. instead of praising the Roman Emperor Creedal dogma. Many of the such minded people ar LDS.. LDS it a truly AMERICAN Religion from the bases of Freedom that is at it's very core.. So Yes the 4th of JULY Is VERY MUCH for people like LDS, and NOT for the old guard Orthodoxy tyranny the remains a part of the vitural culture of so many of the so called Christians here.
          Last edited by oceancoast; 07-04-15, 03:17 PM.
          “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

          We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

          Comment


          • #6
            What better way to not remember the Mormons on July 4th than by posting a thread on July 4th about Mormons and having their leader, Joseph Smith, on your mind.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Vaniah View Post
              What better way to not remember the Mormons on July 4th than by posting a thread on July 4th about Mormons and having their leader, Joseph Smith, on your mind.
              I don't know, why don't you tell us since you seem to know. And who are you anyway? A Mormon or a Christian?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dianaiad View Post
                Actually, Catherine....

                Independence Day commemorates the signing of the Declaration of Independence by a number of people from many different Religious traditions, mostly Christian, yes...but also deists. These same men went on to help form the Constitution, which, in the very first amendment, guaranteed the freedom of religion; first, and twice. No other civil right has been mentioned twice. It was important to our founders.
                Yes ...founded by Christians and some deists. But NOT by MORMONS, which was Catherine's point that YOU cannot disprove but will not acknolwedge. You will fail to show that anything, which we could even mistake for Mormonism, ever existed anywhere in human history PRIOR to the appearance of the claims of ONE man - Joseph Smith, a notorious liar, convicted occult con man and manifestly FALSE prophet.

                Yes, you are free to follow him under the laws of the United States of America. You can burn incence to images of your dog if you want to. That STILL does not mean that the United States was founded by the participation of even ONE Mormon.. There WERE no Mormons anywhere on earth until 1830 - well AFTER the ratification of the Constitution.

                - BH

                .

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by BrianH View Post
                  Yes ...founded by Christians and some deists. But NOT by MORMONS, which was Catherine's point that YOU cannot disprove but will not acknolwedge. You will fail to show that anything, which we could even mistake for Mormonism, ever existed anywhere in human history PRIOR to the appearance of the claims of ONE man - Joseph Smith, a notorious liar, convicted occult con man and manifestly FALSE prophet.

                  Yes, you are free to follow him under the laws of the United States of America. You can burn incence to images of your dog if you want to. That STILL does not mean that the United States was founded by the participation of even ONE Mormon.. There WERE no Mormons anywhere on earth until 1830 - well AFTER the ratification of the Constitution.

                  - BH

                  .
                  Does that mean that Mormons are not entitled to be citizens of the USA, to celebrate her founding? MANY of you, here, are the children of people who came to this nation after it was founded, in the hopes of finding freedom. Your families were not involved in its formation. Yet you are here, enjoying the rights and privileges of this great nation, because YOU are who the nation was founded FOR.

                  Yes. I am a Mormon. There were no Mormons before 1830. There were no Catholics before about 300 AD, no Calvinists or Lutherans, Presbyterians...no Protestants at all before about 1200 AD. Does that mean that you cannot claim to be Christians?

                  There were no Mormons before 1830. Does that mean we are not Americans?

                  Well, I am the direct descendent of John Adams and of three other signers of the Declaration of Independence. I am the direct descendent of John and Priscilla Alden (and this is the first time I've ever admitted THAT one!) My family has been here, then, quite literally, since the Mayflower. My CHILDREN'S ancestors, at least some of them, were here before the Mayflower.

                  My father is going to be ninety years old at the end of this month. He enlisted in the US Navy at the beginning of WWII, skipping his senior year in high school in order to do it. He served in the Pacific, and had two ships blown out from underneath him. He has a couple of purple hearts, only one kidney, shrapnel that STILL shows up every so often (and messes up the MRI) and a Silver Star...all that he 'won' before he was eighteen years old. He came home and...while he never did finish high school, ended up with a PhD in Chemistry and worked for JPL...and was instrumental in getting us to the moon and getting most of our communication satellites up. I lost a fiance in Viet Nam.

                  Are they not Americans, and worthy of celebrating this day, BECAUSE THEY ARE MORMONS?

                  Do NOT tell me that Mormons aren't worth being Americans. Do NOT tell me that we don't belong here, Do NOT tell me that the founders of the United States didn't have us in mind when the nation was founded, because if they didn't have US in mind, even if they didn't know who we were, they didn't have anybody in mind.

                  I find this thread, and this OP...and your post, to be one of the most offensive things I have ever read.

                  Tell me, Brian, what part of: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


                  Does NOT apply to Mormons?

                  What part of: We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

                  Does not include Mormons?

                  What part of: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


                  Does not apply to Mormons?

                  I hope that you have a really good and happy Fourth of July...

                  And I hope that you are mightily ashamed of the things you have written today.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by oceancoast View Post
                    I think some of our critics still believe in the Theocracy of the Roman Orthodoxy which declared that anyone who doesn't AGREE and believe in the "RIGHT THINKING' .ie. ORTHODOXY is to be branded a Heretic, tortured and executed.

                    Our founding fathers formed this country establish a more perfect union wereby people had FREEDOM of Religion and no longer had to live under the tyranny of Trinitarian orthodoxy oppression.. they can "Think for themselves" Believe for themselves and the dictates of their own conscience.. instead of praising the Roman Emperor Creedal dogma. Many of the such minded people ar LDS.. LDS it a truly AMERICAN Religion from the bases of Freedom that is at it's very core.. So Yes the 4th of JULY Is VERY MUCH for people like LDS, and NOT for the old guard Orthodoxy tyranny the remains a part of the vitural culture of so many of the so called Christians here.

                    The "tyranny" of Trinitarianism? That's quite strange. What do you mean. Has anybody tyrannized you because of your false beliefs? Or is this just another example of the collective persecution complex suffered by many Mormons.

                    In any case, this thread is not about the Trinity, but the founding of this country by NON-MORMONS, who your cultic priests illicitly baptize into your cult. Speaking of tyranny, I'd say making people Mormons against their will, after they have died, is the most sordid form of idiotic tyranny.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BrianH View Post
                      Yes ...founded by Christians and some deists. But NOT by MORMONS, which was Catherine's point that YOU cannot disprove but will not acknolwedge. You will fail to show that anything, which we could even mistake for Mormonism, ever existed anywhere in human history PRIOR to the appearance of the claims of ONE man - Joseph Smith, a notorious liar, convicted occult con man and manifestly FALSE prophet.

                      Yes, you are free to follow him under the laws of the United States of America. You can burn incence to images of your dog if you want to. That STILL does not mean that the United States was founded by the participation of even ONE Mormon.. There WERE no Mormons anywhere on earth until 1830 - well AFTER the ratification of the Constitution.

                      - BH

                      .
                      Nope, but these avid followers of the pedophile, Smith, have tried to co-opt this holiday as their own, not to mention saying that their human god "inspired" the Constitution.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
                        Nope, but these avid followers of the pedophile, Smith, have tried to co-opt this holiday as their own, not to mention saying that their human god "inspired" the Constitution.

                        "co-opted" this holiday as our own?

                        Are you going to insist that we, since you do not think we are Christians, are not allowed to watch "1776," have parades and celebrations in the park, to watch (and in places where they are legal) set off fire works? Are you going to claim that Mormons have no right to celebrate?

                        I have news for you, Catherine.

                        I am a Mormon. My family has been here longer than yours has. My children's ancestors have been here longer than either one of ours has. I have worked, and voted, and campaigned, and celebrated our nation for considerably over half a century, and I'm not going to allow YOU...or anybody else...to tell me to go hide behind some door somewhere, or to be quiet, or to keep my face out of the parade because YOU do not approve of my religious beliefs.

                        Indeed, I'm certainly not going to allow you, or anybody else, to violate MY first amendment rights because YOU don't think it applies to me...or to you.

                        Because it does.

                        I am an American. This IS my holiday. I am American by birth and by ancestry, both those ancestors who were here at the beginning, and by those who came later. I am an American. This IS my holiday. If I want to give God thanks for His help in guiding the founding fathers as they did their work, then I can do that.

                        I am an American. This IS my holiday.

                        And you have absolutely no right whatsoever to even hint that it is not, that I have no right to it, and that you are somehow 'more American' or 'better' than me because your religion trumps mine. Because if you think so, then while you may be an American by birth, you have forgotten what it means to BE an American...and you should refresh your memory a bit; perhaps you could start by reading, oh, the Constitution?
                        Last edited by dianaiad; 07-04-15, 08:03 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
                          The "tyranny" of Trinitarianism? That's quite strange. What do you mean. Has anybody tyrannized you because of your false beliefs? Or is this just another example of the collective persecution complex suffered by many Mormons.

                          In any case, this thread is not about the Trinity, but the founding of this country by NON-MORMONS, who your cultic priests illicitly baptize into your cult. Speaking of tyranny, I'd say making people Mormons against their will, after they have died, is the most sordid form of idiotic tyranny.
                          Well, now that's the thing, isn't it?

                          WE do not believe that they become 'Mormons against their will." Indeed, WE, the people doing proxy work for the dead, believe that they have the absolute choice as to whether they accept it or not. WE believe that they can say 'no,' if they wish. WE believe that they are quite free to do so.

                          Nothing is done 'against their will,' because if they don't accept, then it's nothing but a notation on a page.

                          As I mentioned before, it is ironic indeed; you think our proxy work has more effect than WE do.

                          In fact, the only coercion here is yours, if you succeed in preventing the work being done. After all, isn't that taking what should be their decisions out of their hands and making it for them yourself? Isn't THAT the epitome of 'against their wills?"

                          In other words, Catherine, you have this exactly backwards. WE are not coercing anybody. YOU are. How DARE you make their decisions for them? Again, who died and made you their boss? WE don't do that; we offer....and they decide.

                          You.....just decide.

                          .................and then you deny a whole bunch of Americans the right to celebrate their nation because YOU don't like their religion.

                          I don't think that's what the nation was founded to allow you to do, y'know?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by oceancoast View Post
                            I think some of our critics still believe in the Theocracy of the Roman Orthodoxy which declared that anyone who doesn't AGREE and believe in the "RIGHT THINKING' .ie. ORTHODOXY is to be branded a Heretic, tortured and executed.

                            Our founding fathers formed this country establish a more perfect union wereby people had FREEDOM of Religion and no longer had to live under the tyranny of Trinitarian orthodoxy oppression.. they can "Think for themselves" Believe for themselves and the dictates of their own conscience.. instead of praising the Roman Emperor Creedal dogma. Many of the such minded people ar LDS.. LDS it a truly AMERICAN Religion from the bases of Freedom that is at it's very core.. So Yes the 4th of JULY Is VERY MUCH for people like LDS, and NOT for the old guard Orthodoxy tyranny the remains a part of the vitural culture of so many of the so called Christians here.
                            FYI - only one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence was Catholic. Catholicism was actually banned in most of the colonies.
                            Your life has shown you to your flock as a rule of faith, an image of gentleness, and a teacher of moderation. You acquired greatness through humility and wealth through poverty. [source: Troparion of St.Nicholas (Byzantine-Ruthenian usage)]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Curious Joe View Post
                              FYI - only one of the signers of the Declaration of Independence was Catholic. Catholicism was actually banned in most of the colonies.
                              Indeed, only one was...but one WAS...and two of 'em were actually deists, two were Unitarians, a bunch were Episcopalians (which might be one reason they were so adamant about that 'freedom of religion' thing, later) a few Presbyterians, a couple of Quakers, a bunch of Congregationalists (which is a fancy name for 'I go to the church on the corner and they don't answer to anybody') .........and not a Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Pentacostal or "Assemblies of God" in the mix.

                              Indeed, I got to thinking: if Mormons aren't allowed to celebrate the Fourth of July because Mormonism didn't exist before 1830.......well, what about the Methodists, who had been started, sort of, in the 1730's, but really weren't represented all that well yet? Ah, well. I have to wonder; I gather that Unitarians and deists are not considered Christians by CARM (and probably not by many of you guys) so...does that mean that the Declaration of Independence, and the Constitution, doesn't apply to those men who actually SIGNED them?

                              Must not, according to some who post here.



                              Hmnnn....

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X