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Answering a Mormon deceptive tactic.

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  • Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

    That just seemed to be to be a thought Mag was not sharing at the moment:


    No, she was being sarcastic. Read her again--IN CONTEXT, that ol' bugaboo of Mormons!
    "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
    "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
    "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
    "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
    "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Magdalena View Post

      Oh stop it. I didnt say any of that and you know it. Enough melodrama.
      Yes. You did. You said that by NOT correcting the misrepresentations, and defending the claim by going off on the red herring track.

      Tell me, Magdalena. Why did you feel compelled to defend this poster's amazingly ignorant claim? Why didn't you simply write "uh....the CoJCoLDS and the FLDS are two different belief systems, just like Catholicism and Calvary Chapel are two different belief systems?"

      Don't you think, for the sake of accuracy, it would have been a good idea?
      Cet animal est très méchant,
      Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

      Translation: "This animal is very bad; when you attack it, it defends itself."

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Craig View Post
        So the attack was Diana's fault because she should have known that Evangelicals are violent and would attack her on sight?
        That does seem to be the reasoning path being taken here, yeah.
        Cet animal est très méchant,
        Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

        Translation: "This animal is very bad; when you attack it, it defends itself."

        Comment


        • Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post



          My Bible testifies the meek will inherit the earth:

          Matthew 5:5--- King James Version (KJV)
          5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.



          So does mine. It was a joke, son.
          ~ There is life after mormonism, and it's good! Just stay close to Christ.
          ~ You can't follow Christ and false prophets at the same time.
          ~ "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

          Comment


          • Originally posted by dianaiad View Post

            Yes. You did. You said that by NOT correcting the misrepresentations, and defending the claim by going off on the red herring track.

            Tell me, Magdalena. Why did you feel compelled to defend this poster's amazingly ignorant claim? Why didn't you simply write "uh....the CoJCoLDS and the FLDS are two different belief systems, just like Catholicism and Calvary Chapel are two different belief systems?"

            Don't you think, for the sake of accuracy, it would have been a good idea?
            No, I didnt say that at all. Not even by not saying it. Thats ridiculous.

            Mormonism and FLDS are the same belief system. Some of their practices are different now, thats all. The FLDS stayed with what Joseph Smith taught. The Brigham Young group did too for a while, but then abandoned it in order to get statehood. Eventually some FLDS leaders took their practices off on an even more evil direction.

            The Brigham Young mormons have never wanted to be publicly associated with the FLDS. However, the mormon church has protected them in some ways. Mostly with the polygamy issue. Even though its illegal, no one was prosecuted for it unless there was major provable abuse involved. The mormon church has pretty much run the government in Utah, Arizona and Idaho since Brigham Young.
            ~ There is life after mormonism, and it's good! Just stay close to Christ.
            ~ You can't follow Christ and false prophets at the same time.
            ~ "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Magdalena View Post

              No, I didnt say that at all. Not even by not saying it. Thats ridiculous.

              Mormonism and FLDS are the same belief system. Some of their practices are different now, thats all. The FLDS stayed with what Joseph Smith taught. The Brigham Young group did too for a while, but then abandoned it in order to get statehood. Eventually some FLDS leaders took their practices off on an even more evil direction.

              The Brigham Young mormons have never wanted to be publicly associated with the FLDS. However, the mormon church has protected them in some ways. Mostly with the polygamy issue. Even though its illegal, no one was prosecuted for it unless there was major provable abuse involved. The mormon church has pretty much run the government in Utah, Arizona and Idaho since Brigham Young.
              Wow. Talk about misrepresentation, illogic and just plain being silly!

              You realize that Utah is the ONLY STATE IN THE UNION where polygamy is unconstitutional, not simply illegal?
              You realize that even so, every time the 'government' has attempted (within the last century, anyway) to crack down on polygamists, lawsuits ensue and the government LOSES?...and believe you me, it ain't the CHURCH doing the suing.

              You realize that RIGHT NOW, anti polygamy laws are unenforceable?

              But thank you for confirming my claim. You ARE saying that the CoJCoLDS and the FLDS are the 'same belief system."

              "Mormonism" is the larger group in which both groups loosely fit, just like the Westboro Baptists and Episcopalians both fit in the 'Protestant" group. That doesn't make them the same, though, does it?

              You aren't going to go around claiming that every Baptist in the world believes what the Westboro group does, are you? That would, indeed, be illogical and false. Just like the way you and the Barrd are claiming that the CoJCoLDS and the FLDS are the same thing because they both fit in the 'Mormonism' section of the "Restorationist" classification of Christianity.

              You may as well claim that because a Buggati Chiron (2.5 million) and a riding mower are both motor vehicles, that they are the same thing as one another. They aren't.



              the thing is, Magdalena, in this one post you said you didn't make the claim....and then you went and made the claim.

              .................................and you folks get all up in arms because I say that the folks who threw rocks at me and the really nice people in the Presbyterian church who would rather bathe in worm castings than do such a thing are both Christians.

              Do, please, make up your mind.
              Cet animal est très méchant,
              Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

              Translation: "This animal is very bad; when you attack it, it defends itself."

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Magdalena View Post

                No, I didnt say that at all. Not even by not saying it. Thats ridiculous.

                Mormonism and FLDS are the same belief system. Some of their practices are different now, thats all. The FLDS stayed with what Joseph Smith taught. The Brigham Young group did too for a while, but then abandoned it in order to get statehood. Eventually some FLDS leaders took their practices off on an even more evil direction.

                The Brigham Young mormons have never wanted to be publicly associated with the FLDS. However, the mormon church has protected them in some ways. Mostly with the polygamy issue. Even though its illegal, no one was prosecuted for it unless there was major provable abuse involved. The mormon church has pretty much run the government in Utah, Arizona and Idaho since Brigham Young.
                That was just too obvious.

                Dianaiad accused you of conflating the Church with Warren Jeffs' group.

                You denied it....

                and in the very next sentence claimed they were the same.

                "No, you Honor, I didn't steal that car and if the tree hadn't come out of nowhere I wouldn't have dented the side, either."

                Comment


                • Originally posted by JustaLurker View Post

                  That was just too obvious.

                  Dianaiad accused you of conflating the Church with Warren Jeffs' group.

                  You denied it....

                  and in the very next sentence claimed they were the same.

                  "No, you Honor, I didn't steal that car and if the tree hadn't come out of nowhere I wouldn't have dented the side, either."
                  Warren Jeff's cult is based on the early teachings of Mormonism. Utahites are a reformed form of Mormonism, almost like a warmed-over Methodism with some heresy.
                  Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

                    Warren Jeff's cult is based on the early teachings of Mormonism. Utahites are a reformed form of Mormonism, almost like a warmed-over Methodism with some heresy.
                    Westboro Baptist is based on Protestant and Evangelical teachings of the Bible. So is Calvary Chapel. They are as alike as Jeffs' group is to the LDS.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                      Most of the theology espoused here seems to center on an "out of context" joke, IMO:

                      James 2:24 ---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
                      24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.



                      Also there never was such a practice of exaltation by temple ordinances in the ante-Nicene Church of Christ. That means that Mormon temple ordinances are totally man-made and never were authorized by God. The Aaronic priesthood was never a part of the Church of Christ, because the blood sacrifices that the true Aaronic priesthood had to offer daily & on feasts are all fulfilled in Christ. The Melchizedek priesthood was never passed on to another human, so it was a type of the King-Priest that the Messiah would return as during His millennial reign.

                      Romans 3:27-28
                      King James Version (KJV)


                      27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

                      28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

                      Romans 5:8-10
                      King James Version (KJV)


                      8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

                      9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

                      10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


                      Galatians 2:16
                      King James Version (KJV)


                      16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.


                      Galatians 3:10-12
                      King James Version (KJV)


                      10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

                      11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

                      12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
                      .


                      Galatians 5:4
                      King James Version (KJV)


                      4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

                      Titus 3:7-8
                      King James Version (KJV)


                      7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

                      8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
                      .

                      Romans 9:32-33
                      King James Version (KJV)


                      32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

                      33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

                      Romans 11:5-6
                      King James Version (KJV)


                      5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

                      6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

                      I don't believe that James and Paul were at odds with each other; I simply believe that Mormons misinterpret the plain sense of the scriptures. James was giving an expository sermon to his flock to get them to repent and redirect their behavior. He was never alluding to a man-made system of works like one finds in Mormonism, because James explained how he expected his congregation to act in his epistle. Paul wrote at least 13 epistles, 7 of which are uncontested. Paul was a consummate theologian. Paul spent three years at Sinai where he may have had his heavenly vision. While I consider both the epistle of James and all the epistles of Paul to be scripture, Paul was the far better theologian of the two.


                      "You have just constructed a straw man so large you could burn it in the desert and hold an annoying festival around it"


                      "One's personal world view can be so powerful that it blinds them to any evidence that contradicts it"

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by desertscout View Post

                        Also there never was such a practice of exaltation by temple ordinances in the ante-Nicene Church of Christ. That means that Mormon temple ordinances are totally man-made and never were authorized by God. The Aaronic priesthood was never a part of the Church of Christ, because the blood sacrifices that the true Aaronic priesthood had to offer daily & on feasts are all fulfilled in Christ. The Melchizedek priesthood was never passed on to another human, so it was a type of the King-Priest that the Messiah would return as during His millennial reign.



                        I don't believe that James and Paul were at odds with each other; I simply believe that Mormons misinterpret the plain sense of the scriptures. James was giving an expository sermon to his flock to get them to repent and redirect their behavior. He was never alluding to a man-made system of works like one finds in Mormonism, because James explained how he expected his congregation to act in his epistle. Paul wrote at least 13 epistles, 7 of which are uncontested. Paul was a consummate theologian. Paul spent three years at Sinai where he may have had his heavenly vision. While I consider both the epistle of James and all the epistles of Paul to be scripture, Paul was the far better theologian of the two.

                        I agree. James was simply trying to point out some serious issues in his congregation - treating the wealthy better (you find this in Mormonism); an unfruitful lifestyle. It is directed TO Christians, while Paul's soteriological work is directed toward those who need to be saved.
                        Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by dianaiad View Post

                          Wow. Talk about misrepresentation, illogic and just plain being silly!

                          You realize that Utah is the ONLY STATE IN THE UNION where polygamy is unconstitutional, not simply illegal?
                          You realize that even so, every time the 'government' has attempted (within the last century, anyway) to crack down on polygamists, lawsuits ensue and the government LOSES?...and believe you me, it ain't the CHURCH doing the suing.

                          You realize that RIGHT NOW, anti polygamy laws are unenforceable?

                          But thank you for confirming my claim. You ARE saying that the CoJCoLDS and the FLDS are the 'same belief system."

                          "Mormonism" is the larger group in which both groups loosely fit, just like the Westboro Baptists and Episcopalians both fit in the 'Protestant" group. That doesn't make them the same, though, does it?

                          You aren't going to go around claiming that every Baptist in the world believes what the Westboro group does, are you? That would, indeed, be illogical and false. Just like the way you and the Barrd are claiming that the CoJCoLDS and the FLDS are the same thing because they both fit in the 'Mormonism' section of the "Restorationist" classification of Christianity.

                          You may as well claim that because a Buggati Chiron (2.5 million) and a riding mower are both motor vehicles, that they are the same thing as one another. They aren't.



                          the thing is, Magdalena, in this one post you said you didn't make the claim....and then you went and made the claim.

                          .................................and you folks get all up in arms because I say that the folks who threw rocks at me and the really nice people in the Presbyterian church who would rather bathe in worm castings than do such a thing are both Christians.

                          Do, please, make up your mind.
                          If laws against polygamy are unenforceable, why aren't Mormons living in polygamy as they are commanded to do?
                          Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by dberrie2000 View Post

                            Most of the theology espoused here seems to center on an "out of context" joke, IMO:

                            James 2:24 ---New American Standard Bible (NASB)
                            24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.



                            Maybe you should lighten up a little. Its good for the soul.
                            ~ There is life after mormonism, and it's good! Just stay close to Christ.
                            ~ You can't follow Christ and false prophets at the same time.
                            ~ "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by dianaiad View Post

                              Wow. Talk about misrepresentation, illogic and just plain being silly!

                              You realize that Utah is the ONLY STATE IN THE UNION where polygamy is unconstitutional, not simply illegal?
                              You realize that even so, every time the 'government' has attempted (within the last century, anyway) to crack down on polygamists, lawsuits ensue and the government LOSES?...and believe you me, it ain't the CHURCH doing the suing.

                              You realize that RIGHT NOW, anti polygamy laws are unenforceable?

                              But thank you for confirming my claim. You ARE saying that the CoJCoLDS and the FLDS are the 'same belief system."

                              "Mormonism" is the larger group in which both groups loosely fit, just like the Westboro Baptists and Episcopalians both fit in the 'Protestant" group. That doesn't make them the same, though, does it?

                              You aren't going to go around claiming that every Baptist in the world believes what the Westboro group does, are you? That would, indeed, be illogical and false. Just like the way you and the Barrd are claiming that the CoJCoLDS and the FLDS are the same thing because they both fit in the 'Mormonism' section of the "Restorationist" classification of Christianity.

                              You may as well claim that because a Buggati Chiron (2.5 million) and a riding mower are both motor vehicles, that they are the same thing as one another. They aren't.



                              the thing is, Magdalena, in this one post you said you didn't make the claim....and then you went and made the claim.

                              .................................and you folks get all up in arms because I say that the folks who threw rocks at me and the really nice people in the Presbyterian church who would rather bathe in worm castings than do such a thing are both Christians.

                              Do, please, make up your mind.
                              My original post was about FLDS women, and your belief that God the Father wasnt always God.

                              You added all those unrelated accusations. I hadnt said any of that. I was responding to different parts of the discussion that you brought up. So dont claim Ive said things I didnt say. And dont claim that my silence on any issue has any meaning. If I want to give you my opinion on something, I will. If not, leave it alone.

                              ~ There is life after mormonism, and it's good! Just stay close to Christ.
                              ~ You can't follow Christ and false prophets at the same time.
                              ~ "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
                                If laws against polygamy are unenforceable, why aren't Mormons living in polygamy as they are commanded to do?
                                Your question assumes a false premise. We don't live in polygamy because we are forbidden to do so.

                                Comment

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