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I Guess MORMON Men Didn't Have to Be as Chaste as Women, At Least in 1931

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  • I Guess MORMON Men Didn't Have to Be as Chaste as Women, At Least in 1931

    Here are the vows taken by Mormons in their 1931 Temple Oaths:

    LAW OF CHASTITY FOR MEN "You and each of you do covenant and promise that you will not have sexual intercourse with any of the opposite sex except your lawful wife or wives who are given you by the holy priesthood." "All bow your heads and say yes." LAW FOR WOMEN "You and each of you do covenant and promise that you will not have sexual intercourse with any of the opposite sex save your lawful husband, given you by the holy priesthood." Notice the men promise not to have sex with any but their legal wife or wives given to them by the UN-holy priesthood. My underling. Women will not have sex with anyone other than their "lawful husband, given to them by the Un-holy priesthood. So we can see why Emma Smith was probably not happy with this set up. Men can have a bunch of women, but the wives are stuck with one guy. Probably under pressure from the women, this is today's vow regarding the "Law of Chastity": THE LAW OF CHASTITY (my underlining)

    And in today's version, after the 1990 changes:

    PETER: A couple will now come to the altar. (Witness Couple comes as before.) We are instructed to give unto you the law of Chastity; which is, that each of you shall have no sexual relations except with your husband or wife to whom you are legally and lawfully wedded.

    All please arise. (All patrons stand up.) Each of you bring your right arm to the square. You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses that you will observe and keep the Law of Chastity, as it has been explained to you. Each of you bow your head and say "yes."

    PATRONS: Yes.

    PETER: That will Do. (All patrons sit down.)

    Now, I guess this vow doesn't apply to the Celestial Kingdom where the new gods will be serviced by a bunch of new "wives."

    If people can't see the one-sided promises that used to be made, men vs. women, they are more blinded than I could believe.

    sources: http://packham.n4m.org/endow31.htm

    and http://mit.irr.org/mormon-temple-endowment-ceremony
    Last edited by Catherine Aurelia; 05-18-18, 11:20 AM.
    Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

  • #2
    Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
    Here are the vows taken by Mormons in their 1931 Temple Oaths:

    LAW OF CHASTITY FOR MEN "You and each of you do covenant and promise that you will not have sexual intercourse with any of the opposite sex except your lawful wife or wives who are given you by the holy priesthood." "All bow your heads and say yes." LAW FOR WOMEN "You and each of you do covenant and promise that you will not have sexual intercourse with any of the opposite sex save your lawful husband, given you by the holy priesthood." Notice the men promise not to have sex with any but their legal wife or wives given to them by the UN-holy priesthood. My underling. Women will not have sex with anyone other than their "lawful husband, given to them by the Un-holy priesthood. So we can see why Emma Smith was probably not happy with this set up. Men can have a bunch of women, but the wives are stuck with one guy. Probably under pressure from the women, this is today's vow regarding the "Law of Chastity": THE LAW OF CHASTITY (my underlining)

    And in today's version, after the 1990 changes:

    PETER: A couple will now come to the altar. (Witness Couple comes as before.) We are instructed to give unto you the law of Chastity; which is, that each of you shall have no sexual relations except with your husband or wife to whom you are legally and lawfully wedded.

    All please arise. (All patrons stand up.) Each of you bring your right arm to the square. You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses that you will observe and keep the Law of Chastity, as it has been explained to you. Each of you bow your head and say "yes."

    PATRONS: Yes.

    PETER: That will Do. (All patrons sit down.)

    Now, I guess this vow doesn't apply to the Celestial Kingdom where the new gods will be serviced by a bunch of new "wives."

    If people can't see the one-sided promises that used to be made, men vs. women, they are more blinded than I could believe.

    sources: http://packham.n4m.org/endow31.htm

    and http://mit.irr.org/mormon-temple-endowment-ceremony
    How is this out of step with christian patriarchal teachings?
    Salvation belongs to God

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Bluemayskye View Post

      How is this out of step with christian patriarchal teachings?
      Are you a Mormon, and which "patriarchal" teachings?
      Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

        Are you a Mormon, and which "patriarchal" teachings?
        What difference does it make whether the poster is a Mormon or not? Would s/he suddenly be speaking a foreign language? EDITED
        Last edited by Mod10; 05-22-18, 01:10 PM. Reason: rule 22; warning given
        Cet animal est très méchant,
        Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

        Translation: "This animal is very bad; when you attack it, it defends itself."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dianaiad View Post

          What difference does it make whether the poster is a Mormon or not? EDITED
          It makes a lot of difference, but a NON-CHRISTIAN would not understand.
          Last edited by Mod10; 05-22-18, 01:10 PM.
          Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

            It makes a lot of difference, but a NON-CHRISTIAN would not understand.
            Translation:

            This "non-Christian" does indeed understand, and you simply don't like the fact that she does.

            Oh...I AM a Christian, and here's the problem you have with that: either we both are Christians, or....I am and you aren't. That depends upon whether we use the definition of "Christian" that the entire English speaking world understands and uses, or the one you prefer.

            Cet animal est très méchant,
            Quand on l'attaque il se défend.

            Translation: "This animal is very bad; when you attack it, it defends itself."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Bluemayskye View Post

              How is this out of step with christian patriarchal teachings?
              It's kinda creepy to come back to a thread and find that the discussions has shifted to me. Just to clear up the gossip: I am an ex conservative Christian, agnostic universalist married man.

              Here's a snippet from a Christian blog with some of the patriarchial teachings I grew up with. Your personal experience may vary.

              However, if you examine the Scriptures closely, you will see that God places the greater burden on the woman to refuse the man. In the Old Testament law, a woman could be executed for not being a virgin when she was married, whereas there was no such punishment for a man that was not a virgin. I realize this goes against our modern “gender equality” ideas, but the Bible supports no such notion.
              My comment connecting to two religions (Mormon and Christian) has to do with imbalance. Neither wish to put it sounds plainly, but both simply prefer men. Sure they'll talk about "roles" and other nonsense, but it all comes down to men have higher positions with more power to continue making the imbalanced rules and treating women like high valued possessions..
              Last edited by CARM Admin; 05-20-18, 02:39 PM. Reason: two alerts/Universalism/link to blog not permitted
              Salvation belongs to God

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bluemayskye View Post

                It's kinda creepy to come back to a thread and find that the discussions has shifted to me. Just to clear up the gossip: I am an ex conservative Christian, agnostic universalist married man.

                Here's a snippet from a Christian blog with some of the patriarchial teachings I grew up with. Your personal experience may vary.



                My comment connecting to two religions (Mormon and Christian) has to do with imbalance. Neither wish to put it sounds plainly, but both simply prefer men. Sure they'll talk about "roles" and other nonsense, but it all comes down to men have higher positions with more power to continue making the imbalanced rules and treating women like high valued possessions.
                Universalism is a cult. In any case, we don't discuss it on CARM. I'll pray for you to return to Christ. He was certainly no chauvinist.
                Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

                  Universalism is a cult. In any case, we don't discuss it on CARM. I'll pray for you to return to Christ. He was certainly no chauvinist.
                  I never asked you to discuss universalism. Are you suggesting it is inappropriate for me to even mention it?

                  Either way, I never call Christ a chauvinist. I'm not sure where you gathered that. Both Mormon and Christian beliefs involve Christ and neither paint his as a chauvinist.
                  Salvation belongs to God

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bluemayskye

                    The difference to a Christian in this scenario is generally that someone who does not believe what Christian's believe is considered spiritually dead and incapable of understand what they understand.
                    If that were true what would be the point of conversation? For that matter what would be the point of sharing the gospel at all with anyone. Either they would be incapable of hearing/understanding or they would be regenerated by the spirit and already have the gospel so they have no need to receive it from you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JustaLurker View Post

                      If that were true what would be the point of conversation? For that matter what would be the point of sharing the gospel at all with anyone. Either they would be incapable of hearing/understanding or they would be regenerated by the spirit and already have the gospel so they have no need to receive it from you.
                      We do not know how spiritual regeneration works or the born from above experience and how many times the wind blows or where it comes from.

                      Thus, let us not judge where one is at spiritually because we do not know how the Spirit of God is at work in another whether they appear to be a Christian or not.

                      We can test the spirits to see if they be of God or not but the spirits at work in Souls are not souls we judge but spirits.

                      God bless you,

                      SeventhDay

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bluemayskye

                        When someone accepts the Jesus as represented by Christianity the are considered "born again" and receive the holy spirit. Anyone who has not gone through that process is considered "spiritually dead" and incapable of understanding Christian truth.

                        The various Christian perspectives regarding how this come to life in a believer are on display in Calvinism and arminianism section.
                        A Christian is born again by grace through faith. One way to ascertain if a person is regenerated would be by asking them if they love the Brethren. That would be the Body of Christ. Do you?
                        Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bluemayskye View Post

                          I never asked you to discuss universalism. Are you suggesting it is inappropriate for me to even mention it?

                          Yes, it would be.

                          Either way, I never call Christ a chauvinist. I'm not sure where you gathered that. Both Mormon and Christian beliefs involve Christ and neither paint his as a chauvinist.
                          Maybe your crack about patriarchalism. Christians have differing views, as You might know. Some ordain women and allow them to teach. Some do not. However, no Christians believe that their husband has to resurrect them, or teach that a Christian woman must share her husband in the hereafter with a bunch of women who never got to be the "wives" of Mormon priests. You came out of a very conservative background, right? Maybe you could discuss that on another forum. Being from an Episcopal background, I'm sure no legalist, nor do I believe in legalism. It's not appropriate. however, to discuss that here. Mormons deny Jesus Christ as God the Son, believing their "jesus" to be the first born spirit of polygamous gods, Satan being his brother. Please understand that we are to tell the truth about Mormonism. And one central truth is this: Mormons reject the Biblical Christ. Learn the difference.

                          The point being made in the OP is that the Mormon male can have "wives," as opposed to one wife, as in Christianity. That's a big difference, and that seems to have gone over your head in your eagerness to try and identify Mormon patriarchalism with Christianity.
                          Last edited by Catherine Aurelia; 05-20-18, 04:22 PM.
                          Christian scholar John MacArthur about Mormonism: “Mormonism is wrong in epic proportions.”

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dianaiad View Post

                            What difference does it make whether the poster is a Mormon or not? Would s/he suddenly be speaking a foreign language? Would you couch your response with more invective if it turns out that s/he IS a Mormon?

                            What if s/he isn't?
                            No--Evangelicals aren't supposed to debate each other on here. Or interfere with evangelizing Mormons on here, either, according to the rules. I went back and checked them. Rule 24, I think it is. And I just saw where the new guy says he is a Universalist, which is a forbidden topic on CARM. And Christians shouldn't be debating Universalists on here, either.

                            Yep, here is rule 24:

                            Evangelism:
                            1. Regular Users/meaning not Atheist/ that attempt to interfere with Christian evangelism, like, Christians/arguing with Christians on Secular or Cult, Religion forums, will be suspended or directed to appropriate board. If two Christians want to debate each other, do not do so on the Mormon/JW/cult/RC forums but use the cult/religion forums to debate the cultists/not the other Christians. Please stick to the topic of the forum debating those defending the religion they are promoting on that forum. Posters seeking to debate Evangelical Christians should take their discussions or questions to the appropriate forum, apologetics/etc. Atheists/Agnostics/Secularists or those continuing to debate Evangelicals on the inappropriate forums, will be assigned to the ATH/AGN/Secular forums as a Secular Member. Secular Members are permitted to debate Christians on Secular Forums. (edit to add for understanding, the rule is that Cultists/other Religions may debate Christians on their forum topic, the group represented on the forum they are posting for debate, but if wanting to disagree with other Christians in debate, Christians should take that to APO or other forums.)
                            I am not trying to nanny the boards or anything, just giving out information. But I suspect that this is why CA asked the question she did of bluemayskye.
                            Last edited by Bonnie; 05-20-18, 04:32 PM.
                            "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                            "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                            "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                            "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
                            "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bluemayskye

                              Women who commit adultry must be stoned. Men don't have to worry about that.

                              Women are not allowed to have any authority over men.

                              Women must keep their heads covered.

                              Women must not speak or teach in church.

                              Women's breasts must always satisfy their husbands. No requirements for men to satisfy their wives.

                              I could provide more if I wasn't gonna be late for church!
                              Actually in the Law of Moses, I think both men and women could be stoned for adultery. Leviticus 20:10 says (NASB): "If there is a man who commits adultery with another man's wife, one who commits adultery with his friend's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death."

                              However, we are no longer under the Law of Moses but under grace. We can now be forgiven of such sins if we go to Jesus with a contrite heart for "if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. But if we confess our sins, God, who is merciful and just, will forgive us our sin and cleanse us of all unrighteousness (1 John 1).

                              And women are not allowed to have authority over men IN CHURCH. Outside the church and the family is another matter. Lydia was a wealthy women and a seller of purple and must have been in a position of power over men in her business--but Paul never told her to give up her business and leave the running of the business to men.

                              What does this have to do with Mormonism?
                              Last edited by Bonnie; 05-20-18, 04:34 PM.
                              "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                              "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                              "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                              "The truth may hurt for a little while, but a lie hurts forever."--anonymous
                              "If Jesus isn't THE WAY, then there is nothing else."--Bob

                              Comment

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