"Shape Shifters" and Mormonism

[Guest]

In Native American mythology, beings can change their shapes - from human to bear, or bear to cougar, etc. They are shape shifters! What does this have to do with Mormonism? Why we can see here the same belief manifested in how Mormons practice "word shifting," known in the Bible as "Twisting the Scriptures."


There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. Peter 3:15

What is even worse is when there is something NOT HARD TO UNDERSTAND which the Mormons spin and twist until the meaning of the Scripture is exactly opposite of what it teaches. The consequence of doing so is DESTRUCTION, for they willfully twist God's Words.

One example of this is Isa. 43:10: "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

A fifth grader, reading that verse would say, "hey, there never was a god before or after YHWH." It's pretty straight forward. Yet the Mormons, who are committed to defending the worst heresies of all (Jesus is Satan's brother; Jesus was begotten by a sexual act between Elohim and Mary, etc.) are able to read that verse and try to spin it to serve the teachings of the Kingdom of Darkness. Not only do they ignore that this is YHWH (Jehovah) speaking and the fact that in their mythology YHWH is the O.T. Mormon-jesus, they totally ignore the implications of this verse. If YHWH is telling the truth, then He alone is the ONLY God, no god has existed before him, or will after him. But, if you are a Mormon "scripture twister," you try to make this verse mean that this means there were billions of gods before and after YHWH was created, and that Elohim, another god, certainly did exist. Even though further on in Scripture YHWH says he knows of no other god

Look at this verse in Isa. 44L6 Thus says the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.

To a Trinitarian who understands the triunity of the One God, this proves that YHWH of Israel has sent a redeemer (Jesus), and that YHWH is Father Who sends the Redeemer, Jesus, into the world, and they are ONE God.

Since Mormons believe YHWH is Jesus, this verse makes no sense unless YHWH is God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Yet, they will somehow twist it.

Mormons are Scripture Twisters, paving the road to their own destruction with their deception.

Mormons are WORD SHIFTERS.

[Guest]

In Native American mythology, beings can change their shapes - from human to bear, or bear to cougar, etc. They are shape shifters! What does this have to do with Mormonism? Why we can see here the same belief manifested in how Mormons practice "word shifting," known in the Bible as "Twisting the Scriptures."


There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. Peter 3:15

What is even worse is when there is something NOT HARD TO UNDERSTAND which the Mormons spin and twist until the meaning of the Scripture is exactly opposite of what it teaches. The consequence of doing so is DESTRUCTION, for they willfully twist God's Words.

One example of this is Isa. 43:10: "Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

A fifth grader, reading that verse would say, "hey, there never was a god before or after YHWH." It's pretty straight forward. Yet the Mormons, who are committed to defending the worst heresies of all (Jesus is Satan's brother; Jesus was begotten by a sexual act between Elohim and Mary, etc.) are able to read that verse and try to spin it to serve the teachings of the Kingdom of Darkness. Not only do they ignore that this is YHWH (Jehovah) speaking and the fact that in their mythology YHWH is the O.T. Mormon-jesus, they totally ignore the implications of this verse. If YHWH is telling the truth, then He alone is the ONLY God, no god has existed before him, or will after him. But, if you are a Mormon "scripture twister," you try to make this verse mean that this means there were billions of gods before and after YHWH was created, and that Elohim, another god, certainly did exist. Even though further on in Scripture YHWH says he knows of no other god

Look at this verse in Isa. 44L6 Thus says the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and besides me there is no God.

To a Trinitarian who understands the triunity of the One God, this proves that YHWH of Israel has sent a redeemer (Jesus), and that YHWH is Father Who sends the Redeemer, Jesus, into the world, and they are ONE God.

Since Mormons believe YHWH is Jesus, this verse makes no sense unless YHWH is God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Yet, they will somehow twist it.

Mormons are Scripture Twisters, paving the road to their own destruction with their deception.

Mormons are WORD SHIFTERS.

Well, Mormons - what do you have to say?

[dianaiad]

Well, Mormons - what do you have to say?

uh,,,I hope your Fourth of July was a really fun one?

[Guest]

uh,,,I hope your Fourth of July was a really fun one?

Actually I had a great barbecue with a lot of friends. Flags abounded. But you Mormons don't expect us to ignore your attack on Christianity because it is some Mormon holiday, do you? If you can't respond (and the above sarcasm proves you can), with honest rebuttals, don't bother.

[dianaiad]

Actually I had a great barbecue with a lot of friends. Flags abounded. But you Mormons don't expect us to ignore your attack on Christianity because it is some Mormon holiday, do you? If you can't respond (and the above sarcasm proves you can), with honest rebuttals, don't bother.

Independence day is a "Mormon holiday?"

Only in that Mormons celebrate it...TOO. You may have that confused with July 24th, which IS a Mormon (and a Utah state) holiday. You know, the date where we celebrate the arrival of the pioneers into the Utah Valley, where they would make their future homes...commemorated by that oft misquoted phrase by Brigham Young "This is the right place." (people....and I suspect Democrats...keep kicking the word 'right' out of it).

This particular holiday was made possible by all those loving and neighborly people who threw the Mormons completely out of the nation we love, the independence of which we celebrated yesterday. It was a national holiday; a holiday that had been celebrated for 54 years before Joseph Smith organized the church in 1830.

I am descended, personally, from John and Abigail Adams. My family has been in America for close to five hundred years, and I count in my ancestry a whole bunch of men and women who fought for their country (right down to my father) and who have given their "lives [their] fortunes, and [their] sacred honor." Every other Mormon citizen of the US has the same exact claim to both holidays that I do, and the same claim to the right to celebrate Independence Day that you do.

But I do thank you for the kind thought that Independence Day is a "Mormon Holiday," because I suppose it is. It's just not exclusive to us.

[Guest]

Independence day is a "Mormon holiday?"

Only in that Mormons celebrate it...TOO. You may have that confused with July 24th, which IS a Mormon (and a Utah state) holiday. You know, the date where we celebrate the arrival of the pioneers into the Utah Valley, where they would make their future homes...commemorated by that oft misquoted phrase by Brigham Young "This is the right place." (people....and I suspect Democrats...keep kicking the word 'right' out of it).

This particular holiday was made possible by all those loving and neighborly people who threw the Mormons completely out of the nation we love, the independence of which we celebrated yesterday. It was a national holiday; a holiday that had been celebrated for 54 years before Joseph Smith organized the church in 1830.

I am descended, personally, from John and Abigail Adams. My family has been in America for close to five hundred years, and I count in my ancestry a whole bunch of men and women who fought for their country (right down to my father) and who have given their "lives [their] fortunes, and [their] sacred honor." Every other Mormon citizen of the US has the same exact claim to both holidays that I do, and the same claim to the right to celebrate Independence Day that you do.

But I do thank you for the kind thought that Independence Day is a "Mormon Holiday," because I suppose it is. It's just not exclusive to us.

Isn't it celebrated in conjunction with "Pioneer Day," commemorating all the poor Mormons who lost their lives walking the prairies with carts? At Brigham's suggestion? Pioneer Day is on the 24th right? By the way, nobody threw your cult out of America, your cult voluntarily left so that Smith's followers could practice polygamy as taught by Smith. How about your ancestors, dianaiad. Didn't they practice polygamy? I think you've mentioned that. Could you show us from the Bible or Book of Mormon why that was a Mormon practice - or simply admit that it was a deviant practice that grew up in your cult due to Smith's sexual proclivities?.....and that later your cult did away with it because they were embarrassed by the practice, and the cult was about to lose a whole lot of its wealth if it didn't comply with Federal Law.

A convenient religion! It's doctrines can change at the drop of a coin!

[Guest]

Independence day is a "Mormon holiday?"

Only in that Mormons celebrate it...TOO. You may have that confused with July 24th, which IS a Mormon (and a Utah state) holiday. You know, the date where we celebrate the arrival of the pioneers into the Utah Valley, where they would make their future homes...commemorated by that oft misquoted phrase by Brigham Young "This is the right place." (people....and I suspect Democrats...keep kicking the word 'right' out of it).

This particular holiday was made possible by all those loving and neighborly people who threw the Mormons completely out of the nation we love, the independence of which we celebrated yesterday. It was a national holiday; a holiday that had been celebrated for 54 years before Joseph Smith organized the church in 1830.

I am descended, personally, from John and Abigail Adams. My family has been in America for close to five hundred years, and I count in my ancestry a whole bunch of men and women who fought for their country (right down to my father) and who have given their "lives [their] fortunes, and [their] sacred honor." Every other Mormon citizen of the US has the same exact claim to both holidays that I do, and the same claim to the right to celebrate Independence Day that you do.

But I do thank you for the kind thought that Independence Day is a "Mormon Holiday," because I suppose it is. It's just not exclusive to us.

I've never denied that modern Mormons are patriotic. I do, think, however that their earlier hatred of the Federal Government led directly to the Mountain Meadows massacre. Smith and Young were traitors to this country if you ask me. I'm glad Mormonism has abandoned their attempts to overthrow our American system of government.

http://www.mormonthink.com/grantpalmer/grant8.htm

http://www.truthandgrace.com/1857BYDeclaration0915.htm

[dianaiad]

Isn't it celebrated in conjunction with "Pioneer Day," commemorating all the poor Mormons who lost their lives walking the prairies with carts?

Nope. Two entirely separate holidays. They come in the same month, but they aren't the same. My father's B-day is in July, as well. Does that mean that I must celebrate his birthday 'in conjunction with..." either one?

At Brigham's suggestion? Pioneer Day is on the 24th right?

It is, yes.

By the way, nobody threw your cult out of America, your cult voluntarily left so that Smith's followers could practice polygamy as taught by Smith.

Oh, good grief. EXTERMINATION ORDER, CA. You know...that lovely order in which Mormons were made legal prey and ordered to leave the state by a certain date or else they could be shot on sight? The one that wasn't rescinded until 1976? Just how much history revising did you have to do to come up with how the Mormons left 'voluntarily?" Are you of the opinion that deciding to leave rather than to be shot is a 'voluntary' decision to leave?

I have to admit, that's a new one on me. Kind of like a kidnap/robbery defendant claimed that the hostage he took at the bank wasn't really kidnapped, because she left with him voluntarily; she COULD have chosen to let him kill her, instead.

Great Googly Moogly, CA. Every time I think I've seen it all, you come up with something like this.

How about your ancestors, dianaiad. Didn't they practice polygamy?

Yep, three of my four sets of great grandparents were polygamists. Quite happy in that life, too, until the Feds decided to 'rescue' the wives involved. So were yours, CA. It's just that mine are a bit closer in time than yours...but I can guarantee that if you go far enough back in your family tree, you'll find a polygamist or two. Or a thief or two, or a murderer, or a bunch of 'em 'born on the wrong side of the blanket,' so to speak, or pagans or Catholics or.....

We all have those. I haven't seen a single family tree that was NOT graced by, er...scapegraces...

I think you've mentioned that. Could you show us from the Bible or Book of Mormon why that was a Mormon practice - or simply admit that it was a deviant practice that grew up in your cult due to Smith's sexual proclivities?.....and that later your cult did away with it because they were

embarrassed by the practice, and the cult was about to lose a whole lot of its wealth if it didn't comply with Federal Law.

A convenient religion! It's doctrines can change at the drop of a coin!

Your opinion of our practices and policies is yours. I don't share it. And yes, policies and our understanding of things change. That's the whole POINT of having modern revelation.

At least we can point to revelation. What's the excuse of Christianity as a whole, which has changed so much over the years? Y'all claim that everything you do is biblical, but so does every other Christian who does things differently from you. Celibate Priesthood? Celibate everybody? Ordaining women, not ordaining women, putting people in stocks for not making it to church on Sunday, the Inquisition? Witch hunts? the Crusades?

What excuses do you have for all of those differences?

[dianaiad]

I've never denied that modern Mormons are patriotic. I do, think, however that their earlier hatred of the Federal Government led directly to the Mountain Meadows massacre. Smith and Young were traitors to this country if you ask me. I'm glad Mormonism has abandoned their attempts to overthrow our American system of government.

http://www.mormonthink.com/grantpalmer/grant8.htm

http://www.truthandgrace.com/1857BYDeclaration0915.htm

Yes you have. You have outright told us that Mormons have no right to celebrate Independence Day, and you began at least one thread with that theme. The title was "July 4th for Christians not Mormons.

Revising history is a problem, CA, but revising one's own posting history is a bit over the top, don't you think?

[Guest]

Yes you have. You have outright told us that Mormons have no right to celebrate Independence Day, and you began at least one thread with that theme. The title was "July 4th for Christians not Mormons.

Revising history is a problem, CA, but revising one's own posting history is a bit over the top, don't you think?

Boy, I've seen some twisting, but your reference to my thread about how YOU MORMONS baptized the signers of the Declaration of Independence into your cult (including a relative of mine), and trying to twist it to say that Mormons aren't patriotic takes the cake. How dishonest to try and use that thread to prove your position (that I believe Mormons aren't patriotic). You know what that thread was about - your cult baptizing famous dead people. As far as the truth and grace thing goes, I believe it demonstrates how very destitute Bring'em Young was of any patriotism at all. If you think it was right to go to war against this country, .....well what does that say? You tell us.

[Guest]

Nope. Two entirely separate holidays. They come in the same month, but they aren't the same. My father's B-day is in July, as well. Does that mean that I must celebrate his birthday 'in conjunction with..." either one?



It is, yes.



Oh, good grief. EXTERMINATION ORDER, CA. You know...that lovely order in which Mormons were made legal prey and ordered to leave the state by a certain date or else they could be shot on sight? The one that wasn't rescinded until 1976? Just how much history revising did you have to do to come up with how the Mormons left 'voluntarily?" Are you of the opinion that deciding to leave rather than to be shot is a 'voluntary' decision to leave?

I have to admit, that's a new one on me. Kind of like a kidnap/robbery defendant claimed that the hostage he took at the bank wasn't really kidnapped, because she left with him voluntarily; she COULD have chosen to let him kill her, instead.

Great Googly Moogly, CA. Every time I think I've seen it all, you come up with something like this.



Yep, three of my four sets of great grandparents were polygamists. Quite happy in that life, too, until the Feds decided to 'rescue' the wives involved. So were yours, CA. It's just that mine are a bit closer in time than yours...but I can guarantee that if you go far enough back in your family tree, you'll find a polygamist or two. Or a thief or two, or a murderer, or a bunch of 'em 'born on the wrong side of the blanket,' so to speak, or pagans or Catholics or.....

We all have those. I haven't seen a single family tree that was NOT graced by, er...scapegraces...





Your opinion of our practices and policies is yours. I don't share it. And yes, policies and our understanding of things change. That's the whole POINT of having modern revelation.

At least we can point to revelation. What's the excuse of Christianity as a whole, which has changed so much over the years? Y'all claim that everything you do is biblical, but so does every other Christian who does things differently from you. Celibate Priesthood? Celibate everybody? Ordaining women, not ordaining women, putting people in stocks for not making it to church on Sunday, the Inquisition? Witch hunts? the Crusades?

What excuses do you have for all of those differences?

Who gave the first "extermination" order, dianaiad? Do you have memory problems? Does this prompt your memory: http://www.mormonthink.com/glossary/extermination.htm

I guess you cultists just think we should ignore those kind of threats, right dianaiad?

How many Mormons were outright murdered by your Danites for disagreeing with the god, Smith?

PS: Fortunately, for me, my ancestors were monogamist Christians - which is one reason I'm here standing against the evil called Mormonism and for the integrity of the Word of God, while Mormons are here attacking the Church founded by Christ and mocking Christian morality regarding marriage.

Now y'all have a nice day. Hear that?

[NRA-Jeff]

I've never denied that modern Mormons are patriotic.

Really? Then who said that no one should vote for an LDS person for any elected office, especially POTUS, because LDS people can't be trusted to do what's best for their country?

Who said that she wouldn't even vote to elect an LDS person for the office of city dog catcher?

If she thought LDS people were patriotic, would she distrust LDS people who run for office to that paranoiac extent?

[dianaiad]

Who gave the first "extermination" order, dianaiad? Do you have memory problems? Does this prompt your memory: http://www.mormonthink.com/glossary/extermination.htm

I guess you cultists just think we should ignore those kind of threats, right dianaiad?

How many Mormons were outright murdered by your Danites for disagreeing with the god, Smith?

PS: Fortunately, for me, my ancestors were monogamist Christians - which is one reason I'm here standing against the evil called Mormonism and for the integrity of the Word of God, while Mormons are here attacking the Church founded by Christ and mocking Christian morality regarding marriage.

Now y'all have a nice day. Hear that?

You wrote that the 4th of July was for Christians, not Mormons. IMPLICIT in that is the statement that we have no right to celebrate, that we have no right to be patriotic, and indeed are not. that was a very long thread and nowhere IN that thread did you object to that implicit idea. In fact, you just kept doubling down on it.

So stop this.

.....and you really ARE equating the Extermination Order with a speech in which someone claimed that IF the Mormons were attacked, they would defend themselves, strongly?

Sometimes, Catherine, I do wonder about what sort of logic allows that level of thinking. Really. I do.