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It’s ok to disagree with a prophet...JFS

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  • Originally posted by oceancoast View Post
    Non sequitur to my post.. but Thanks.. this CONFIRMS my point.. Perhaps you didn't read it .. or perhaps you don't understand what you are reading.. Perhaps your attempting to inject your creative meaning into Milton Hunters words.. what ever it is, it's not contradicting anything I said.

    Oh yes, BTW.. Milton Hunters book is not Scripture.. and can't be seen as that either.
    Yes it is, it reads there is no other way OC...and It is not Scripture, it is a official PH teaching manual interpreting scripture to the PH quorums.

    From the forward...

    When this book was written, the following comments and recommendations were made by certain members of the General Authorities of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: Elder Milton R. Hunter of the First Council of the Seventy has given to the . . . Church a book that fills a long-felt want. The fact that certain doctrines like the fall of man, the atonement and crucifixion of a Savior, and many other principles taught in the Gospel are found in the teachings of many ancient peoples long before the birth of Jesus Christ, has led many uninspired scholars to conclude that the teachings of Christianity are merely a borrowed religion taken from these ancient sources. Elder Hunter has pointed out that all of these doctrines were taught to Adam in the beginning and were perpetuated by Noah and his descendants after the flood. Therefore, the traditions in the nations are, in fact, distorted remnants of these truths as they were originally revealed by the Lord to his ancient servants and the traditions of the people, after they broke away from the truth and have been perpetuated among nations in all parts of the earth. That this book will meet with popular approval and will be very beneficial and enlightening there can be no doubt. I heartily recommend it to all.

    ELDER JOSEPH FIELDING SMITH President of the Council of the Twelve The Gospel Through the Ages will prove to be a timely, instructive and stimulating book. Students of the Gospel will find it invaluable as a reference book. In fact, every home might well consider it a valuable addition to the family library for the use of young and old.

    ELDER EZRA TAFT BENSON Secretary of Agriculture, U.S.A. The Gospel Through the Ages is based upon the doctrine, unique to Mormonism, that the Gospel was revealed to Adam, the first man. The author proceeds to show how that man, yielding to the temptations of the evil one, soon corrupted the simple doctrines of the Gospel, and that this explains the fragments of truth found in nearly all religions. Such departure from the original and later revelations led to a succession of apostasies from and restorations of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, culminating in the last restoration in these days. In developing this historical truth, nearly every gospel principle is passed in review. It is a fascinating theme, unusually well organized organized and written by Dr. Hunter, a member of the First Council of the Seventy, and a notable historical scholar. . . . This book will . . . find a permanent place in every Latter-day Saint's library, for gospel information and reference.

    ELDER JOHN A. WIDTSOE Improvement Era (January, 1946, p. 48) The careful study of The Gospel Through the Ages will afford enduring satisfaction and welcome aid to the Priesthood members who are ministers of Jesus Christ. The bearers of the message of peace will be fortified with a fuller understanding of what they teach and affirm in the spirit of power and love. . . . This ably written and comprehensive treatise will help the preachers of righteousness . . . in making proclamation of the Restored Gospel. .

    ELDER CHARLES A. CALLIS This book, The Gospel Through the Ages, is an historical and careful survey of the plan of salvation as it has been known in the different periods of human history from days of Adam to the present time. Dr. Hunter's book has all the interest and appeal of high literary and scholarly merit . . .

    Hunter, Milton R.. Gospel Through the Ages (Kindle Locations 9-33). Deseret Book Company. Kindle Edition.

    Are you saying you know better that these men?



    But there has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation. It has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn-dodger for a wedge, and a pumpkin for a beetle. Even the Saints are slow to understand. Joseph Smith...

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Ralf View Post

      Obstructing ...hmmm.... do you block gays and lesbians from partaking in all of the Sacramental and Pastoral privileges of the members and leaders of your church? are they allowed all the privileges, ordinances and rituals of your church Mag? if so why, if not then you may want to look at the scriptures and see what God says.... now these kids are not being accused of anything... they are always encouraged to come to church and partake of Sacrament and attend all the same classes as the other kids....permission has to be given by the parents for children to be baptized...
      I wonder what they might say when told their child has to renounce the life style of their parents .... I wonder if the parents would still give permission for their child to be baptized... or just maybe they would tell the child that there is noting wrong with how they live and its the Churches fault they are bringing contention into the family...hmmmm.... it just maybe a now win situation Mag... guilty if you do and guilty if you dont.....
      No, my church doesnt exclude anyone. All are welcome to participate in any activity or ordinance. Our job is to love people. Forgiveness is between them and God.
      ~ There is life after mormonism, and it's good! Just stay close to Christ.
      ~ You can't follow Christ and false prophets at the same time.
      ~ "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Markk View Post

        Yes it is, it reads there is no other way OC...and It is not Scripture, it is a official PH teaching manual interpreting scripture to the PH quorums.
        Yes, there is no other way except by obedience to the Gospel and its principals..Do you think there is another way?.. even a way to be saved? If you didn't get that message from the paragraph.. I would run, not walk to the nearest English language and comprehension class.

        From the forward...

        When this book was written, the following comments and recommendations were made by certain members of the General Authorities of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints: Elder Milton R. Hunter of the First Council of the Seventy has given to the . . . Church a book that fills a long-felt want. The fact that certain doctrines like the fall of man, the atonement and crucifixion of a Savior, and many other principles taught in the Gospel are found in the teachings of many ancient peoples long before the birth of Jesus Christ, has led many uninspired scholars to conclude that the teachings of Christianity are merely a borrowed religion taken from these ancient sources. Elder Hunter has pointed out that all of these doctrines were taught to Adam in the beginning and were perpetuated by Noah and his descendants after the flood. Therefore, the traditions in the nations are, in fact, distorted remnants of these truths as they were originally revealed by the Lord to his ancient servants and the traditions of the people, after they broke away from the truth and have been perpetuated among nations in all parts of the earth. That this book will meet with popular approval and will be very beneficial and enlightening there can be no doubt. I heartily recommend it to all.

        ELDER JOSEPH FIELDING SMITH President of the Council of the Twelve The Gospel Through the Ages will prove to be a timely, instructive and stimulating book. Students of the Gospel will find it invaluable as a reference book. In fact, every home might well consider it a valuable addition to the family library for the use of young and old.

        ELDER EZRA TAFT BENSON Secretary of Agriculture, U.S.A. The Gospel Through the Ages is based upon the doctrine, unique to Mormonism, that the Gospel was revealed to Adam, the first man. The author proceeds to show how that man, yielding to the temptations of the evil one, soon corrupted the simple doctrines of the Gospel, and that this explains the fragments of truth found in nearly all religions. Such departure from the original and later revelations led to a succession of apostasies from and restorations of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, culminating in the last restoration in these days. In developing this historical truth, nearly every gospel principle is passed in review. It is a fascinating theme, unusually well organized organized and written by Dr. Hunter, a member of the First Council of the Seventy, and a notable historical scholar. . . . This book will . . . find a permanent place in every Latter-day Saint's library, for gospel information and reference.

        ELDER JOHN A. WIDTSOE Improvement Era (January, 1946, p. 48) The careful study of The Gospel Through the Ages will afford enduring satisfaction and welcome aid to the Priesthood members who are ministers of Jesus Christ. The bearers of the message of peace will be fortified with a fuller understanding of what they teach and affirm in the spirit of power and love. . . . This ably written and comprehensive treatise will help the preachers of righteousness . . . in making proclamation of the Restored Gospel. .

        ELDER CHARLES A. CALLIS This book, The Gospel Through the Ages, is an historical and careful survey of the plan of salvation as it has been known in the different periods of human history from days of Adam to the present time. Dr. Hunter's book has all the interest and appeal of high literary and scholarly merit . . .

        Hunter, Milton R.. Gospel Through the Ages (Kindle Locations 9-33). Deseret Book Company. Kindle Edition.

        Are you saying you know better that these men?


        Where do you see that I suggested that I know better than them? But you don't believe they have the truth.. so what's your point?
        “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

        We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Magdalena View Post

          No, my church doesnt exclude anyone. All are welcome to participate in any activity or ordinance. Our job is to love people. Forgiveness is between them and God.
          Really, do you have people like Hitler attending services with you? How about Harvey Wienstien? How about child molesters, rapists, drug dealers, pedophiles, murders? Are they participating in your services? Does your minister bless your Eucharist before or after he engages in physical intimacy with his homesexual partner?
          “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

          We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

          Comment


          • Originally posted by oceancoast View Post
            Yes, there is no other way except by obedience to the Gospel and its principals..Do you think there is another way?.. even a way to be saved? If you didn't get that message from the paragraph.. I would run, not walk to the nearest English language and comprehension class.



            Where do you see that I suggested that I know better than them? But you don't believe they have the truth.. so what's your point?
            Focus, it reads that all men, who want to become a God have to do so the same way HF did. There is no other way. Every potential God has to be perfect and know and learn everything by there own efforts.

            If you read more in the manual you would know that these laws are eternal truths and must be mastered, and only become Gods laws after they become a God...and, when and if you become a God, and if you do everything you are supposed to do, these eternal laws will also be your laws to administrate to your children.

            LDS theology again teaches these laws are eternal while you and God are only eternal in the since of you were once some sort of intelligent matter. A God only becomes the everlasting eternal God after they are exalted. Elohim was exactly like you and not the eternal God, just a man, until he did everything as explained in the teaching manual.

            MEANS OF OBTAINING DIVINE VERITIES The plan proposed by God for the government of men and women in their earthly career was "based upon eternal laws that always have been and always will be operative." Since all forms of matter and energy are controlled by laws, logic tells us that a plan formulated by an eternal and intelligent being must be composed of laws. 2 Many of these laws were the same as those obeyed in the spirit world, and they are basically the same as the ones we shall have opportunity to obey throughout eternity. Thus the Gospel plan was laid upon a foundation of eternal truth. Among the laws to which all who come to earth were to be subject are faith, repentance, baptism, confirmation, love, charity, purity, industry, honesty, and many other Gospel principles, ordinances and eternal realities.

            Hunter, Milton R.. Gospel Through the Ages (Kindle Locations 301-307). Deseret Book Company. Kindle Edition.

            We are informed in the two scriptures quoted that God's glory lies to a large degree in His ability to work, to create, to organize worlds. He has learned the eternal laws of truth (natural laws), and through controlling, regulating, and applying them as He sees fit, He has organized worlds as homes for His children. Through the power of the Priesthood—which was named after the Son of God—the Eternal Father creates worlds and accomplishes His divine designs.

            Hunter, Milton R.. Gospel Through the Ages (Kindle Locations 215-218). Deseret Book Company. Kindle Edition.

            The law of growth or progression is one of the eternal laws of life. All other laws contribute to it. Our Eternal Father has attained His position of exaltation and Godhood by obedience to the great law of progression. We have risen to our present intelligent state by adherence to this law and by further compliance we will advance to a state of perfection.

            Hunter, Milton R.. Gospel Through the Ages (Kindle Locations 293-295). Deseret Book Company. Kindle Edition.


            ETERNAL NATURE OF THE GOSPEL "Truth abideth and hath no end." 11 This was the pronouncement of Jesus Christ to the Prophet Joseph Smith. Anything which has an end must of necessity have a beginning; therefore, truth had no beginning. It has always existed and it shall continue to exist eternally. Wherever there have been intelligences (i.e., the ego or life of men) in any world and at any stage of progression, such fundamental principles as good, evil, love, hate, choice (agency), will, faith, repentance, progression, and hundreds of similar verities have existed. They constitute the laws of God—the laws of eternal truth. Our Heavenly Parents have through aeons of time and a multitude of experiences gradually become acquainted with and applied in Their lives an untold number of these everlasting laws. As They learned these verities and how to operate them, these laws thereby became subject unto Elohim and henceforth were His laws—or, in other words, the Gospel of Jesus Christ. President John Taylor sustains and amplifies the foregoing doctrine in the following words: The Gospel is a living, abiding, eternal and unchangeable principle that has existed co-equal with God, and always will exist, while time and eternity endure, wherever it is developed and made manifest. . . .

            Hunter, Milton R.. Gospel Through the Ages (Kindle Locations 159-168). Deseret Book Company. Kindle Edition.

            My point is, you do not understand core LDS thought...you being a convert were never exposed to it, or just did not pay attention.

            You said what hunter wrote was not scripture as if it was not a teaching that is a truth.
            But there has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation. It has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn-dodger for a wedge, and a pumpkin for a beetle. Even the Saints are slow to understand. Joseph Smith...

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Markk View Post

              Focus, it reads that all men, who want to become a God have to do so the same way HF did. There is no other way. Every potential God has to be perfect and know and learn everything by there own efforts.

              If you read more in the manual you would know that these laws are eternal truths and must be mastered, and only become Gods laws after they become a God...and, when and if you become a God, and if you do everything you are supposed to do, these eternal laws will also be your laws to administrate to your children.

              LDS theology again teaches these laws are eternal while you and God are only eternal in the since of you were once some sort of intelligent matter. A God only becomes the everlasting eternal God after they are exalted. Elohim was exactly like you and not the eternal God, just a man, until he did everything as explained in the teaching manual.
              You shifting goal posts here again. I never said there was any other way.. Do you have another way? Let me guess, worship the God of Markkism?

              And No it's NOT solely by ones own efforts.. you clearly are misunderstanding the CONTEXT. Own efforts includes "Faith in Christ".. that is an effort.. But we know , you have a different and unique dictionary that redifines words to suit your own apostate beliefs.


              My point is, you do not understand core LDS thought...you being a convert were never exposed to it, or just did not pay attention.
              No sir, I understand the core thought very well. Far better it appears than you.. It's you who demonstrate over and over YOU don't understand or must have been asleep during priesthood, Sunday school and primary.. That's why you are so off base on so much of what LDS believe.. You repeatedly chose to conflate to Confuse issues to support your own misguided apostate beliefs.

              In fact I bet you I'm more genetically Mormon (If there is such a thing) than you are.. You see haven't been able to list one single thing that is uniquely Mormon that you do or believe. And yet for some reason you want to deem yourself Mormon by heritage.. Which is bunk.. but let me say, I was introduced to the church when I was 10 years old. Only a few years older than my earliest memories.. I went to primary, I learned about the gospel.. I was baptized when I was 11, I became a deacon at 12.. I got my endowments when I was 19, in the SL Temple.. served a mission, taught Sunday school, priesthood etc. So the only part of my story that you can try to say is that in those first 10 years, from when you were a baby, half of which you not likely to have any conscious memory of.. you had LDS family around you.. I didn't.. but here's where I may be genetically more Mormon than you.. I, in my early years was in a family that was Catholic.. I attended Catholic services. That's what Italian families do... So I have 50 Generation of Catholic genes.

              BUT, as a child, I believed in God. I had prayer books given to me by the Catholic church.. but none of those made sense to me.. I believe in God and would say my silent prayers to God at night .. Here's the thing.. My personal beliefs about God were uniquely Mormon... even though I had never been to a Mormon service or even knew what a Mormon was. And when I was introduced to the Mormon faith at 10, the teachings they taught felt completely natural.. like I had know these things all my life. Yet, I know the Catholic church and my parents didn't teach me those things Mark. It was something from within.. my genetics? Or maybe I brought something with me from the pre-existance.. What's clear is that it didn't come from my parents or the Catholic church.

              You said what hunter wrote was not scripture as if it was not a teaching that is a truth.
              No, I did not.. once again YOU are misrepresenting what I said.
              Last edited by oceancoast; 07-13-18, 05:18 PM.
              “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

              We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

              Comment


              • Originally posted by oceancoast View Post
                You shifting goal posts here again. I never said there was any other way.. Do you have another way? Let me guess, worship the God of Markkism?

                And No it's NOT solely by ones own efforts.. you clearly are misunderstanding the CONTEXT. Own efforts includes "Faith in Christ".. that is an effort.. But we know , you have a different and unique dictionary that redifines words to suit your own apostate beliefs.


                No sir, I understand the core thought very well. Far better it appears that you.. It's you who demonstrate over and over YOU don't understand or must have been asleep during preisthood, sunday school and primary.. That's why you are so off base on so much of what LDS believe.. You repeatedly chose to conflate to Confuse issues to support your own misguided apostate beliefs.


                No, I did not.. once again YOU are misrepresenting what I said.
                Okay, I stand corrected... then you believe this...

                “Very gladly would the Lord give to everyone eternal life, but since that blessing can come only on merit-through the faithful performance of duty-only those who are worthy shall receive it.” – Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., edited by Bruce R. McConkie, 2:, p.5

                “This mortal life is granted us that we may be schooled properly and trained through the plan of salvation to be worthy to become in very deed sons and daughters of God. Our Eternal Father would have every soul saved if that were feasible. Salvation, however, is based on merit and obedience to divine law and therefore is only obtained through compliance with divine commandments.” – JosephFielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols., 5:, p.82
                But there has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation. It has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn-dodger for a wedge, and a pumpkin for a beetle. Even the Saints are slow to understand. Joseph Smith...

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Markk View Post

                  Okay, I stand corrected... then you believe this...

                  “Very gladly would the Lord give to everyone eternal life, but since that blessing can come only on merit-through the faithful performance of duty-only those who are worthy shall receive it.” – Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., edited by Bruce R. McConkie, 2:, p.5

                  “This mortal life is granted us that we may be schooled properly and trained through the plan of salvation to be worthy to become in very deed sons and daughters of God. Our Eternal Father would have every soul saved if that were feasible. Salvation, however, is based on merit and obedience to divine law and therefore is only obtained through compliance with divine commandments.” – JosephFielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols., 5:, p.82
                  NOTHING I have said has disagree with that Mark.. You have distorted what they are trying to say.. we have been down this road before. You have an unique defintion on what the word "Earn" means.. or what JFS is saying regarding FAITHFUL performance.. Faithful performance BEGINS with Faith in Christ.
                  “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

                  We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by oceancoast View Post

                    NOTHING I have said has disagree with that Mark.. You have distorted what they are trying to say.. we have been down this road before. You have an unique defintion on what the word "Earn" means.. or what JFS is saying regarding FAITHFUL performance.. Faithful performance BEGINS with Faith in Christ.
                    We have been down this road...and I still have no idea what you really believe..

                    But you agree now that "Salvation, however, is based on merit and obedience to divine law and therefore is only obtained through compliance with divine commandments.” And that God can't save a person, they must merit that salvation.




                    But there has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation. It has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn-dodger for a wedge, and a pumpkin for a beetle. Even the Saints are slow to understand. Joseph Smith...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Markk View Post

                      We have been down this road...and I still have no idea what you really believe..
                      Because you don't listen.

                      But you agree now that "Salvation, however, is based on merit and obedience to divine law and therefore is only obtained through compliance with divine commandments.” And that God can't save a person, they must merit that salvation.
                      That is NOT what I said, and it's NOT what our leaders have said.. You conflate Salvation from Sins with Exaltation , they are NOT the same. Why do you persist in that disingenuous behavior?? a behavior that is fundamentally dishonest.


                      “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

                      We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by oceancoast View Post
                        Because you don't listen.


                        That is NOT what I said, and it's NOT what our leaders have said.. You conflate Salvation from Sins with Exaltation , they are NOT the same. Why do you persist in that disingenuous behavior?? a behavior that is fundamentally dishonest.

                        Then what do those quotes mean...I am trying to get you to actually state a position, your theology is Jello, it can not be nailed down. .

                        “Very gladly would the Lord give to everyone eternal life, but since that blessing can come only on merit-through the faithful performance of duty-only those who are worthy shall receive it.” – Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., edited by Bruce R. McConkie, 2:, p.5

                        “This mortal life is granted us that we may be schooled properly and trained through the plan of salvation to be worthy to become in very deed sons and daughters of God. Our Eternal Father would have every soul saved if that were feasible. Salvation, however, is based on merit and obedience to divine law and therefore is only obtained through compliance with divine commandments.” – JosephFielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols., 5:, p.82

                        You say you agree with these quotes, and then I break them down and you run...I am trying to get you to actually articulate what you believe OC, but you never have and I doubt you ever will.

                        The quotes say eternal life is salvation and is based on merit...correct?




                        But there has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation. It has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn-dodger for a wedge, and a pumpkin for a beetle. Even the Saints are slow to understand. Joseph Smith...

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Markk View Post

                          Then what do those quotes mean...I am trying to get you to actually state a position, your theology is Jello, it can not be nailed down.
                          I have stated my position hundreds of times here Mark.. You don't like my position because it doesn't fit your distorted narrative of LDS beliefs.. so you call it Jello.. It doesn't help that you don't appear to have a grasp on the meaning of certain English words like Earn, Work, Salvation etc... not sure why, but if you don't understand the Language, it will be impossible to communicate.

                          So if there is anyone here whose theology is "Jello" that would be you.. You say you don't DO anything for your 'Salvation' except the things you do DO.. You are note even consistent on what a "Mormon" is. As it's say's the "Double Minded man is unstable in all his ways"

                          “Very gladly would the Lord give to everyone eternal life, but since that blessing can come only on merit-through the faithful performance of duty-only those who are worthy shall receive it.” – Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., edited by Bruce R. McConkie, 2:, p.5

                          “This mortal life is granted us that we may be schooled properly and trained through the plan of salvation to be worthy to become in very deed sons and daughters of God. Our Eternal Father would have every soul saved if that were feasible. Salvation, however, is based on merit and obedience to divine law and therefore is only obtained through compliance with divine commandments.” – JosephFielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols., 5:, p.82

                          You say you agree with these quotes, and then I break them down and you run...I am trying to get you to actually articulate what you believe OC, but you never have and I doubt you ever will.

                          The quotes say eternal life is salvation and is based on merit...correct?



                          Mark, Exaltation and "salvation from sin" are NOT the something.. LDS do call Exaltation a form of Salvation.. salvation comes in many forms.. even Biblically. So unless you stop conflating the two concept it's impossible to discuss, and it just tells me you DON'T want to have a discussion, you only want to disingenuously distort LDS beliefs to serve your own unholy anti-Mormon agenda.. For that reason I find your claims at being "Christian" rather dubious.
                          Last edited by oceancoast; 07-13-18, 07:23 PM.
                          “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

                          We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by oceancoast View Post

                            Mark, Exaltation and "salvation from sin" are NOT the something.. LDS do call Exaltation a form of Salvation.. salvation comes in many forms.. even Biblically. So unless you stop conflating the two concept it's impossible to discuss, and it just tells me you DON'T want to have a discussion, you only want to disingenuously distort LDS beliefs to serve your own unholy anti-Mormon agenda.. For that reason I find your claims at being "Christian" rather dubious.
                            Just answer my question and tell me what the quotes read? I am asking you to tell me what those quotes mean? For arguments sake...okay I am everything you say I am...now answer my questions and break down the quotes you said you agreed with. her eis my last post again.

                            Then what do those quotes mean...I am trying to get you to actually state a position, your theology is Jello, it can not be nailed down. .

                            “Very gladly would the Lord give to everyone eternal life, but since that blessing can come only on merit-through the faithful performance of duty-only those who are worthy shall receive it.” – Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., edited by Bruce R. McConkie, 2:, p.5

                            “This mortal life is granted us that we may be schooled properly and trained through the plan of salvation to be worthy to become in very deed sons and daughters of God. Our Eternal Father would have every soul saved if that were feasible. Salvation, however, is based on merit and obedience to divine law and therefore is only obtained through compliance with divine commandments.” – JosephFielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols., 5:, p.82

                            You say you agree with these quotes, and then I break them down and you run...I am trying to get you to actually articulate what you believe OC, but you never have and I doubt you ever will.

                            The quotes say eternal life is salvation and is based on merit...correct?


                            But there has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation. It has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn-dodger for a wedge, and a pumpkin for a beetle. Even the Saints are slow to understand. Joseph Smith...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Markk View Post

                              Just answer my question and tell me what the quotes read? I am asking you to tell me what those quotes mean? For arguments sake...okay I am everything you say I am...now answer my questions and break down the quotes you said you agreed with. her eis my last post again.




                              First can you understand what the difference between what 'Salvation from your sins' is and what "Exaltation" is? Until you can recognize the difference, my break down will just be MORE of the SAME.. that being your failure in understanding and then proceeding to misrepresent me and LDS beliefs.


                              Also, a question I have asked you many times now that you have refused to answer.. What belief or behavior do you still do that is uniquely Mormon, that make you believe you're more Mormon than I am?
                              “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” -- George Carlin

                              We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideals of Christianity, our movement is Christian. - Adolf Hitler

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                              • Originally posted by oceancoast View Post

                                First can you understand what the difference between what 'Salvation from your sins' is and what "Exaltation" is? Until you can recognize the difference, my break down will just be MORE of the SAME.. that being your failure in understanding and then proceeding to misrepresent me and LDS beliefs.


                                Also, a question I have asked you many times now that you have refused to answer.. What belief or behavior do you still do that is uniquely Mormon, that make you believe you're more Mormon than I am?
                                Salvation from sins is just another way of saying individual salvation, not to be confused with general salvation. There are two types of salvation the first is general, the second personal or individual. The former is a salvation from Adams transgression, the latter from personal sins.

                                "Salvation from sins" is a conditional path that one must do...basically lumped into, after basic ordinances, as "enduring to the end." And as you pointed out and I showed you, anything less that enduring to the end for the saint, is damnation. Even the lower Celestial kingdoms are damnation. This is why I state that true salvation for the saint is eternal life...period.

                                1. Eternal damnation is the opposite of eternal life, and all those who do not gain eternal life, or exaltation in the highest heaven within the celestial kingdom, are partakers of eternal damnation. Their eternal condemnation is to have limitations imposed upon them so that they cannot progress to the state of godhood and gain a fullness of all things.

                                Bruce R. McConkie. Mormon Doctrine (Kindle Locations 5950-5952).



                                In review...there are two types of salvation...

                                KINDS OF SALVATION SALVATION: CONDITIONAL AND UNCONDITIONAL. Christ's sacrifice and death did two things for us: it brought unto us unconditional salvation and conditional salvation. Sometimes we refer to these as general salvation and individual salvation.

                                Joseph Fielding Smith. Doctrines of Salvation: Sermons and Writings of Joseph Fielding Smith: Volumes 1-3 (Kindle Locations 6251-6253). Deseret Book Company. Kindle Edition.


                                General Salvation is free to all...

                                "Unconditional redemption is a gift forced upon mankind which they cannot reject, though they were disposed...

                                Joseph Fielding Smith. Doctrines of Salvation: Sermons and Writings of Joseph Fielding Smith: Volumes 1-3 (Kindle Locations 6266-6267). Deseret Book Company. Kindle Edition.


                                Conditional Salvation can be rejected.

                                Not so with conditional redemption; it can be received or rejected according to the will of the creature.

                                Joseph Fielding Smith. Doctrines of Salvation: Sermons and Writings of Joseph Fielding Smith: Volumes 1-3 (Kindle Locations 6267-6268). Deseret Book Company. Kindle Edition.


                                This is what Oaks teaches on "salvation from sin" (your question)

                                "As to salvation from sin and the consequences of sin, our answer to the question of whether or not we have been saved is “yes, but with conditions.” (Have you been saved)


                                Those conditions as I explained are many, starting with faith and ending with enduring to the end.


                                Now please answer my questions.
                                Then what do those quotes mean...I am trying to get you to actually state a position, your theology is Jello, it can not be nailed down. .

                                “Very gladly would the Lord give to everyone eternal life, but since that blessing can come only on merit-through the faithful performance of duty-only those who are worthy shall receive it.” – Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., edited by Bruce R. McConkie, 2:, p.5

                                “This mortal life is granted us that we may be schooled properly and trained through the plan of salvation to be worthy to become in very deed sons and daughters of God. Our Eternal Father would have every soul saved if that were feasible. Salvation, however, is based on merit and obedience to divine law and therefore is only obtained through compliance with divine commandments.” – JosephFielding Smith, Answers to Gospel Questions, 5 vols., 5:, p.82

                                You say you agree with these quotes, and then I break them down and you run...I am trying to get you to actually articulate what you believe OC, but you never have and I doubt you ever will.

                                The quotes say eternal life is salvation and is based on merit...correct?
                                But there has been a great difficulty in getting anything into the heads of this generation. It has been like splitting hemlock knots with a corn-dodger for a wedge, and a pumpkin for a beetle. Even the Saints are slow to understand. Joseph Smith...

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