Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

Plagiarism of the Bible - stealing idioms

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • CTR-Lloyd
    started a topic Plagiarism of the Bible - stealing idioms

    Plagiarism of the Bible - stealing idioms

    Many kilobytes have been spilled trying to show where Joseph Smith Copied the Bible.

    In another thread read we discussed white and black metaphors in the Bible, we showed how David in psalms 51 wanted God to wash his already white skin so that it could be as white as snow —-dare we say exceedingly white.

    We we also discussed lamentations 4: wherein we found a comparison of white and black visages that were metaphors of purity and sinfulness.

    Now, Joseph if he is a master con artist and copier of biblical themes, did he just copy these ideas? Or did he make up whiter than white skin and dark skin.

    Or did parley or Sidney tell him to copy that part.

    If they copied this obvious biblical idiom then it would mean the Book of Mormon is teaching a skin of blackness is just pale gloomy looking people ...nothing to do with literal skin color.

    If you don’t think he copied this idea of super white skin and black as coal skin, then you can’t say what else he did or didn’t copy with any assurety.

    Your plagiarism arguments....already super week are crumbling all around you.
    Last edited by Mod10; 07-10-18, 03:01 PM. Reason: Alert, no violation. But if thread becomes more about the Bibke, then it will be moved.

  • Markk
    replied
    [QUOTE=Ralf;n5394713]
    Originally posted by Markk View Post

    No Ralf...you will have everything God has all power, glory, dominion and knowledge...all God before your God and all Gods after will have the same. That is LDS theology.

    Yes we have gone over this time and again... lets just say I disagree and you are completely wrong as usual...


    Everything and all, in regards to power and knowledge mean just that.

    And also being glorified (exalted) with Christ means exactly that...

    This is just another mess you need to sort out. If you believe like BY, then you can say HF is always learning faster, but if you hold to current LDS thought, God is all knowing, and all Gods become all knowing when they become a God.

    God is also progressing... adding unto Himself even more Glory, worlds without end Markk... I donít think I will ever catch up...

    So do you believe like BY, or like the GA after him?

    I believe that I can be exalted and glorified... how, doníít completely know yet... why? because its in the scriptures (Bible) ...when... after I endure to the end... thatís about all I understand about becoming Kings and Queens... unless you were taught a heck of a lot more then I... hmmm

    "God is also progressing... adding unto Himself even more Glory, worlds without end Markk... I donít think I will ever catch up...

    This is why I am here Ralf, to try to help you folks see the delusional doctrines that "the church pumps" into those that are deceived into believing they can actually be a God. Say what you want about Decker and Hunt, they hit the nail on the head when they came up with the title " The God Makers." The LDS church through the temple make Gods. I only hope you tell investigators this ralf.

    You then are in the Brigham Young camp, that God is not all knowing, and is still learning this is what the other camp believes...do you believe HF is still learning?


    And also being glorified (exalted) with Christ means exactly that...

    What? In one breath you imply God is still learning, and in another he is all knowing....If glorified (exalted) mean you will be all knowing as you just alluded to, how can HF still be learning?

    I believe that I can be exalted and glorified... how, doníít completely know yet... why? because its in the scriptures (Bible) ...when... after I endure to the end... thatís about all I understand about becoming Kings and Queens... unless you were taught a heck of a lot more then I... hmmm

    Start with this, and BTW how did you do in school, how is you math these days.(no calculator though)...

    I realize that it must eventually come to pass in the case of those who gain the exaltation and become sons of God, that they must, in the eternities, reach the time when they will know all things. They must know mathematics; they must know all the principles of science; they must be prepared in all things-by learning, by study, by faith-to comprehend these principles of eternal truth, even as our Father in heaven comprehends them; and unless men will put themselves in harmony with him and his Spirit and seek the light which comes through that Spirit, they never will reach the goal of perfection in these things. It is, however, knowledge of the principles, of the gospel

    Joseph Fielding Smith. Doctrines of Salvation: Sermons and Writings of Joseph Fielding Smith: Volumes 1-3 (Kindle Locations 5472-5477). Deseret Book Company. Kindle Edition.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ralf
    replied
    [QUOTE=Markk;n5394477]

    No Ralf...you will have everything God has all power, glory, dominion and knowledge...all God before your God and all Gods after will have the same. That is LDS theology.

    Yes we have gone over this time and again... lets just say I disagree and you are completely wrong as usual...


    Everything and all, in regards to power and knowledge mean just that.

    And also being glorified (exalted) with Christ means exactly that...

    This is just another mess you need to sort out. If you believe like BY, then you can say HF is always learning faster, but if you hold to current LDS thought, God is all knowing, and all Gods become all knowing when they become a God.

    God is also progressing... adding unto Himself even more Glory, worlds without end Markk... I don’t think I will ever catch up...

    So do you believe like BY, or like the GA after him?

    I believe that I can be exalted and glorified... how, don’ít completely know yet... why? because its in the scriptures (Bible) ...when... after I endure to the end... that’s about all I understand about becoming Kings and Queens... unless you were taught a heck of a lot more then I... hmmm

    Leave a comment:


  • Markk
    replied
    Originally posted by Ralf View Post

    I would recommend teaching the Core Doctrine Markk... its called the Plan of Salvation and our some 70 thousand are doing just that... they don’t get sidetracked by peripheral or unauthorized doctrine... Like I said ... we will never have the same power and knowledge of God ... for God is our Father and as such; God will always be more intelligent than we....

    Abraham 3

    21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the workswhich my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.
    No Ralf...you will have everything God has all power, glory, dominion and knowledge...all God before your God and all Gods after will have the same. That is LDS theology.

    They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ haveóall power, glory, dominion, and knowledge Gospel Principles 47.
    Everything and all, in regards to power and knowledge mean just that.

    This is just another mess you need to sort out. If you believe like BY, then you can say HF is always learning faster, but if you hold to current LDS thought, God is all knowing, and all Gods become all knowing when they become a God.

    So do you believe like BY, or like the GA after him?

    Leave a comment:


  • Ralf
    replied
    Originally posted by Markk View Post

    It certainly is a choice ralf...just make sure that when you teach investigators you teach them right away that the LDS church teaches that if they join and are faithful they can have the same power and knowledge of God, and that they can create worlds for their spirit children to live on and that in heaven once a God they can have virgins as wives, and that like God, your children will worship you.
    I would recommend teaching the Core Doctrine Markk... its called the Plan of Salvation and our some 70 thousand are doing just that... they don’ít get sidetracked by peripheral or unauthorized doctrine... Like I said ... we will never have the same power and knowledge of God ... for God is our Father and as such; God will always be more intelligent than we....

    Abraham 3

    21 I dwell in the midst of them all; I now, therefore, have come down unto thee to declare unto thee the workswhich my hands have made, wherein my wisdom excelleth them all, for I rule in the heavens above, and in the earth beneath, in all wisdom and prudence, over all the intelligences thine eyes have seen from the beginning; I came down in the beginning in the midst of all the intelligences thou hast seen.

    Leave a comment:


  • Markk
    replied
    Originally posted by CTR-Lloyd View Post
    Blood atonement was disavowed by Wilford Woodruff. It was a doctrine/practice for a pure theocracy. It was not for a democratic society.

    In democracy we can have capital punishment. It’s not blood atonement, but it is the same result. Perpetrator is dead.

    We do not believe or follow Blood atonement.

    Adam god is a theory - multiple disavowals.

    Priesthood ban. This was racism. We have all moved past this.
    Blood atonement was a doctrine taught by BY, and then deemed a false doctrine.


    In democracy we can have capital punishment. It’s not blood atonement, but it is the same result. Perpetrator is dead.
    True...it is not the same as the false teaching by Young's Blood Atonment Doctrine.

    Adam god is a theory - multiple disavowals.
    True so much so it left the saint in limbo as to the nature of God until around 1912 when Talmage and Roberts gave the current understanding. Point being it was a false doctrine taught through out BY's presidency. They even sany worship to father Adam. It was a false doctrine and in some views wacky.


    Priesthood ban. This was racism. We have all moved past this.
    Not really, they disavowed the reasons for the ban, but still teach the Ban was from God. Oak's still teaches Black is skin color.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTR-Lloyd
    replied
    Originally posted by Markk View Post

    Then what do the doctrines like Adam God, Blood atonement, Blacks and the priesthood...if not wacky are they just false doctrine taught by the church? What is the difference between a wacky teaching and a false teaching by a GA.

    I am glade you are okay with what some people believe, although it has nothing to do with the thing you said about LDS leaders and their teachings.
    Blood atonement was disavowed by Wilford Woodruff. It was a doctrine/practice for a pure theocracy. It was not for a democratic society.

    In democracy we can have capital punishment. Itís not blood atonement, but it is the same result. Perpetrator is dead.

    We do not believe or follow Blood atonement.

    Adam god is a theory - multiple disavowals.

    Priesthood ban. This was racism. We have all moved past this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Markk
    replied
    Originally posted by Ralf View Post

    I do... makes perfect sense to many of us... progression at the highest level... or regression at a earthly level when in total denial... hmmm ... choice! Live Gods Law or live mans theories and concepts (Christian Creeds)... so again its a choice.
    It certainly is a choice ralf...just make sure that when you teach investigators you teach them right away that the LDS church teaches that if they join and are faithful they can have the same power and knowledge of God, and that they can create worlds for their spirit children to live on and that in heaven once a God they can have virgins as wives, and that like God, your children will worship you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Markk
    replied
    Originally posted by CTR-Lloyd View Post

    And you misquote me again, I have never said any of our doctrines are wacky. None of our doctrines are wacky.

    You aren’t acting like a saved person. Are you truly saved, or just backsliding?

    To help your credibility you should use proper quoting.

    I’m fine if people can’t comprehend all that God wants for his Children.

    If fine if they cant understand what it would mean to be a child of God.

    Im ok if people like that their marriages and family relationships end at death, that they just kinda see each other in heaven as peers.

    Im fine if people don’t want eternal marriage, and don’t want to have continued joy in their posterity.

    However if someone does want their family to remain intact and wants to have all the inheritance of the Father then, golly I can help by having them search ponder and pray regardingbthe Book of Mormon.


    Then what do the doctrines like Adam God, Blood atonement, Blacks and the priesthood...if not wacky are they just false doctrine taught by the church? What is the difference between a wacky teaching and a false teaching by a GA.

    I am glade you are okay with what some people believe, although it has nothing to do with the thing you said about LDS leaders and their teachings.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTR-Lloyd
    replied
    Originally posted by Markk View Post

    LDS doctrine is blasphemous...do you really believe God was once like you, and you can be like Him? Just about every doctrine exclusive to Mormonism is a complicated mess and many others... like you say are wacky.
    And you misquote me again, I have never said any of our doctrines are wacky. None of our doctrines are wacky.

    You arenít acting like a saved person. Are you truly saved, or just backsliding?

    To help your credibility you should use proper quoting.

    Iím fine if people canít comprehend all that God wants for his Children.

    If fine if they cant understand what it would mean to be a child of God.

    Im ok if people like that their marriages and family relationships end at death, that they just kinda see each other in heaven as peers.

    Im fine if people donít want eternal marriage, and donít want to have continued joy in their posterity.

    However if someone does want their family to remain intact and wants to have all the inheritance of the Father then, golly I can help by having them search ponder and pray regardingbthe Book of Mormon.



    Leave a comment:


  • Ralf
    replied
    Originally posted by Markk View Post

    LDS doctrine is blasphemous...do you really believe God was once like you, and you can be like Him? Just about every doctrine exclusive to Mormonism is a complicated mess and many others... like you say are wacky.
    I do... makes perfect sense to many of us... progression at the highest level... or regression at a earthly level when in total denial... hmmm ... choice! Live Gods Law or live mans theories and concepts (Christian Creeds)... so again its a choice.

    Leave a comment:


  • Markk
    replied
    Originally posted by CTR-Lloyd View Post
    LDS Doctrine is pure and simple.

    Christian Doctrine is simple at its core.

    We all all complicate things with unnecessay for salvation type disagreements.

    LDS doctrine is blasphemous...do you really believe God was once like you, and you can be like Him? Just about every doctrine exclusive to Mormonism is a complicated mess and many others... like you say are wacky.

    Leave a comment:


  • CTR-Lloyd
    replied
    Originally posted by Markk View Post
    You also realize that LDS doctrine is wacky. The church has and will continue to change as more for you speak out against these men that did not have a clue.
    LDS Doctrine is pure and simple.

    Christian Doctrine is simple at its core.

    We all all complicate things with unnecessay for salvation type disagreements.


    Leave a comment:


  • The Barrd
    replied
    Originally posted by JustaLurker View Post

    She pretended to be a black woman and asked if she would be allowed to enter the Temple. She neglected to pretend to be Mormon and have a Temple recommend. She was told that she would not be allowed to enter. She then reported that to us as though it were about her pretend black race rather than about her lack of Temple recommend.

    When dealing with antl Mormons I find it saves a great deal of time if you just identify the dishonesty right off the bat. Then you can dispense with the rest.
    Obviously, I pretended to be Mormon. They weren't questioning that part. There are very few black members of that particular church, basically because they are not made to feel welcome.
    I couldn't even get an interview. Nobody offered me any literature.
    Hmmmm....perhaps I wasn't convincing??

    Oh, well. I'm guessing you do not live in the south??

    To be fair, I don't think it is a Mormon thing so much as it is an Alabama thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by JustaLurker View Post

    She pretended to be a black woman and asked if she would be allowed to enter the Temple. She neglected to pretend to be Mormon and have a Temple recommend. She was told that she would not be allowed to enter. She then reported that to us as though it were about her pretend black race rather than about her lack of Temple recommend.

    When dealing with antl Mormons I find it saves a great deal of time if you just identify the dishonesty right off the bat. Then you can dispense with the rest.
    Gee, can we point out all the outrageous lies Joey told too, and you'll learn to know how dishonest he was?

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X