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Hill Cumorah Pageant

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  • #16
    Originally posted by urloony View Post
    I'm headed to Palmyra for pageant this weekend and plan to engage the anti's per usual (the nice ones under the tents, not the maniacs with the megaphones). However, we haven't been up in about five years now (we used to go every year). Each year there have been different trends in antimormon propaganda. In previous years it was Joseph Smith's wives, first vision accounts, etc. I'm curious as to what the recent popular topics are for anti's now so that I can know what to expect.
    Oh, going to see the Gospel of Christ and His Body attacked? What fun for a Mormon, and those who deny the Lord Jesus.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Bonnie View Post

      Ah yes, more of this:

      You know it takes people with backbone to actually answer questions.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

        Oh, going to see the Gospel of Christ and His Body attacked? What fun for a Mormon, and those who deny the Lord Jesus.
        It's a pageant celebrating our beliefs, for the education, entertainment and enlightenment of OUR believers. YOU guys are the ones attacking OUR beliefs when you set up those 'nice guys in the tents' and the shouters and the sign carriers.

        We don't go to your events and set up tents, attempt to out shout your speakers, block entrances and otherwise attempt to ruin them.

        It doesn't surprise me any, though, that you would display your intolerance by claiming that any discussion/resentment Mormons have regarding such...stuff...at their events as an attack on YOU.

        Comment


        • #19
          And what of Mormon archaeology? Will they be celebrating that at Hill Cumorah?

          http://www.mormonthink.com/syracuse.htm

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by dianaiad View Post

            It's a pageant celebrating our beliefs, for the education, entertainment and enlightenment of OUR believers. YOU guys are the ones attacking OUR beliefs when you set up those 'nice guys in the tents' and the shouters and the sign carriers.

            We don't go to your events and set up tents, attempt to out shout your speakers, block entrances and otherwise attempt to ruin them.

            It doesn't surprise me any, though, that you would display your intolerance by claiming that any discussion/resentment Mormons have regarding such...stuff...at their events as an attack on YOU.
            Do they celebrate Joseph Smith's serial adultery? Do they ever tell the truth about Smith? Do they expound on all the teenage girls he married? How about all the women who were already married? Who plays their parts?

            It is a celebration of LIES!

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by dianaiad

              No. YOU all were claiming that it was against the rules to make personal comments about anyone here.......

              And it quite obviously is not, since the critics are quite free to make personal comments about anybody who does not have an account on CARM, which means that the critics and antis are quite free to....and do....make some VERY insulting and personal comments about Mormon leaders, past AND PRESENT.
              Youre looking for gnats that you can strain at.
              ~ There is life after mormonism, and it's good! Just stay close to Christ.
              ~ You can't follow Christ and false prophets at the same time.
              ~ "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Magdalena View Post

                Youre looking for gnats that you can strain at.
                Uh huh. When one of you says something like that, I know that I have struck a nerve; y'all know I'm right and you guys don't want to acknowledge it, so you will pooh-pooh the argument and try to make it seem like an unimportant, trivial point.

                Well, this wasn't a gnat. It's a very big part of the way this forum works. It is what it is; it's a privately owned site and the owners may make what rules they wish. All who post here know what the rules are.

                I'm not going to pretend that they are not what they are, though, and neither should you.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Magdalena View Post

                  It's against the rules to talk about anyones personal life here. You know that. And to make insulting comments to or about them. Thats why people were getting suspended.
                  Ed was being dishonest about the fact that adultery contributed to his excommunication. Pointing out that fact apparently is insulting.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    So we just came back from pageant. We have friends that are in the pageant one who is an electrical engineer that assists with the sound and lighting. It was a great experience and our kids really enjoyed it. There have been a few logistical changes that the church has made in order to limit the impact that the antiMormon crowd has on the attendees which I thought was clever and helpful. Noise ordinances prevent the anti's from being too loud, but they are now cordoned off in the far corner of the parking lot beyond a fence along the road side. A few years ago the church purchased the field next to Cumorah for parking. In the past, visitors would park across the street and be bombarded by antiMormon propaganda while making their way to the pageant. In the parking lot are now tall polls that have been installed that are numbered to mark off the various parking areas to make it easier to find your car. Speakers have been added to the poles that play LDS hymns and music. While you are walking to the pageant it's very difficult to understand any of the noise from the anti's, and significantly easier to ignore them as you make your way through the parking lot.

                    Of course my plan was to engage the so-called "friendly tent anti's," in discussion and surprisingly had to work a little harder to get to them as the entire field area is now fenced off. It actually took a little effort to navigate the fence labyrinth in order to reach them. It's been five years since our last visit, but it was the same "What Mormons Don't Tell" crowd as I've met before with the usual tactics and discussions. Anti's can have some good arguments and there were a few shared that perhaps I'll bring up in another post.

                    One of the serious recurring problems however is the need that Anti's have to overstate the facts. As we were finishing our discussion (about 2 hours) as pageant was about to start, their leader Brad, who was trying to drive home a point about Joseph Smith's arrogance misquoted D&C 135 in the usual way: "Joseph Smith, the Prophet and Seer of the Lord, has done more than even Jesus, for the salvation of men." I corrected him, he denied it and said "he'd have to check it himself."

                    My question to you anti's here is: Why the need to intentionally lie about easily verifiable facts? I gave Brad the benefit of the doubt, most of the discussion was straight forward. However, in my experience, D&C 135 is so often misquoted by anti's I've come to almost expect it.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post
                      And what of Mormon archaeology? Will they be celebrating that at Hill Cumorah?

                      http://www.mormonthink.com/syracuse.htm
                      A few facts that contradict your link (I know the claim is that it was written by an LDS church member, but that makes no difference).
                      • Joseph Smith, nor the Angel Moroni, nor The Book of Mormon ever call the hill in NY that is now called Cumorah, "The Hill Cumorah."
                      • The church has no position on the location of the actual Hill Cumorah discussed in the Book of Mormon where the final battle took place.
                      • The Nephites nor the Lamenites are believed to be the "ancestors of all indigenous peoples in the Americas."

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

                        Do they celebrate Joseph Smith's serial adultery? Do they ever tell the truth about Smith? Do they expound on all the teenage girls he married? How about all the women who were already married? Who plays their parts?

                        It is a celebration of LIES!
                        And you are in here saying such things to us in a forum dedicated to the service of those who say such things to us.

                        But we aren't talking about Chuck Smith and his personal history over in the Calvary Chapel forum, or setting up shop outside Calvary Chapel services.

                        We aren't camping on Lutheran church lawns talking about Luther's murderous and lying methods of getting his religion up to speed.

                        We aren't yelling at the Protestants for killing Catholics, massacring priests and nuns and confiscating convents and monasteries, or the way they gleefully hunted down so many women and burned them as witches, or how completely most of 'em supported slavery by using the Bible.

                        We aren't picketing Catholic cathedrals or churches because of the inquisition, or the way they battled the Protestants.

                        Now here's the thing, CA. Everything I mentioned, above, is historical fact. Not my opinion. Fact. Those things happened. But even though they are proven historical fact, and do not reflect well on the belief systems involved, you don't see Mormons setting up tents and carrying signs shouting about that at the events those belief systems have. We don't go shouting these things....these undeniable and proven facts...in your forums, at your events, at your church meetings.

                        But you are trying to excuse the behavior of the antis who do attack us at our events because of YOUR OPINION?

                        You have written, many times, that you think JS deserved his death because he was a traitor. That you think he was a traitor because he destroyed a printing press in Nauvoo.

                        But you have never, even once, talked about, much less condemned, the men who destroyed the printing press owned BY Mormons, a destruction that included the torture and injury of two (perhaps three) men, the burning down of the building, making the printer's family homeless...and all because that press published an article saying that the church would abide by Missouri law and NOT import free people of color to live there. I don't see you calling THEM 'traitors.'

                        You think that Mormonism is full of lies. Well, I think your belief system is full of lies.

                        but you are here, attacking us. We are not where you are attacking you.

                        You support the actions of antis who do their level best to violate our freedom of religion by attempting to block access, out shout or drown out events sponsored by our church...

                        but we don't do that to you. In fact, we'd be more likely to lend you sound systems for your own events.

                        Does an opinion justify anything? I mean, really, CA...if you believe that because you think Mormonism is wrong that it is perfectly acceptable to do that sort of thing...picket events, block access, burn presses, mob and kill people, then why aren't you more sympathetic to the Cedar City Mormons who killed the Fanchers because THEY believed that the Fanchers had people who had murdered JS, who had poisoned wells that killed children on the way down, and intended to join the army even then coming to kill them (the Mormons) and/or send another army up from California?

                        I mean, if we are going to use your standards here, it would make sense; what the Cedar City Mormons believed would have justified what they did, right? Isn't that what you are claiming here...that your beliefs about the CoJCoLDS makes it just fine and dandy to be as nasty an anti as one can be?

                        Or do you believe, as I do (especially since most of the things Lee & Co believed about the Fancher train was dead wrong anyway) that what one believes about something DOES NOT EXCUSE ATTACKS? There is no justification for the MMM.

                        And your opinion does not justify the actions of anti-Mormons. JS didn't deserve to be shot. He was not a traitor, in spite of your opinion. The Fanchers didn't deserve to be massacred, no matter what the Cedar City Mormons thought.

                        And for you to tell us that WE are attacking Christianity and you simply because we believe differently, have our own religious meetings and events, and generally mind our own business and CERTAINLY allow you to worship as you wish without interference from us.....and for you to tell us this in this forum especially....

                        That has got to be the epitome of hypocrisy.


                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by dianaiad View Post

                          Uh huh. When one of you says something like that, I know that I have struck a nerve; y'all know I'm right and you guys don't want to acknowledge it, so you will pooh-pooh the argument and try to make it seem like an unimportant, trivial point.

                          Well, this wasn't a gnat. It's a very big part of the way this forum works. It is what it is; it's a privately owned site and the owners may make what rules they wish. All who post here know what the rules are.

                          I'm not going to pretend that they are not what they are, though, and neither should you.
                          Would you like some cheese with that whine?
                          ~ There is life after mormonism, and it's good! Just stay close to Christ.
                          ~ You can't follow Christ and false prophets at the same time.
                          ~ "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by urloony View Post

                            A few facts that contradict your link (I know the claim is that it was written by an LDS church member, but that makes no difference).
                            • Joseph Smith, nor the Angel Moroni, nor The Book of Mormon ever call the hill in NY that is now called Cumorah, "The Hill Cumorah."
                            • The church has no position on the location of the actual Hill Cumorah discussed in the Book of Mormon where the final battle took place.
                            • The Nephites nor the Lamenites are believed to be the "ancestors of all indigenous peoples in the Americas."
                            I went to the pageant when I was a young girl. They took us on a tour of the "sacred grove." They told us the hill cumorah was the same hill as the one in the Book of Mormon. The fight was there. The plates were hidden there. It was quite a story.
                            ~ There is life after mormonism, and it's good! Just stay close to Christ.
                            ~ You can't follow Christ and false prophets at the same time.
                            ~ "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by dianaiad View Post

                              Neither does Ed Decker. He hasn't posted here for THREE YEARS.
                              So why do you keep bringing him up?
                              ~ There is life after mormonism, and it's good! Just stay close to Christ.
                              ~ You can't follow Christ and false prophets at the same time.
                              ~ "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Magdalena View Post

                                So why do you keep bringing him up?
                                Don't look now, Magdalena, but I'm not the one who brought him up.

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