Announcement

Collapse

Message to all users:

https://carm.org/forum-rules

Super Member Subscription
https://carm.org/carm-super-members-banner-ad-signup

As most of you are aware, we had a crash to forums and were down for over two days a while back. We did have to do an upgrade to the vbulletin software to fix the forums and that has created changes, VB no longer provide the hybrid or threaded forums. There are some issues/changes to the forums we are not able to fix or change. Also note the link address change, please let friends and posters know of the changed link to the forums. For now this is the only link available, https://forums.carm.org/vb5/ but if clicking on forum on carm.org homepage it will now send you to this link. (edited to add https: now working.

Again, we are working through some of the posting and viewing issues to learn how to post with the changes, you will have to check and test the different features, icons that have changed. You may also want to go to profile settings,since many of the notifications, information in profile, also to update/edit your avatar by clicking on avatar space, pull down arrow next to login for user settings.

Edit to add "How to read forums, to make it easier."
Pull down arrow next to login name upper right select profile, or user settings when page opens to profile,select link in tab that says Account. Then select/choose options, go down to Conversation Detail Options, Select Display mode Posts, NOT Activity, that selection of Posts will make the pages of discussions go to last post on last page rather than out of order that happens if you choose activity threads. Then be sure to go to bottom and select SAVE Changes in your profile options. You can then follow discussions by going through the pages, to the last page having latest responses. Then click on the other links Privacy, Notifications, to select viewing options,the forums get easier if you open all the tabs or links in your profile, user settings and select options. To join Super Member, pull down arrow next to login name, select User Settings and then click on tab/link at top that says Subscriptions.

Thank you for your patience and God Bless.

Diane S
https://carm.org/forum-rules
See more
See less

You Must Spill Your Own Blood for Forgiveness Mormons!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by quetzloc View Post

    Absolutely, I do notice that, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. However their silence is deafening. That said, if they did renounce it, what then? This then begs the following question: why don't they remove the offensive doctrine from every text, record, speech, etc? Aside from the obvious that it would be spurning whoever taught the false doctrine at the time, which hits multiple major leaders, but it would also leave gaping holes in classic important works. It would be like removing Deuteronomy because some are offended by the laws it contains.


    I'd also like to know if they believe Jesus lied to the thief on the cross when He said he would be in heaven that day, since thieves can't be saved until their sins are redeemed through works.... that guy wasn't coming off that cross until he died, thus no chance to redeem himself.


    Spencer Kimball says Jesus lied, since they hadn't repented after works. (for context, read p 160-170...)

    Spencer Kimball. tMoF, p 166. “Another mistaken idea is that the thief on the cross was forgiven of his sins when the dying Christ answered “Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.”(luke 23:43)These men on the cross were thieves. How could the Lord forgive a malefactor? They had broken laws…We may be sure that the Savior’s instructions to the thief on the cross were comparable to his instructions to the woman caught in adultery: “go your way and transform yourself and repent.”
    I'd also like to know if they believe Jesus lied to the thief on the cross when He said he would be in heaven that day, since thieves can't be saved until their sins are redeemed through works.... that guy wasn't coming off that cross until he died, thus no chance to redeem himself.====quetzloc

    Once again---you are pretending you are the gatekeepers to heaven.

    That role belongs to Christ as the Way to the Father [John 14:6]--not the Mormon church as another way.


    Spencer Kimball says Jesus lied, since they hadn't repented after works. (for context, read p 160-170...)----quetzloc
    Say what? a prophet in your Chruch very arrogantly tells you that Jesus lied and you are still willing to follow him?

    The dark underbelly of the Mormon Chruch becomes more apparent each day

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by jamesone5 View Post




      Once again---you are pretending you are the gatekeepers to heaven.

      That role belongs to Christ as the Way to the Father [John 14:6]--not the Mormon church as another way.




      Say what? a prophet in your Chruch very arrogantly tells you that Jesus lied and you are still willing to follow him?

      The dark underbelly of the Mormon Chruch becomes more apparent each day
      Might I suggest you reread my entire commentary... I think you misunderstood what I was saying; to say the least, by delivering incriminating evidence against Kimball, I was not defending him. Nor do I follow his rock-in-hat wizard... er, seer.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by jamesone5 View Post

        What you think I repeated the whole thing verbatim?

        A statement with a question mark behind it, is a clear giveaway--like this:




        You have not told me how you equate a Chruch mandate with a personal decision.

        Just to be very clear--I will ask you the question again.
        Sir, allow me to elucidate, so that you have a complete understanding of what I meant.


        Only the individual can determine, after looking back at their life since their original baptism, whether or not they have strayed from following Christ, and wish to use a second baptism as the outward evidence to their community of the rededication and commitment of their life to the Lord.

        A LDS leader does not hold the 'keys to the kingdom', nor do they hold any spiritual sway, as to whether or not anyone else must be rebaptized. that is not their role. The need for a human intercessor (the lone high priest) was removed by Christ when He died. Mormons, starting with Brigham Young demanding mass baptism in Utah, created a non-biblical belief system.

        Do you now understand?

        My original comment was highlighting the difference between the Christian belief of a personal decision, as stated in my original addition to your commentary. I was not disagreeing with you, but further cementing your statement. You misconstrued my original comment as somehow being an affirmation for the LDS viewpoint, which it isn't.

        For as you said: Their so-called authority was not all that authoritative as it seems.

        Kings to you, so how about we bury this hatchet?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by quetzloc View Post

          Sir, allow me to elucidate, so that you have a complete understanding of what I meant.


          Only the individual can determine, after looking back at their life since their original baptism, whether or not they have strayed from following Christ, and wish to use a second baptism as the outward evidence to their community of the rededication and commitment of their life to the Lord.

          A LDS leader does not hold the 'keys to the kingdom', nor do they hold any spiritual sway, as to whether or not anyone else must be rebaptized. that is not their role. The need for a human intercessor (the lone high priest) was removed by Christ when He died. Mormons, starting with Brigham Young demanding mass baptism in Utah, created a non-biblical belief system.

          Do you now understand?

          My original comment was highlighting the difference between the Christian belief of a personal decision, as stated in my original addition to your commentary. I was not disagreeing with you, but further cementing your statement. You misconstrued my original comment as somehow being an affirmation for the LDS viewpoint, which it isn't.

          For as you said: Their so-called authority was not all that authoritative as it seems.

          Kings to you, so how about we bury this hatchet?
          I have this really, really cool idea...
          Tell me what you think of it, please?

          How about we let God be God. He's had a lot more practice at it than any of us has....and, so far, He's done a way better job than we ever could....

          Just a suggestion...

          But, as for me and my house....


          We will serve the Lord.


          Oh, and btw.....this is not aimed at you specifically...but at every single one of us. Me, included...

          God Who was made flesh for me and nailed upon a lonely tree
          What gift can I bring that would suffice to repay such great sacrifice?
          All that I am I lay at Your throne. Make me, Lord, Your very Own.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by quetzloc View Post

            Might I suggest you reread my entire commentary... I think you misunderstood what I was saying; to say the least, by delivering incriminating evidence against Kimball, I was not defending him. Nor do I follow his rock-in-hat wizard... er, seer.
            Spencer Kimball says Jesus lied, since they hadn't repented after works. (for context, read p 160-170...)----quetzloc
            I read the commentary but this sums up what you think of Jesus. That cat;s out of the bag so to speak.

            You think JESUS LIED.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by jamesone5 View Post



              I read the commentary but this sums up what you think of Jesus. That cat;s out of the bag so to speak.

              You think JESUS LIED.
              Ever hear of the phrase 'soda straw situational awareness'? You are so stuck on an incorrect perception that you truly are missing the big picture. Or, to put it more bluntly, you are wrong in claiming I said Jesus lied.

              Case in point, you obviously missed the paragraph before where you start quoting, where I set up the question as to whether or not MORMONS believe Spencer Kimball was correct:

              "I'd also like to know if they believe Jesus lied to the thief on the cross when He said he would be in heaven that day, since thieves can't be saved until their sins are redeemed through works.... that guy wasn't coming off that cross until he died, thus no chance to redeem himself"

              This question was then followed up by citing where Kimball makes the claim that Jesus lied:

              "Spencer Kimball. tMoF, p 166. “Another mistaken idea is that the thief on the cross was forgiven of his sins when the dying Christ answered “Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.”(luke 23:43)These men on the cross were thieves. How could the Lord forgive a malefactor? They had broken laws…We may be sure that the Savior’s instructions to the thief on the cross were comparable to his instructions to the woman caught in adultery: “go your way and transform yourself and repent.”

              What part of "Spencer Kimball (not Quetzloc) said Jesus lied" are you unable to comprehend? I am not Spencer Kimball. Ergo, you foolishly continue to incorrectly assume a false line of thinking.
              Last edited by quetzloc; 07-10-18, 12:25 PM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by quetzloc View Post

                Ever hear of the phrase 'soda straw situational awareness'? You are so stuck on an incorrect perception that you truly are missing the big picture. Or, to put it more bluntly, you are wrong in claiming I said Jesus lied.

                Case in point, you obviously missed the paragraph before where you start quoting, where I set up the question as to whether or not MORMONS believe Spencer Kimball was correct:

                "I'd also like to know if they believe Jesus lied to the thief on the cross when He said he would be in heaven that day, since thieves can't be saved until their sins are redeemed through works.... that guy wasn't coming off that cross until he died, thus no chance to redeem himself"

                This question was then followed up by citing where Kimball makes the claim that Jesus lied:

                "Spencer Kimball. tMoF, p 166. “Another mistaken idea is that the thief on the cross was forgiven of his sins when the dying Christ answered “Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.”(luke 23:43)These men on the cross were thieves. How could the Lord forgive a malefactor? They had broken laws…We may be sure that the Savior’s instructions to the thief on the cross were comparable to his instructions to the woman caught in adultery: “go your way and transform yourself and repent.”

                What part of "Spencer Kimball (not Quetzloc) said Jesus lied" are you unable to comprehend? I am not Spencer Kimball. Ergo, you foolishly continue to incorrectly assume a false line of thinking.
                Why then, did you use this statement as part of you evidence if you don;t in part agree with him?

                Spencer Kimball says Jesus lied, since they hadn't repented after works. (for context, read p 160-170...)----quetzloc
                It seems that you cannot get beyond the question of "was the thief beside Jesus on the Cross Saved?"

                Are you taking the Power of Christ to save a lost sinner from Him?

                I solidly Believe He was-----as Jesus said this"

                Luke 23:43 {NKJV}

                And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

                Case closed from Christ's very words.

                You or you prophet have to make the case that Jesus lied because you are trying to find hidden meanings in what Christ DID NOT SAY to support your Mormon construct

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by jamesone5 View Post

                  Why then, did you use this statement as part of you evidence if you don;t in part agree with him?



                  It seems that you cannot get beyond the question of "was the thief beside Jesus on the Cross Saved?"

                  Are you taking the Power of Christ to save a lost sinner from Him?

                  I solidly Believe He was-----as Jesus said this"

                  Luke 23:43 {NKJV}

                  And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

                  Case closed from Christ's very words.

                  You or you prophet have to make the case that Jesus lied because you are trying to find hidden meanings in what Christ DID NOT SAY to support your Mormon construct
                  You really don't get it, do you? This is my final attempt to explain your multiple misguided responses.

                  I agree with you on that Christ spoke the truth on the Cross. Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth?

                  Allow me to explain to you how accusations with evidence work: if you are going to charge someone with believing something, it is good practice to also include the evidence backing up your statement. That is what I did. I asserted a statement about Kimball, then included the evidence from his book validating my claim; if you notice, no Mormon has chimed in to counter my claim, however you have had a heyday of using the opposite technique: accusations without evidence, with an application of misconstruing my words. Notice the difference?
                  Last edited by quetzloc; 07-10-18, 01:52 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by quetzloc View Post

                    Absolutely, I do notice that, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. However their silence is deafening. That said, if they did renounce it, what then? This then begs the following question: why don't they remove the offensive doctrine from every text, record, speech, etc? Aside from the obvious that it would be spurning whoever taught the false doctrine at the time, which hits multiple major leaders, but it would also leave gaping holes in classic important works. It would be like removing Deuteronomy because some are offended by the laws it contains.


                    I'd also like to know if they believe Jesus lied to the thief on the cross when He said he would be in heaven that day, since thieves can't be saved until their sins are redeemed through works.... that guy wasn't coming off that cross until he died, thus no chance to redeem himself.


                    Spencer Kimball says Jesus lied, since they hadn't repented after works. (for context, read p 160-170...)

                    Spencer Kimball. tMoF, p 166. “Another mistaken idea is that the thief on the cross was forgiven of his sins when the dying Christ answered “Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.”(luke 23:43)These men on the cross were thieves. How could the Lord forgive a malefactor? They had broken laws…We may be sure that the Savior’s instructions to the thief on the cross were comparable to his instructions to the woman caught in adultery: “go your way and transform yourself and repent.”
                    I hadn't realized this, but it is blatantly evil to say there was no repentance, when the Good thief turned to Christ. It is a lie of Satan.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

                      I hadn't realized this, but it is blatantly evil to say there was no repentance, when the Good thief turned to Christ. It is a lie of Satan.
                      yeah, Kimballs book is quite eye-opening into his disgust for the Biblical version of Christ.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Catherine Aurelia View Post

                        I hadn't realized this, but it is blatantly evil to say there was no repentance, when the Good thief turned to Christ. It is a lie of Satan.
                        Wouldn't it be a lie of Satan to say that a man had repented if that man really hadn't repented?

                        And is "good thief" a real thing? Doesn't the bible say that there is no such thing? (There is none good etc.)
                        To antis, is O. C.'s brother a good thief because what he steals feeds the jihad against us LDS people?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by jamesone5 View Post

                          Why then, did you use this statement as part of you evidence if you don;t in part agree with him?



                          It seems that you cannot get beyond the question of "was the thief beside Jesus on the Cross Saved?"

                          Are you taking the Power of Christ to save a lost sinner from Him?

                          I solidly Believe He was-----as Jesus said this"

                          Luke 23:43 {NKJV}

                          And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

                          Case closed from Christ's very words.

                          You or you prophet have to make the case that Jesus lied because you are trying to find hidden meanings in what Christ DID NOT SAY to support your Mormon construct
                          jamesone5... I dont think quetzloc is mormon. There may be some misunderstanding there.
                          ~ There is life after mormonism, and it's good! Just stay close to Christ.
                          ~ You can't follow Christ and false prophets at the same time.
                          ~ "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Magdalena View Post

                            jamesone5... I dont think quetzloc is mormon. There may be some misunderstanding there.
                            I don't think so, either. nt
                            "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                            "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                            “It’s easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain."
                            "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                            "If the truth hurts--then it is working."--anonymous

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Magdalena View Post

                              jamesone5... I dont think quetzloc is mormon. There may be some misunderstanding there.
                              Understatement of the week nominee right there....

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by NRA-Jeff
                                People who are extremist antiMormons probably HAVE forgotten that:

                                1. The murders didn't take place in the temple.
                                2. The murders were committed by a member of the REORGANIZED LDS Church--now called the Community of Christ.
                                3. That church is recognized as a CHRISTIAN church by the National Council of Churches, which the Episcopalian church is also a member of--so are Baptist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, and Methodist churches.
                                4. This is a transparent, sleazy attempt to smear the LDS church and its members, who had NOTHING to do with those murders.



                                Death stalked Michael Servetus--"death" in the form of the founder of your TULIP cult's soteriology..

                                (BTW, I used the word "extremist" in this post, so you gotta keep your promise....).
                                Only the ultra-liberal ELCA church is a member--the LCMS is not. Just an FYI.
                                "I am tired of being treated like a mushroom--they keep me in the dark and feed me manure!" (reasons why a Mormon was leaving the LDS church)
                                "What people don't realize is how much religion costs. They think faith is a big electric blanket, when of course, it is the cross."--Flannery O'Connor
                                “It’s easy to fool a man, but nearly impossible to convince him he's been fooled. --Mark Twain."
                                "I am a Missouri Synod Lutheran--NOT REFORMED/CALVINIST. PLEASE learn the difference."
                                "If the truth hurts--then it is working."--anonymous

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X